Watch deal gone south with Robert Scott aka Survivor opinions sought...

[subtona]

Sad to have to bring to your attention a watch deal that has suffered a poor twist of circumstances, after attempting to resolve this for nearly two months with the seller, he has become exceedingly difficult to deal with.

The details:
-A price was negotiated and agreed upon by the seller and buyer.

-the watch was paid for in full in a bank transfer on May 28

-according to USPS tracking, the watch was shipped next day & insured via USPS (west coast to east coast) and documentation provided of same, the watch made it to the east coast but never made it out of the USPS main sorting facility. Ie the watch was never delivered to the buyer & did not even make it to the local delivery mailman.

-an insurance claim was filed by the seller with USPS on June 3.
According to the seller, the insurance claim is still unpaid.
USPS will not provide the buyer with any information.

-To date of this post, the seller has not issued any refund partial or other to the buyer and the watch has not arrived. The seller possesses full retail value of the watch (includes profit above his expense) + a USPS claim coming to him.
The buyer has neither the money nor the watch.

-seller has offered 50% of the paid value of the watch in a final take it or leave it attitude, 50% not only being far below the value of the watch but also not taking into account the value of the insurance claim. As i have explained to the seller he is trying to leverage this unfortunate situation into even greater profit for himself at an even greater loss to the buyer.

After hearing the myriad of misinterpretations of the sellers responsibilities from the seller, I seek the members opinions & support regarding the expected way of handling this situation, perhaps it will guide the sellers moral compass?

My offer to the seller has been great patience to this point, i have offered to accept half the money in an interim solution pending the final payment from USPS. this is imho more than fair but the seller remains defiant.

Of course if i expect too much, i encourage the members to sound off as well, perhaps it is me that has this all wrong?

[JUSTROLEXES]

Sorry to hear that Gus,
IMO you did everything you can by being kind to wait and allow enough time for this to be solved but at this point it is the seller's job to cover you the full amount and then he has to deal with the insurance on his own regardless if he gets paid or not or when...
the seller's job is to insurance a delivery to the buyer, and in unfortunate cases like this having a kind buyer that is willing to wait and work with the seller is a blessing but there is only so much you can do.
You paid, You waited and no package was delivered... The seller should send you a replacement watch, or issue a full refund and then take it on his own with the insurance....
a 50% payment is not acceptable but yet if the seller is not standing strong it might be a better option take something then Nothing...
I hope you guys work it out

[hdrazor251]

You are entitled to 100% refund or the watch. Anything less is completely unacceptable. You are approaching 2 months since the bank transfer. It's time for the seller to step up and fix the situation.

[Presa canary]

Originally Posted by justrolexes

Sorry to hear that Gus,
IMO you did everything you can by being kind to wait and allow enough time for this to be solved but at this point it is the seller's job to cover you the full amount and then he has to deal with the insurance on his own regardless if he gets paid or not or when...
the seller's job is to insurance a delivery to the buyer, and in unfortunate cases like this having a kind buyer that is willing to wait and work with the seller is a blessing but there is only so much you can do.
You paid, You waited and no package was delivered... The seller should send you a replacement watch, or issue a full refund and then take it on his own with the insurance....
a 50% payment is not acceptable but yet if the seller not standing strong it might be a better option then Zero...
I hope you guys work it out

This... Except the notion that you should tolerate a 50% payment. It's the sellers responsibily that you receive the watch as described. Anything else is a refund in full. Good luck, luckily this isn't a normal occurrence. Who's the seller btw?

[SohAIS]

You should get 100% funds back and the seller has to deal with USPS with a claim.

[1William]

The seller should refund the purchase price or send a watch that is comparable to the one purchased. While it is neither the buyer or sellers fault the seller should do the right thing and either deliver a watch or refund the money.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by sohail

you should get 100% funds back and the seller has to deal with usps with a claim.

^this^

[locutus49]

Since the seller filed the claim with USPS, he assumes full responsibility. Since you have no transparency into the claim status, you must assume the claim will be satisfied, and thus you must be satisfied by the seller. You should receive a full refund or replacement in kind. I would consider consulting with an attorney to review your options.

Above is my opinion and does not constitute legal advice. Best of Luck to OP.

[Cesium133]

I agree with the above posts. I've always operated under the belief that the buyer does not take ownership of the watch until it is in-hand. The seller maintains ownership until confirmation of delivery. The seller has the responsibility to ensure the watch arrives to the buyer or must refund 100% of the money. I'm amazed that a seller would offer 50% of the sale price, especially since the watch was insured. The seller should pay you back everything and then deal with insurance to recoup their losses IMHO. Sorry you're in this situation and I truly hope it works out for you. Keep us posted.

[WatchTimes]

A prompt full refund is the only acceptable solution.
Sellers like this need to be outed.

[gougy]

You payed for the item that seller never delivered - 100% refund. It is him who gets the claim process. I definitelly recommend the consultantion with attorney but would lead the conversation this way. Unfortunate situation but you are not the one who is to blaim (of course the delivery company but could it be that the seller wrote the adress wrong? etc.... )

[SohAIS]

As a matter of fact you have been too FAIR to wait 2 months for the seller to try to recoup his funds from USPS when is has nothing to do with you.

[T.S.Eliot]

Unfortunate to hear

Given the facts you stated i think you might be in one of the two scenarios:

1. The deal was a scam from start with collusion between seller and USPS insider.

2. The watch is lost or stollen from USPS.

Either way it does not look good given the long period passed. I think you should start a retaliation plan ASAP and I'm sure you will get a lot of responses when you decide to go to that direction.

[gt3pilot]

Seller needs to refund you the full amount at once. It's his claim with USPS. He did not fulfill he end of the deal by providing you the product you paid for. The fact that it was lost in shipping does not relieve him of his obligation.



-Scott B.

[jimmypark54]

seller should make u whole and deal with insurance in his own. sorry gus. not all the sellers here are like this

[HL65]

Originally Posted by justrolexes

Sorry to hear that Gus,
IMO you did everything you can by being kind to wait and allow enough time for this to be solved but at this point it is the seller's job to cover you the full amount and then he has to deal with the insurance on his own regardless if he gets paid or not or when...
the seller's job is to insurance a delivery to the buyer, and in unfortunate cases like this having a kind buyer that is willing to wait and work with the seller is a blessing but there is only so much you can do.
You paid, You waited and no package was delivered... The seller should send you a replacement watch, or issue a full refund and then take it on his own with the insurance....
a 50% payment is not acceptable but yet if the seller is not standing strong it might be a better option take something then Nothing...
I hope you guys work it out

This 100% as Tony stated. Anything less is 100% unacceptable. You should let the forum know who the seller is so he can be outed. Any seller who operates like this is not welcome here!

Sorry for your situation and I certainly hope he reads this and you get the PROPER resolution.

[77T]

Sad to hear of the lost package. A couple of thoughts -

First, about the claim standards. The USPS Rules & Regulations are complex and difficult to understand, even for an experienced shipper if he never had a lost package before.

Next, mistakes are made even by experienced USPS clerks who help him file the claim. It is impossible for the USPS to require that all of its employees be aware of and understand all of the published regulations.

BUT...This is why the burden is placed on the SHIPPER...

Lastly, the 50% offer raises my antenna about what the seller/shipper really insured value wise. One of the key points in a claim is proof of value. Your bank wire only proves what you sent him - he'll need to prove to USPS what the true value is by some independent source they'll accept.

You deserve your money - seller accepts the risks of online transaction and builds that into his business model. Sadly, though, there is no contract so hard to prevail in the court unless you can prove something sinister was done. The USPS lost the package since the tracking shows it got into their system.

Since we are in "Who's Who" I do respect your discretion in not naming the seller. However, it would be worthwhile for you to say if this is a TRF seller or not.

[subtona]

I would like to thank you all thus far for your thoughtful replies. Any insight to pursuing is also appreciated either here in the thread or in a PM
I have made the seller aware of his options and offered him the opportunity to make an effort both before I went to print and before this point were I will have to call him what he is, an out and out POS.

"Settle" as he puts it in his email reply is for half the full value of the watch, this came with a caveat and demand for a notarized letter releasing him of further liability ... While he collects the full value of the insurance plus the already paid price of the watch...


I recommend this thread be moved to the Watchout section.

Finally here is the latest email Robert Scott aka "Survivor" had sent me.

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Maybe the package was not insured after all and he lied to you?
This is the feeling I get as soon as I read this, he is just stalling to se if youll give up

[locutus49]

I will never do business with him. You may want to consider Paypal in the future. I realize sellers do not like it, but it protects buyers.

I am not an attorney, but I believe you had a contract of sorts. Especially if you have an email trail. Please consult an attorney. It will be worth the one time charge, if nothing else than to reassure you of your options.

[HL65]

Sadly this guy has little to no feedback and again should serve as a warning to anyone wanting to do business with anyone other than a well known seller with pages and pages of solid feedback. That is ALWAYS the common characteristic with transactions gone South. Sorry George and again this guy is not welcome to sell here and if he doesn't straighten it out soon he will be banned here for good. I will move to Watchout so others can be warned.

[subtona]

as much as i would like to respond to all of your posts, i am not in the frame of mind to do it now.
please know i very much appreciate them.

[Old Expat Beast]

Yeah, the onus is on the seller to get the watch to your front door. Anything less and it's his responsibility 100%.

[Fenster]

Originally Posted by sohail

As a matter of fact you have been too FAIR to wait 2 months for the seller to try to recoup his funds from USPS when is has nothing to do with you.

Sorry to read this OP, but you have every right on your side, to solve this the best way you can. Its like Sohail said yiu have been too Fair!

@Sohail, i have bought from you and i loved what i got! And i know that you tracked my watch from your door to my door everyday, and that you where informative every step of the way. For that i thank you very much! From Usa to Eu is a long way ;)

[Kringkily]

This is infuriating to read and how could a seller give those terms to a patient and understanding buyer. Shame on you Robert and give the man his funds he is rightfully owed. Lost packages are researched one week after it has gone missing. If the item is not found it is given a trace agent to research and can take up to two weeks. After that it maybe take another week or two to receive a check after it has been deemed lost. Two months the seller either didn't insurer the package at all or fully or received claim and sticking it to the poor buyer... Gluck OP...

[T. Ferguson]

I'm a buyer, not a seller, so this may be a bit biased but,

YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE THE WATCH.

That's the only relevant fact here to me. I can't imagine ordering something from Best Buy.com or Costco's website, not receive it, and they refuse to issue me a full refund knowing I didn't get the merchandise.

[mboverst]

George, I'm so sorry to hear about this situation. You're always a pleasure to deal with and truly one of the good guys.

As the posters above have said, you should have been given a full refund two months ago. I think it's pretty apparent the seller just does not have the funds to send you, more so than just not wanting to refund at all. I'm also under the suspicion he did not insure the package for the full amount, or for anything at all. I would ask for a receipt of some kind showing the insurance and matching tracking number, as well as proof he's filed a claim. I don't think (I hope at least) that this was an elaborate scam coordinated with USPS to take your money. 

Unfortunately, I think it's time to consult with an attorney at this point and view your options. His last statement saying you are unwilling to deal is absurd, and a red flag that this guy has no desire to make you whole. I would not accept 50% of the amount right now, as you are agreeing to a payment plan with no definite end date. I'm no lawyer, but I assume this would hurt your chances at a suit down the road if it comes to that. I would also inform the seller you will press charges and contact his local authorities. I would do this immediately before anymore time elapses. You've been extremely patient and understanding while giving him more than enough time to figure the situation out. If he indeed just does not have the funds to refund you at the time, this will hopefully jump start him into scrapping the funds together as any honest individual would not want the cops breathing down their neck. I would do this before waiting on a lawyer to get back to you, you have every right to believe at this point that he is stealing from you. Again, I'm no lawyer but you made a contract with the seller and paid for goods that were not delivered. Knowing your taste in watches, I'm assuming the transaction amount is enough to get the authorities attention. From experience, I would not waste my time with the ic3.gov form, as you will never hear anything back. You have to go to his local police where the crime actually took place and have a detective assigned. It will take a lot of phone calls and even more time, but it's the only way to get someone to work with you. Even if they blow you off or say it's not a definite crime yet, etc, you will at least have a filed police report that will help you with any lawsuit you bring.

Anyway, if I can be of any assistance, feel free to call. You have my number and I'm always here to lend a hand. I've been in your end of this situation before, and I have had to take action to be made whole. 

Best of luck, and keep us updated!

Matt

[AK797]

Buyer should not have to wait for the insurers to settle. All the trusted sellers I have spoken to have said insurance is their responsibility and a refund is given once the watch has been lost and they chase up the insurance.

[drifter01]

Sounds like a scam from the start. As for the shipment being is USPS system...this may not be true. I had a scam like that w while back ( for much less money I'm sure ) adn USPS said it was accepted and passed through the initial sorting and even showed it in route, yet it had never been shipped. Just because it shows up on USPS doesn't mean it really was shipped. The offer of 50% makes me think scam even more. Yeah...he has watch, 50% of purchese price as well as 100% in insurance payment! Then he does it again to someone else...it adds up to a lot of money after a short while.
My opinion,...talk to a lawyer!

[Lgear080]

Wow... I'm sorry about your situation.

Let me be clear... This is a scam.

File a police report.

You've been far too lenient to date.
Do this ASAP.