Grönefeld Incoming!!!!!

[kunlun]

Ha, probably true, it's rare people change opinions, I suppose.

Dufour approved the finishing when FPJ brought him one of his current wristwatches.

I would say that claiming Mr. Journe is not a watchmaker because he now has watchmakers under him is a claim bordering on the absurd. Truly!

Love the Grönefeld, though!

[bigfatpauli]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Ha, probably true, it's rare people change opinions, I suppose.

Dufour approved the finishing when FPJ brought him one of his current wristwatches.

I would say that claiming Mr. Journe is not a watchmaker because he now has watchmakers under him is a claim bordering on the absurd. Truly!

Love the Grönefeld, though!

I did not say he isn't a watchmaker. I said he wasn't a watchmaker at FP. Journe - which is factually true. He does not sit at a watchmakers bench there.

I would love to read the article you are siting with Dufour's comments regarding the finishing of current production Journes. I look forward to seeing a link.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

I did not say he isn't a watchmaker. I said he wasn't a watchmaker at FP. Journe - which is factually true. He does not sit at a watchmakers bench there.

I would love to read the article you are siting with Dufour's comments regarding the finishing of current production Journes. I look forward to seeing a link.

Sure, I'm sorry you had trouble finding it. Internet searches can be hard if you're not used to them.

Here's a link: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/240/index.html


For further practice, please cite me the source of your claim that Mr. Journe never sits at a watchmaker's bench, preferably a statement from Mr. Journe himself, thanks! I'll look forward to seeing a link soon!

[bigfatpauli]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Sure, I'm sorry you had trouble finding it. Internet searches can be hard if you're not used to them.

Here's a link: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/240/index.html


For further practice, please cite me the source of your claim that Mr. Journe never sits at a watchmaker's bench, preferably a statement from Mr. Journe himself, thanks! I'll look forward to seeing a link soon!

No need to take a condescending tone: It is more a reflection on you, than I.

I was asking for the article where Dufour commented on the finishing quality of current production FP Journe watches, that you said exists. What you linked is an Odet examination of a Patek for the early 2000's. Perhaps that's why I didn't find it...

At the bottom there is a line, and I suppose this is what you are referencing:

"Philippe Dufour told me [Francois-Paul Journe] just the other day that my finishing quality is now good enough (laughter). I can do even better, but my production cost may increase by 3 times. I have no intention to make my collectors pay through their noses." ("The PuristS Interview Francois-Paul Journe", Sep03)"

The link the original article doesn't work and it doesn't seem to show up on Google. Another reason it couldn't be found.

This article was from 2003, just 4 years after he founded his name sake brand - hardly current production. It may have very well been before starting Journe that Dufour said this to Journe. We have no idea.

So it really isn't about current production Journe's at all...

It seems you can't find this supposed article either. Internet searches can indeed be tricky.

If you don't believe me that Journe doesn't sit at a watchmakers bench at his company, I suggest you pay them a visit and see his desk for yourself.

[WatchEater666]

I think you two are arguing semantics.

Journe is a skilled watchmaker turned entrepreneur. Yes, he could sit there and build watches by himself all day, or he could grow his business and hire excellent people who might be better at execution than him.

Personally, I don't really care who made my watch provided it's a great product for the money.

[kunlun]

The suggestion to visit the manufacture is certainly good advice.

Visiting Dufour and asking him about FPJ directly also would be fun.

As for the rest, I'm still waiting on a link.

[vandyologist]

Hey! You stole my thunder. Inspired by my buddy [mention]ChaseATX [/mention] I also have a Grönefeld incoming. It’s impossibly beautiful.

[ChaseATX]

Originally Posted by vandyologist

Hey! You stole my thunder. Inspired by my buddy [mention]ChaseATX [/mention] I also have a Grönefeld incoming. It’s impossibly beautiful.

Yes!!!!! Double Grönefeld landing!!!!! Great find !


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[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Grönefeld is also a horizontal manufacture, with the dials made by a third party and the movement designed by a third party.

I thought Gronefeld designed their movements, but did not produce them.

I just found an article:
"Since then, the relationship with Renaud et Papi has become a two-way street as Renaud et Papi supplies movement parts custom-made from Gronefeld designs to Bart and Tim. In fact, they are the only watchmakers who receive OEM parts from Renaud et Papi – all other customers receive only completed Renaud et Papi movements."

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/visit-g...h-manufacture/

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

I thought Gronefeld designed their movements, but did not produce them.

I just found an article:
"Since then, the relationship with Renaud et Papi has become a two-way street as Renaud et Papi supplies movement parts custom-made from Gronefeld designs to Bart and Tim. In fact, they are the only watchmakers who receive OEM parts from Renaud et Papi – all other customers receive only completed Renaud et Papi movements."

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/visit-g...h-manufacture/

You can't use ABtW as a reliable source.

https://deployant.com/review-gronefeld-1941-remontoire/

For the remontoire they asked Andreas Strehler to help.

The movement is developed by the Grönefeld brothers with the assistance from Andreas Strehler.

Remember, statements like these are always understated. People are not aware of the history of swiss watchmaking, so they tend to think that it's a big mark against a brand for outsourcing, when this was the norm.

On the contrary, it is instead a big positive when a watchmaker at the level of Journe can do highest level complications, but no negative mark when you have folks like Tim amd Bart working openly and honestly with dial, case, and movement manufacturers, plus complication experts like Strehler to make the watch that honors their family history of minding the town clock with a remontoire. The only issue is when it's hidden. Grönefeld is highly regarded among collectors whose evaluation I trust and when I held their watches, it was obvious why.

[benlee]

Big Congrats and great choice!

I have one myself and enjoy it.

[ChaseATX]

Originally Posted by benlee

Big Congrats and great choice!

I have one myself and enjoy it.

Lovely combo! The salmon dial works very well with this watch. Thanks for sharing!!!


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[Cozmopak]

Both of these newly acquired Gronefelds were ones that I considered purchasing myself. And sort of regret not doing so. Congrats for pulling the trigger!

[Collector2019]

Wholly molly what a trio you have ... congrats


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[rockdrock]

Originally Posted by vandyologist

Hey! You stole my thunder. Inspired by my buddy [mention]ChaseATX [/mention] I also have a Grönefeld incoming. It’s impossibly beautiful.

Nice! Great inspiration. Congrats!


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[MichaelFlash]

spectacular watch. I love Gronefeld and prefer it over FPJ on purely aesthetics.

[joli160]

Really beautiful watches, different league

[SearChart]

Congrats!

I know a few guys who work there and visited the atelier a few years ago, met the brothers Grönefeld. Cool brand

[christianj]

Stunning watches and congrats to all! I keep hoping they decide to offer some other dial colors on the Principia and then I will likely not be able to hold out any longer.

[Pongster]

How are you finding the remontoire complication, OP?

It seems to be one of the signature aspects of Gronefeld.

Am considering the Principia but am intrigued about the Remontoire.

Am actually puzzled by Hodinkee’s version. It’s a Remontoire but has a full dial (like the Principia).

[watchucallit]

When I ordered mine directly from the Brothers- they invited me to stop in to pick it up. I travel to Europe about 4x per year work related and did consider it. But my schedule is always so packed. I love the Remontoire... Can stare at it while in boring meetings.

[Heu]

Congrats!

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by watchucallit

When I ordered mine directly from the Brothers- they invited me to stop in to pick it up. I travel to Europe about 4x per year work related and did consider it. But my schedule is always so packed. I love the Remontoire... Can stare at it while in boring meetings.

What’s the feel of a remontoire? How different from a tourbillon?