So... what else can we say about Snoopy 50?

[mmaggi]

The reason why we can't get a Daytona is simple: Rolex can't make that many to meet demand. That's my opinion.

If you guys want to believe that Rolex or Omega purposely pull back the # they want to produce, fine.

[Ringhio]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

The reason why we can't get a Daytona is simple: Rolex can't make that many to meet demand. That's my opinion.

If you guys want to believe that Rolex or Omega purposely pull back the # they want to produce, fine.

Man, they don't give them away!
They have them... it's just that they are using them to move other pieces and to please people that are spending big money.
of course they dont have 200 in the safe. But they have 2.
Do you think they put them on display and they sell them to the first person that is entering in the store?
They are placing the references to selected people creating the hype and the secondary market.

When it was the last time you took a walk on 47th street?
Please go. See how few of them are produced :)

[mmaggi]

I don't have to go on 47th street to see USED Rolexes. The used market tells us the demand for anything Rolex is unreal. People buy them! They don't care.

Again... the economic world is simple: Supply & Demand. And right now the demand is unreal for anything Rolex.

We'll see if this holds true for the Snoopy-3. Omega will produce what they want to produce. They will not hold back production. If the demand is there it will go up in price on the greys. If not, then prices will stay put if not come down.

We'll see.

[Ringhio]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

I don't have to go on 47th street to see USED Rolexes. The used market tells us the demand for anything Rolex is unreal. People buy them! They don't care.

They are actually New in the box, not used. Some of them are flipped in less than one week from the purchase. It's to tell you that is not a production issue, it's actually the fact that AD are not really selling to the general customer.

On all the other points, I agree with you.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Ringhio

Let’s put it this way: the focus is not strictly on the number, it’s on demand and offer in terms of availability.
Let say they can produce 10.000 in one year (although they cannot because they don’t have the means to go over 2000 at the moment), and they send each boutique 20 pieces per month (thing that they will never do, but... we are doing an hyperbole here).
Do you think that the directive form Omega HQ would be: put the 20 Snoopy on display? Or they will keep it in the safe, and distribute them little by little?
When you walk in Wempe on 5th ave how many Batman do you see?
Do you think they don’t have at least 2 in the safe ready for the high rollers?
How many Daytona white face they have in the safe?
I bet they have at least 2 or 3 per every hot reference.
You just don’t see them.
Then you go few blocks down on 47th street, and all the hot references are there in display, everywhere!

This is how the game is played, nobody knows how many they are making. They are making these difficult to get. The demand stays high. The value is retained.

It’s so unrealistic that Omega will flood the market that I don’t consider that an hypothesis anymore.
If I’m wrong my Snoopy will lose 20% of his value in about 2 years.
I’m ok with this bet. I like the reference and paying market price at the moment.

Last time I spoke to my contact at WF they had 105 white dial Daytona's in stock.

[BradSomrak]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Do you know why none of us can walk into a Rolex AD and buy a Daytona or Sub or GMT? Because Rolex isn't capable of meeting the demand. They're not. And they're not interested in putting up more factories, hiring more workers to meet the demand. Why?
Because there's RISK when expanding a business. ALOT OF RISK. It's that simple.

I could not disagree with this more.

In 2018, Thierry Stern, Patek’s President, said, in a published interview, “I have to be very tough on the quantity [of steel watches]. I don’t want steel taking over the lead in the whole collection.” He further elaborated, “Tomorrow, if I suddenly decide to produce 40,000 watches in steel, it’s over.....IWC was producing gold watches. Then they had problems, and they fabricated everything in steel. They tried to come back to gold, and they could never do it. Once you lower the price with steel, it is very hard to come back. So, I don’t want this with Patek.”

This has NOTHING to do with production capabilities. None. Zero. Patek, if they truly wanted, could ramp up production of their steel watches. They are making a conscious decision to restrict steel. For very specific reasons that have ZERO to do with factory capabilities.

Rolex is, similarly, squeezing its steel market. It has nothing to do with risk. It has everything to do with precious metals and brand placement.

Omega is going to follow suit, as much as it can, at least, and it will have nothing to do with factory/production capabilities.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion; however, based on some rather open and honest statements from company execs, Stern most specifically, it is just not accurate.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

The reason why we can't get a Daytona is simple: Rolex can't make that many to meet demand. That's my opinion.

If you guys want to believe that Rolex or Omega purposely pull back the # they want to produce, fine.

I do agree and think that it’s expensive to tool up and ramp up production, and something Rolex does well is not “overproduce” to meet a forecasted demand that can suddenly switch. A lot of watch companies in 2008 had a horrible time with overstocked watches at ADs that sat for a long time when demand plummeted.

With that said, Rolex has consciously decided to not increase production in any way close to demand for the Daytona. When you say that “Rolex can’t make that many to meet demand”, I think it’s a true statement, they have decided not to ramp up production even though they know demand is likely 5x compared to supply, and it’s been that way for over 10 years on the Daytona. They choose not to produce more. It creates a halo around the brand.

Patek’s CEO said it best in an interview with Hodinkee a few years ago. Rolex is the same. Omega will follow where they can, which is the Snoopy line 100%. There isn’t a hotter Omega in the last decade.

Two key things Patek’s CEO said:

“And again, is it something I'm willing to do? No, because I know that if we are overproducing, it's going to also be dangerous, dangerous for me in terms of quality, and maybe dangerous for the client, also because the value of the watch may decrease. And this is not what I'm willing to do, and this is not what you are willing to accept as a client.

If you buy a Patek Phillipe, value has to stay there where it is. And maybe even increase, depending on the model, of course. “

“Yes, of course. It's trendy, it's rare, it's less expensive ... I have seen yellow gold, white gold, platinum, all are popular at different times, and now it is the steel version – fine, and I like it also. But there's some limit that I cannot go over, so production will always stay limited for steel. Especially with Patek.”


https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/a-...-thierry-stern


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by BradSomrak

I could not disagree with this more.

In 2018, Thierry Stern, Patek’s President, said, in a published interview, “I have to be very tough on the quantity [of steel watches]. I don’t want steel taking over the lead in the whole collection.” He further elaborated, “Tomorrow, if I suddenly decide to produce 40,000 watches in steel, it’s over.....IWC was producing gold watches. Then they had problems, and they fabricated everything in steel. They tried to come back to gold, and they could never do it. Once you lower the price with steel, it is very hard to come back. So, I don’t want this with Patek.”

This has NOTHING to do with production capabilities. None. Zero. Patek, if they truly wanted, could ramp up production of their steel watches. They are making a conscious decision to restrict steel. For very specific reasons that have ZERO to do with factory capabilities.

Rolex is, similarly, squeezing its steel market. It has nothing to do with risk. It has everything to do with precious metals and brand placement.

Omega is going to follow suit, as much as it can, at least, and it will have nothing to do with factory/production capabilities.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion; however, based on some rather open and honest statements from company execs, Stern most specifically, it is just not accurate.

Lol you and me Brad

[BradSomrak]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

Lol you and me Brad

I’m glad you added the line - which is really THE LINE, when you think about it - “value has to stay where it is.”

That’s what is the driving force. If you increase production to meet demand......the value of the item drops. Because you will have more supply than demand at any given period of time.

This is not that complicated, really.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by BradSomrak

I’m glad you added the line - which is really THE LINE, when you think about it - “value has to stay where it is.”

That’s what is the driving force. If you increase production to meet demand......the value of the item drops. Because you will have more supply than demand at any given period of time.

This is not that complicated, really.

Curious what you got in the rest of your collection. Looks like we share the BLNR

[amanbra]

I love blue, snoopy and pandas, my deposits down, cannot wait to pick it up

[gregouille]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I love blue, snoopy and pandas, my deposits down, cannot wait to pick it up

Same here

[mmaggi]

Spoke to an Omega AD. He's on a 1st name basis with Omega President NA. This is what he told me regarding the Snoppy-3.

Go through an Omega Boutique. It's your best chance at getting one. These Snoopy's will be very, very limited. Production will be less than 2,000 pieces per year and that's because its only one watchmaker per watch. Now they may have 10 people working on these watches. But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like. It's one guy from start to finish. No assembly line. There are many limitations and it's not just with the movement but with the silver dial as well.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

[alpharulez]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Spoke to an Omega AD. He's on a 1st name basis with Omega President NA. This is what he told me regarding the Snoppy-3.

Go through an Omega Boutique. It's your best chance at getting one. These Snoopy's will be very, very limited. Production will be less than 2,000 pieces per year and that's because its only one watchmaker per watch. Now they may have 10 people working on these watches. But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like. It's one guy from start to finish. No assembly line. There are many limitations and it's not just with the movement but with the silver dial as well.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

Thanks for sharing. The extra automaton at the case back will slow production down compared to a standard 3861. So this is expected. Hope there is enough to go around for those who will actually wear it rather than flip or safe queen jt!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nicolamilton]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Spoke to an Omega AD. He's on a 1st name basis with Omega President NA. This is what he told me regarding the Snoppy-3.

Go through an Omega Boutique. It's your best chance at getting one. These Snoopy's will be very, very limited. Production will be less than 2,000 pieces per year and that's because its only one watchmaker per watch. Now they may have 10 people working on these watches. But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like. It's one guy from start to finish. No assembly line. There are many limitations and it's not just with the movement but with the silver dial as well.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

So 1 guy, 200 watches
Wow

[greengold]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Spoke to an Omega AD. He's on a 1st name basis with Omega President NA. This is what he told me regarding the Snoppy-3.

Go through an Omega Boutique. It's your best chance at getting one. These Snoopy's will be very, very limited. Production will be less than 2,000 pieces per year and that's because its only one watchmaker per watch. Now they may have 10 people working on these watches. But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like. It's one guy from start to finish. No assembly line. There are many limitations and it's not just with the movement but with the silver dial as well.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

I did frown at the people who were saying "I will wait until next year to get one perhaps even at a discount"

[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Spoke to an Omega AD. He's on a 1st name basis with Omega President NA. This is what he told me regarding the Snoppy-3.

Go through an Omega Boutique. It's your best chance at getting one. These Snoopy's will be very, very limited. Production will be less than 2,000 pieces per year and that's because its only one watchmaker per watch. Now they may have 10 people working on these watches. But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like. It's one guy from start to finish. No assembly line. There are many limitations and it's not just with the movement but with the silver dial as well.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

Are you sure your friend is not referring to the 321 which is well known to be 2000 movements a year with one watchmaker for each? There have been videos with omega high flyers in and none have mentioned this. The 321 yes. The snoopy no.

They knocked out 7000 Apollo 11’s with the 3861 in a year. That had a step dial, which I suspect was more difficult than the silver pie pan.

[Ringhio]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Spoke to an Omega AD. He's on a 1st name basis with Omega President NA. This is what he told me regarding the Snoppy-3.

Go through an Omega Boutique. It's your best chance at getting one. These Snoopy's will be very, very limited. Production will be less than 2,000 pieces per year and that's because its only one watchmaker per watch. Now they may have 10 people working on these watches. But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like. It's one guy from start to finish. No assembly line. There are many limitations and it's not just with the movement but with the silver dial as well.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

Lol...
I’ve been saying this for 2 weeks.
I’m glad you got the number expected confirmed at 2000 per year.
It seems we are on the same page now ;)

[BradSomrak]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

S But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

Especially when Omega is telling all of its watchmakers “go slow.”

[Ringhio]

Originally Posted by BradSomrak

Especially when Omega is telling all of its watchmakers “go slow.”

Yes, they will go super slow, hopefully. I would gladly wait two years to get my Snoopy rather than having a surplus in the market that will reduce the value of the reference.
Hopefully Omega will respect the clients adopting the right policy.

mmaggi, you have another option, if you really want to get a Snoopy get in contact with a OB in Europe, lists were officially open till few days ago, and probably they are still taking names.
In Europe you can get on the official list even without deposit, although I would recommend giving the 20%.

[alpharulez]

Btw I just realised my wait for the watch has probably increased by a month due to the newly announced UK lockdown!

Top (nearly) of the list at an OB here with deposit down. Fingers crossed.

So if I don’t get the call by Wednesday then it will only happen in December assuming Omega’s supply chain has kept up with other global/Swiss lockdowns...

I know ... first world problems.

Keep safe everyone. That’s what matters!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[greengold]

Originally Posted by alpharulez

Btw I just realised my wait for the watch has probably increased by a month due to the newly announced UK lockdown!

Top (nearly) of the list at an OB here with deposit down. Fingers crossed.

So if I don’t get the call by Wednesday then it will only happen in December assuming Omega’s supply chain has kept up with other global/Swiss lockdowns...

I know ... first world problems.

Keep safe everyone. That’s what matters!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Interesting your UK OB took a deposit mine didnt and I am quietly confident I am top with lots of previous history plus phonecall asking if I wanted it

[alpharulez]

Originally Posted by greengold

Interesting your UK OB took a deposit mine didnt and I am quietly confident I am top with lots of previous history plus phonecall asking if I wanted it

Some UK OBs accepted deposits. Others just took name down. Not sure if that’s up to the franchise owner’s policies?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Spoke to an Omega AD. He's on a 1st name basis with Omega President NA. This is what he told me regarding the Snoppy-3.

Go through an Omega Boutique. It's your best chance at getting one. These Snoopy's will be very, very limited. Production will be less than 2,000 pieces per year and that's because its only one watchmaker per watch. Now they may have 10 people working on these watches. But the point is that they can't crank out as many as they like. It's one guy from start to finish. No assembly line. There are many limitations and it's not just with the movement but with the silver dial as well.

The boutiques will get the majority of the pieces even after the 1st wave. He thinks he will be lucky to get 10 pieces and he sells ALOT of Omegas.

Therefore my expectations are that my chances are slim & none at getting this piece. If you have a deposit down you will definitely get one. IF you have a great relationship with an AD where you purchased many watches from him/her, your chances are good at getting one. Otherwise chances are you won't. Whatever. Is what it is. I have my name with 2 boutiques. Not expecting anything.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. I have to say I’m very surprised about the 2000 per year, that’s the lowest number I’ve heard an AD or OB has mentioned.

I’ve heard 15% of worldwide allocation will go to the US, which is crazy if they will only make 2000 units a year. That means only 300 units for all of US. I know most OBs have deposits in the 20-40 range. Not sure how it’ll be possible for 30 US OBs to fulfill just what’s on deposit in the first year, let alone have any allocation for the ADs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mmaggi]

Guys... the # I was told is LESS than 2,000 per year. And make no mistake that this is guess.

[mmaggi]

Originally Posted by Stevec14

Are you sure your friend is not referring to the 321 which is well known to be 2000 movements a year with one watchmaker for each? There have been videos with omega high flyers in and none have mentioned this. The 321 yes. The snoopy no.

They knocked out 7000 Apollo 11’s with the 3861 in a year. That had a step dial, which I suspect was more difficult than the silver pie pan.

What he said was this: One watch maker to make the entire Snoopy-3 watch. From the movement, the dial, the assembly, the testing.... In other words: Not one person to make the movement, another person to make the dial, another person to assemble. ONE WATCH MAKER to make the entire watch.

Now there could be 10 watchmakers making Snoopy-3 watches. We don't know the exact #.

He told me its the same process that Omega uses to make the Apollo-11 50 and the Apollo 8 DSOM. And that's the reason why he can't get anymore Apollo 8 DSOM.

[greengold]

Originally Posted by alpharulez

Some UK OBs accepted deposits. Others just took name down. Not sure if that’s up to the franchise owner’s policies?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've been buying from three of the OBs in central london for years and never put a deposit for any as far as I was aware OBs cannot take deposits in UK as they are effectively guaranteeing you a piece if they do. ADs including mappin & webb, watches of Switzerland allowed you to purchase to watch in full paying £8250 the day after release meaning you are buying it then day after it now reads 'register your interest'
I HAVE got a £1000 deposit at my local AD and always had to put a deposit there but thats AD

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by Ringhio

They are actually New in the box, not used. Some of them are flipped in less than one week from the purchase. It's to tell you that is not a production issue, it's actually the fact that AD are not really selling to the general customer.

On all the other points, I agree with you.

It is a production issue. If they produced so many more then you don’t have the flipping and gray business. If they produced a ton then every AD would have them sitting in the case right next to all the other non attractive Rolex that are collecting dust. The ADs would be pushing them. They want to sell a watch and not just have some dude walk in, ask if they have any SS sport watches, they say no and the dude walks out.

The production is at a number to create this marketing machine that is Rolex. They don’t produce enough to stop this madness of flipping and the grays getting all of them before the rest. Supply and demand basic Econ 101

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

What he said was this: One watch maker to make the entire Snoopy-3 watch. From the movement, the dial, the assembly, the testing.... In other words: Not one person to make the movement, another person to make the dial, another person to assemble. ONE WATCH MAKER to make the entire watch.

I don't believe that to be true, it's simply not how such pieces are made.

[BradSomrak]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

He told me its the same process that Omega uses to make the Apollo-11 50 and the Apollo 8 DSOM. And that's the reason why he can't get anymore Apollo 8 DSOM.

What’s more likely, that Omega has trusted the success of all of its new watches to one man or woman, and that the Snoopy, the Apollo 8, the 321, etc., are all now dependent on 1 man hanging out in a watch room......

......or that it is simply following industry trend and restricting supply?

I know my vote.