Watch deal gone south with Robert Scott aka Survivor opinions sought...

[Old Expat Beast]

And you have been lurking around here under this username since July 2, before your other username was banned?

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Troy Boy

I thought I would wait until now to address the situation that has been going on for 2 months. My response will be to the point, with no extra personal feelings towards George/Gus or other members of the Forum........just the facts Agree or disagree.......obviously, your choice but this is exactly what transpired......

1.A deal was agreed upon to sell my "A' Serial SD4000 to George for $6750, shipping and insurance included.

2. It should be pointed out that we did have a short discussion about how to ship......I mentioned to him, during our negotiations, that I had just finished a deal for my Zenith Daytona, with a fellow in the DC area and I used Registered Mail......although it can take quite a bit longer, it is the safest way to ship and senders can insure for up to $25,000. George was anxious for the watch, so I shipped, using a fairly new service USPS had started called Priority Express.....guaranteed overnight, $5,000 Maximum Insurance. Emailed copies of all receipts to George, so he could track as well.

3. As I have never had a problem before shipping a watch, I didn't bother checking on the package. 2 or 3 days after shipping the item, I got an email from George stating the package had not arrived. I immediately went on USPS website to track the package and sure enough, the package had made it to NYC, left a sorting facility in NYC and was in route to the local Post Office and that's where the fun begins. The package never arrived to the Post Office, a Domestic Research Claim was filed. Unfortunately, it was Friday and not much was going to happen over the weekend although I did call the customer service line numerous times to check if anything new had happened. George also informed me that he went to the local Post Office at least 3 times to check.

4.Now that the Domestic Research Claim was filed, we had to give the Post Office 7 days to investigate. If the package was not found, I could file an Insurance Claim. If it was found, obviously, they would deliver. As we all know, the package was not found.

5.At the 7 day mark, I filed an insurance claim, copies of which were sent to George. Now, here's where our first issue came up..........upon receiving the confirmation of the submitted claim, there was a notation at the top stating that the maximum reimbursement on this claim would only be $1,000, even though my receipt and the claim form itself acknowledged my package was in fact insured for $5,000. George and I were both dumbfounded but there is no communication with the department that handles the Insurance for USPS.........you wait at least 30 days before you receive an email or letter response. I emailed George every drop of paperwork along the way.

6. As a result of this issue/question as to how much in fact USPS was reimbursing, as well as George beginning to get impatient with the process, I asked George to wait until the issue was resolved with USPS before I reimbursed him. George asked for half the money immediately and the balance once it was resolved. I told him I was not comfortable leaving an open ended resolution and would prefer to settle with him upfront if he could not wait out the process. Without going into too much detail, as it got pretty nasty, George rejected my offers, I rejected his but always with me stating to him that as soon as the USPS money arrives, I will send it to him and we'll discuss how to handle the rest. He would have none of it.

7. In the meanitime, after about 30 days, USPS sent a letter to me, requesting some additional paperwork. I sent it back immediately but unfortunately, the 30 day time clock started again. Updates were sent to George fairly regularly, showing the status of the claim as "pending".

8. Finally, last Friday, the claim showed approved and on Monday, arrived a check for $5,000. Naturally, I was elated that USPS came through..................I sent a copy of the check to George. George, still angry by the fact that I had not sent him money by now, acted not all that interested. Regardless, I sent out the check last night and told him that we can now discuss the balance. He doesn't want to talk to me as I have requested that he apologize if he has in fact made this situation appear to TRF and others as if it was some masterminded plan.. He's not interested but I'm sure we'll get there.

That's it in a nutshell......sure there were a lot of nasty emails and name calling along the way but, as I told him, I did exactly what I said I would do from Day 1. I understand some of you may disagree with how I handled it..........that's your perogative.

If you want to be a trusted seller on here ( highly unlikely) you refund the money immediately. Then you do your insurance process. The rest is all smoke and mirrors.

[briboxer]

Sorry for your frustrations and loss.
There is no doubt that you made a deal to purchase and receive said item. The failure of delivery is 100% on the seller. No matter what the reason. You were patient to give "USPS" the benefit of the doubt, and hope that the package would arrive shortly.
Since it didn't appear that it was arriving any time soon, the seller should have issued a refund, and pursued the loss claim on his own. No one would have been out anything once the claim was paid.
On a USPS side note???I sent a package with them and it never arrived. Even with their tracking system of knowing where it made contact in their facilities, it still mysteriously never materialized. LAME!!!

[Rzani]

Originally Posted by Troy Boy

I thought I would wait until now to address the situation that has been going on for 2 months. My response will be to the point, with no extra personal feelings towards George/Gus or other members of the Forum........just the facts Agree or disagree.......obviously, your choice but this is exactly what transpired......

1.A deal was agreed upon to sell my "A' Serial SD4000 to George for $6750, shipping and insurance included.

2. It should be pointed out that we did have a short discussion about how to ship......I mentioned to him, during our negotiations, that I had just finished a deal for my Zenith Daytona, with a fellow in the DC area and I used Registered Mail......although it can take quite a bit longer, it is the safest way to ship and senders can insure for up to $25,000. George was anxious for the watch, so I shipped, using a fairly new service USPS had started called Priority Express.....guaranteed overnight, $5,000 Maximum Insurance. Emailed copies of all receipts to George, so he could track as well.

3. As I have never had a problem before shipping a watch, I didn't bother checking on the package. 2 or 3 days after shipping the item, I got an email from George stating the package had not arrived. I immediately went on USPS website to track the package and sure enough, the package had made it to NYC, left a sorting facility in NYC and was in route to the local Post Office and that's where the fun begins. The package never arrived to the Post Office, a Domestic Research Claim was filed. Unfortunately, it was Friday and not much was going to happen over the weekend although I did call the customer service line numerous times to check if anything new had happened. George also informed me that he went to the local Post Office at least 3 times to check.

4.Now that the Domestic Research Claim was filed, we had to give the Post Office 7 days to investigate. If the package was not found, I could file an Insurance Claim. If it was found, obviously, they would deliver. As we all know, the package was not found.

5.At the 7 day mark, I filed an insurance claim, copies of which were sent to George. Now, here's where our first issue came up..........upon receiving the confirmation of the submitted claim, there was a notation at the top stating that the maximum reimbursement on this claim would only be $1,000, even though my receipt and the claim form itself acknowledged my package was in fact insured for $5,000. George and I were both dumbfounded but there is no communication with the department that handles the Insurance for USPS.........you wait at least 30 days before you receive an email or letter response. I emailed George every drop of paperwork along the way.

6. As a result of this issue/question as to how much in fact USPS was reimbursing, as well as George beginning to get impatient with the process, I asked George to wait until the issue was resolved with USPS before I reimbursed him. George asked for half the money immediately and the balance once it was resolved. I told him I was not comfortable leaving an open ended resolution and would prefer to settle with him upfront if he could not wait out the process. Without going into too much detail, as it got pretty nasty, George rejected my offers, I rejected his but always with me stating to him that as soon as the USPS money arrives, I will send it to him and we'll discuss how to handle the rest. He would have none of it.

7. In the meanitime, after about 30 days, USPS sent a letter to me, requesting some additional paperwork. I sent it back immediately but unfortunately, the 30 day time clock started again. Updates were sent to George fairly regularly, showing the status of the claim as "pending".

8. Finally, last Friday, the claim showed approved and on Monday, arrived a check for $5,000. Naturally, I was elated that USPS came through..................I sent a copy of the check to George. George, still angry by the fact that I had not sent him money by now, acted not all that interested. Regardless, I sent out the check last night and told him that we can now discuss the balance. He doesn't want to talk to me as I have requested that he apologize if he has in fact made this situation appear to TRF and others as if it was some masterminded plan.. He's not interested but I'm sure we'll get there.

That's it in a nutshell......sure there were a lot of nasty emails and name calling along the way but, as I told him, I did exactly what I said I would do from Day 1. I understand some of you may disagree with how I handled it..........that's your perogative.

Wow, that is a lot of justification for doing the wrong thing. Just because you kept him in the loop and documented the whole process doesn't make the process right.

Bottom line is you sold something that never made it to the buyer. You should have refunded his money in full as soon as it was apparent that the watch was not going to arrive.

[Welshwatchman]

There are too many bloody names going on.

George, Gus, Robert Scott, Robert Young, Barstoolman (I remember that member), Survivor (ha ha look at me I'm back in an alias account), Troy Boy (Trojan Horse, I'm so clever).

If correct, Gus/George will get back $5,000 from $6750.

Robert Scott/Young shouldn't be selling anything IMO, he can't handle it and seemingly can't afford to do the honourable thing.

If it were me (apart from the unlikeliness of dealing with such a person to start with), I'd take the deal and write off the $1750 as "lesson learned, don't deal with jerks" tax. There again, I'd possibly throw a lot of cash at it to make him pay, depending on how pissed off I felt.

[Rootbeer]

It's not fair to make the (non-)recipient wait for reimbursement from an insurance claim as long as there is some certainty that the item will not subsequently be delivered.

From personal experience (and in another life living in the UK) I have had a $1000 package go missing, buyer refunded, claim made, post office paid out after a couple of months and several weeks later they delivered the package in china. Post office then reclaimed the refund from me and money&goods were gone.

[MonBK]

In my book the seller is a thief that stoled $1,750 from the buyer.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by MonBK

In my book the seller is a thief that stoled $1,750 from the buyer.

Totally agree. The explanation did not help the situation at all, as the buyer is still without the watch and full amount of money paid.

[locutus49]

Any experience seller of valuable items KNOWS that if you are going to use USPS, you use Registered Mail, because 1) the mail is handled like evidence, signed for each step of the way. 2) You can insure up to $25K.

So deciding on a whim to send the Rolex via a new USPS service that does NOT allow sufficient insurance is very, very alerting.

[mfnj]

Seller should immediately send a check for $1,750 to buyer to make him whole (on the assumption that a check for $5k is already on the way and good funds). Short and sweet. Buyers are always to be made whole if a purchased item never arrives as quickly as possible. It is up to the Seller to deal with all insurance related issues.

[iazrollie]

this stuff makes me sick to my stomach. I'm with you Gus.

[teqp]

Originally Posted by MonBK

In my book the seller is a thief that stoled $1,750 from the buyer.

Agree with this as well.

Nice explanation, but does not make it the right way to conduct business. It's your prerogative to believe otherwise, but if the roles were reversed, IMHO, I'm sure you would not be happy with the current status of the transaction.

[brandrea]

It's pretty difficult to comprehend how the seller can justify NOT making the buyer whole. If the shoe were on the other foot, would the buyer expect to be out of pocket anything?

[Presa canary]

Looks like it's time to say bye to troy boy now before he decides it's fair to rob another member out of $1,750.

[Lgear080]

Huh... The details are interesting, but only serve to further
Place you in a negative light. Why withhold the buyers funds
While you waited for the insurance funds? Ridiculous. This is
Your problem and you're still clearly in the wrong.

And for god's sake what is there to DISCUSS about the balance???
Give Gus his money back.

[drifter01]

The buyer sent you the total amount and you had to wait for nothing. In return, he expected a watch. He got nothing, yet you make him wait for USPS insurance, and then refund, with the insurance check, an amount LESS than he paid.....how can you justify this? He was quick to send money to you, you should be just as quick to send his money back when watch vanished. No matter how you write your explanation you come out looking bad at best and a thief at worst. You not only owe the buyer a check to fullky reimburse his payment to you, but also an apology to him and probably to the entire forum for your actions in this affair.
Nothing you can say or do makes you seem like the injured party. You owe the buyer...pay him.

[Troy Boy]

I've never stated that Gus/George was only going to receive $5,000.........there were just a few more issues to discuss before that balance was settled.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Troy Boy

I've never stated that Gus/George was only going to receive $5,000.........there were just a few more issues to discuss before that balance was settled.

Can't wait to hear what those "issues" are that justifies you holding his money for this long time.

[Frogdog]

You left an important fact out of your explanation? You forgot to mention that Gus sent you the money. While it may be implied the money was sent I think it's important to point that out. That being said, it sounds like you spent the money before the deal was complete. The fact that Gus had to wait one day longer than the time it takes you to transfer the funds back to him truly reflects your character. I bet you have a nice watch on your wrist right now, while Gus waits? At this point, your explanation is nothing more than a feeble attempt to salvage your reputation and relieve the pressure! Disappointing! 👎

[drifter01]

Issues mean nothing in this case. Youi recieved money for a watch that never got delivered. You owed him a full refund immediately, not after some some issues were settled. Nothing you say can remove or reduce your responsibility to do that. You screwed up. Even a full refund at this point doesn't make things right. The fact that you made him wait this long, and brinbg this to the forums attention shows you as someone who cannot be trusted to follow through honorably with a transaction. As my grandfathers would say, " a man is nothing without honor". Step up and do the honorable thing. Be a man.

[GradyPhilpott]

I think at this point, it would be best if everyone just reserved their opinions until the seller and buyer can get the remainder of the refund settled.

Gus' check for 5k is in the mail and whatever arrangements need to be made to reimburse the remaining $1750 needs time to work out.

If Gus gets all his money back, then what we have here is just a sloppy deal handled in all the wrong ways, but all's well that ends well.

If Gus winds up getting shorted by even one cent, then matter unsettled.

Now, it's up to the parties involved.

[bayerische]

Oh, Troy Boy... What a soap opera.

Hopefully the OP get's what is owed him.

[Alfredo.]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

And you have been lurking around here under this username since July 2, before your other username was banned?

My thoughts exactly.... This is just ridiculous.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by Troy Boy

I've never stated that Gus/George was only going to receive $5,000.........there were just a few more issues to discuss before that balance was settled.

You're now trolling the thread.

There is not one member who either agrees with, or understands your reasoning. In fact, the majority view is that it is ridiculous for Gus to wait this long - and be made to wait even longer, to be made whole.

What possible issue is there aside from improperly withholding the remainder of the balance?

You are illustrative of exercising due diligence when researching a potential acquisition and give proof to the saying "buy the seller first."

[red1108nyc]

I think it is time to make Gus whole on his entire amount immediately and an apology would go a long way. We all collect and trade for fun and let's try to keep it that way.

Do the right things and move forward please.

Best,

Fred

[goldfixer21]

Priority Express is NOT a new USPS shipping option, it's simply a new name for Express shipping. All that changed is the name , the method is exactly the same. It has always had a $5K limit.

[iazrollie]

Originally Posted by goldfixer21

Priority Express is NOT a new USPS shipping option, it's simply a new name for Express shipping. All that changed is the name , the method is exactly the same. It has always had a $5K limit.

Right, but if you send registered mail you can insure for $10K+. I've done $14K in the past.

[eco8gator]

I guess on a positive note the buyer will eventually all of his money back.

So many post this situation seem much worse than it was...lucky for the buyer the seller got upgrade from a "total dirt bag that ran away with the money and watch" to just "very poor sales man."

Guess there is a lessened learned here becasue the intent was for the buyer to get a watch...no funny business. The whole "s@#$ happens thing happened" and from there it went spiraling out of control, it appears that its mostly worked out.

I still have a feeling that the watch is at the local PO... The question is what happens if the watch is actually delivered...

[goldfixer21]

Originally Posted by iazrollie

Right, but if you send registered mail you can insure for $10K+. I've done $14K in the past.

Registered can be insured for up to $25K

[iazrollie]

Originally Posted by goldfixer21

Registered can be insured for up to $25K

Good to know. Too bad it takes a lifetime and weeks of agita to get the package to the recipient.