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Old 26 September 2013, 12:34 PM   #31
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Watch servicing is a money losing business? If that is the case, I feel thankful for all the charitable works of the independent watchmakers.

I think what you meant was that watch servicing doesn't make them 100x more money than watch selling
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Old 26 September 2013, 03:25 PM   #32
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For modern watches these service times are not acceptable.
yes. especially expensive watch
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Old 26 September 2013, 11:44 PM   #33
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Thierry Stern is aware that the long repair times are a very serious issue for PP. I believe that he is doing the best he can to improve the situation without losing control over pricing and quality standards - which may, for most customers, still feel inadequate at present.

Here is an interesting link from 2009:
http://www.watchtime.com/featured/pa...resent-future/
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Old 27 September 2013, 12:12 AM   #34
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Thierry Stern is aware that the long repair times are a very serious issue for PP. I believe that he is doing the best he can to improve the situation without losing control over pricing and quality standards - which may, for most customers, still feel inadequate at present.

Here is an interesting link from 2009:
http://www.watchtime.com/featured/pa...resent-future/
A week would be great, but unrealistic between shipping times and service time. I think a month for most pieces, and two months max on the most complicated pieces is a reasonable goal at the moment considering the current wait times. A long term goal of one month waiting time for all pieces would be fantastic...
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Old 27 September 2013, 12:15 AM   #35
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What they should do is lower production and increase MSRP so that they can devote more watchmakers to servicing. Patek values will go up and they should still be making the same amount of profit. I would rotate watchmakers between new pieces and service.

Patek's service is insane, it looks like it is equivalent or more work than the original assembly and it seems to have the full test cycle.
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Old 27 September 2013, 12:19 AM   #36
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What they should do is lower production and increase MSRP so that they can devote more watchmakers to servicing. Patek values will go up and they should still be making the same amount of profit. I would rotate watchmakers between new pieces and service.

Patek's service is insane, it looks like it is equivalent or more work than the original assembly and it seems to have the full test cycle.
Hopefully that is part of the reason for the recent price jump in new generation pieces.
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Old 27 September 2013, 12:25 AM   #37
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Hopefully that is part of the reason for the recent price jump in new generation pieces.
Yeah I hope so. For a company that sells products intended for the next generation, the service component is a huge part of that and if you're reluctant to service your pieces because of the wait times that's just not good.
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Old 27 September 2013, 01:33 AM   #38
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Yeah I hope so. For a company that sells products intended for the next generation, the service component is a huge part of that and if you're reluctant to service your pieces because of the wait times that's just not good.
Yeah, as mentioned I know people that sold/traded their complicated pieces when they found out the repair times and switched to other companies and/or less complicated pieces. That is lost business from what is already a small group of buyers for their complicated watches....
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Old 27 September 2013, 08:05 AM   #39
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What they should do is lower production and increase MSRP so that they can devote more watchmakers to servicing. Patek values will go up and they should still be making the same amount of profit. I would rotate watchmakers between new pieces and service.
I agree with this completely. However for PP, I think it is easier said than done. They are definitely increasing the MSRP of the new watches - just look at prices of the new Calatrava 5227! However there are always going to be watches that are in higher demand and others sitting on display at dealers' windows for months or years. If PP decided they are going to reduce the production of in-demand watches (e.g. 5711A), a lot of customers are going to be unhappy that they have to wait for their watch order. So it is a tough balance between customers waiting for a new watch order and a customer waiting for existing watch servicing.

If they can train highly qualified watchmakers in a short time period, it would be a quick fix. But of course this takes time and they have to strategically plan for this way in advance.
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Old 27 September 2013, 08:48 AM   #40
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The article about Theirry Stern regarding his concerns was from 2009. It has only gotten worse in the past 4 years. Words are empty! You can only judge by performance
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Old 27 September 2013, 12:40 PM   #41
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I was at Patek in NY today. I spent some time with the head watchmaker and this issue is supply of watch makers. For example for someone to repair a grand complication Patek they need a minimum of 1O years of experience working on Pateks.
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Old 27 September 2013, 08:08 PM   #42
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Well maybe ten years is a bit extreme, why not make it 5 years. Common guys, watch making even at the highest level is not brain surgery. You could also have a couple less sky moon tourbillions a year and have those watchmakers work on repairs for example

Whatever they are doing is not acceptable. It makes collectors concerned with their after sale support. Imagine buying a luxury car ( by the way, much more complicated then a watch) and being told that it would only take a few days to repair but you need to wait 9 months for us to allocate a mechanic to do it. Then the car manufacture tells you that we would rather use our talent to make more cars because that is where we really make money. I think it would be obvious to feel that the company is not as much concerned with their customers once their profit has been made and that is were many collectors feel today. Patek's slogan is that our watches can last forever, buth they don't tell you how terrible their repair time is. I think for many of us hear we have lost some level of appreciation for the brand with this issue. The loss of appreciation is not for the product itself, but specifically with management.
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Old 27 September 2013, 10:16 PM   #43
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Watchmakers are like petroleum engineers. Not many are coming out of school. I have been to the grand complication floor in Geneva. 2000 grand comps per year and only about 20 watch makers. It is all done by hand because of how technical it is. I would argue that building the movement for the 5204 (split second is the hardest comp to build) or to a lesser extent the 5270 is much more labor intensive than building an engine of a modern Ferrari.

There is an average of over 1 year of man hours to build a grand complication start to finish.

BTW I got a tutorial on the difference from the 5270 in house perp chrono movenment and he old lemania based 3970/5970 movement. Patek invented and patented three new parts for the new movement that is he first change in the technology since the late 1890's. it blew me a way. The new 5270 and 5204 movement is unbelievable when dissected. I use to think Lange han an edge in the chrono space. Not even close now when you break it down! I will try to provide for more in a second thread!
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Old 27 September 2013, 11:13 PM   #44
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Well said

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Originally Posted by DK3 View Post
Well maybe ten years is a bit extreme, why not make it 5 years. Common guys, watch making even at the highest level is not brain surgery. You could also have a couple less sky moon tourbillions a year and have those watchmakers work on repairs for example

Whatever they are doing is not acceptable. It makes collectors concerned with their after sale support. Imagine buying a luxury car ( by the way, much more complicated then a watch) and being told that it would only take a few days to repair but you need to wait 9 months for us to allocate a mechanic to do it. Then the car manufacture tells you that we would rather use our talent to make more cars because that is where we really make money. I think it would be obvious to feel that the company is not as much concerned with their customers once their profit has been made and that is were many collectors feel today. Patek's slogan is that our watches can last forever, buth they don't tell you how terrible their repair time is. I think for many of us hear we have lost some level of appreciation for the brand with this issue. The loss of appreciation is not for the product itself, but specifically with management.
I think this summarizes the situation and our frustration in an extremely articulate and well constructed fashion. 10 years would be enough time to attend and graduate medical school AND complete a full residency training in neurosurgery. C'mon people, you may not like it but try to see it for what it is. DK3 has it right.
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Old 27 September 2013, 11:24 PM   #45
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There is an average of over 1 year of man hours to build a grand complication start to finish.
That is building one from scratch with no parts I take it, and is not the case when servicing it. Servicing it doesn't seem to take more than a couple of weeks, as per people visiting NY and having pictures taken with their watch in storage after it has already been there months but not serviced yet. So why does Patek hold onto our watches for 6 to 8 months or longer when we could wear it up until the time when they will actually work on it and get it back a month or two later? Likewise, even Stern in that 2009 article is suggesting that the real time average that servicing takes is closer to a week, so a month or two is more than reasonable. Six to eight months or more is not reasonable...
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Old 28 September 2013, 01:27 AM   #46
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They average 10K watches per year in for service and they have 20 watch makers. Less the comps the quicker you will get it turned around. If you had to send your 5270 in, it would have to go to Geneva. They do not have a watch maker qualified to fix it in the US. If it is a chrono issue there is one man in the world who can fix it at this point since he invented and patented the 5270's proprietary chrono function. The haven't seen enough broken 5270 to train someone to fix it. This is one example.

The 5970 is the most complicated piece they can fix here.

The reason they sit there is that it is in line behind others.




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That is building one from scratch with no parts I take it, and is not the case when servicing it. Servicing it doesn't seem to take more than a couple of weeks, as per people visiting NY and having pictures taken with their watch in storage after it has already been there months but not serviced yet. So why does Patek hold onto our watches for 6 to 8 months or longer when we could wear it up until the time when they will actually work on it and get it back a month or two later? Likewise, even Stern in that 2009 article is suggesting that the real time average that servicing takes is closer to a week, so a month or two is more than reasonable. Six to eight months or more is not reasonable...
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Old 28 September 2013, 02:42 AM   #47
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The reason they sit there is that it is in line behind others.
That's my point. It shouldn't be sitting there in a line. It should be sitting at our homes in the line. It shouldn't be in a drawer at their facility for months before it gets worked on, which is what is currently happening. They need to streamline that process. As we saw in one of those picture threads a few months ago, someone went to visit their watch that was in the queue already for a few months and it was still sitting there in the queue. That is ridiculous. The owner should be put in the queue while they still have possession of their watch and then notified when they are close to the front of the queue to bring it in for service.

It is nice that you like arguing for the sake of Patek. They have given you some nice trips and what not to their facilities, so I can understand your brand loyalty, but it is loyalty to a fault as concerns their servicing times. even Stern's goals in his article from 2009 suggest that he knows it is a serious flaw in their business model.
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Old 28 September 2013, 06:16 AM   #48
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I personally don't worry about servicing because I have had first hand knowledge on how super technical it is to build and service a Patek. I am told that they are going to reduce production and start working on service. I also don't worry about it because I have many watches. Will I miss it. Sure. I don't wear anything besides my 5711 more than once a week at most. The reason, it still feels as special as the first day. Absence make the heart grow fonder.

With that said I like your idea on serving. Do a preschedule and wear it until you are called to send it in. The only challenge to that is once that watch is sent in an opened, it is very un predictable on what has the be replaced. It could be a quick turnaround or a long turnaround. It would solve simple service but from my experience things always have to be replaced.




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That's my point. It shouldn't be sitting there in a line. It should be sitting at our homes in the line. It shouldn't be in a drawer at their facility for months before it gets worked on, which is what is currently happening. They need to streamline that process. As we saw in one of those picture threads a few months ago, someone went to visit their watch that was in the queue already for a few months and it was still sitting there in the queue. That is ridiculous. The owner should be put in the queue while they still have possession of their watch and then notified when they are close to the front of the queue to bring it in for service.

It is nice that you like arguing for the sake of Patek. They have given you some nice trips and what not to their facilities, so I can understand your brand loyalty, but it is loyalty to a fault as concerns their servicing times. even Stern's goals in his article from 2009 suggest that he knows it is a serious flaw in their business model.
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Old 28 September 2013, 07:03 AM   #49
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With that said I like your idea on serving. Do a preschedule and wear it until you are called to send it in. The only challenge to that is once that watch is sent in an opened, it is very un predictable on what has the be replaced. It could be a quick turnaround or a long turnaround. It would solve simple service but from my experience things always have to be replaced.
With parts being machined, as I saw once in their videos, it shouldn't be hard to get the parts quickly if they run the back-end of the business well also. Seems they should overhaul all of those things at once so they can begin a more efficient servicing model. Still, even solving that problem on the front end would cut a good portion of time off the waiting period.

The only people who would suffer the longer wait times are the people who damaged their own watches or whose watches broke, as this wouldn't be a routine service and the owner would have to hold onto his watch before servicing even though the watch would be unusable. In the case of warrantied watches that broke due to Patek's fault, they should get first dibs and the system should integrate that somehow so that they are inserted into the front of the queue at regular intervals. People without warranty, oh well, get in line with everyone else... LOL!
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Old 28 September 2013, 07:28 AM   #50
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Agree

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With parts being machined, as I saw once in their videos, it shouldn't be hard to get the parts quickly if they run the back-end of the business well also. Seems they should overhaul all of those things at once so they can begin a more efficient servicing model. Still, even solving that problem on the front end would cut a good portion of time off the waiting period.

The only people who would suffer the longer wait times are the people who damaged their own watches or whose watches broke, as this wouldn't be a routine service and they would have their watches before servicing the whole time, but the watch would be unusable. In the case of warrantied watches that broke due to Patek's fault, they should get first dibs and the system should integrate that somehow so that they are inserted into the front of the queue at regular intervals. People without warranty, oh well, get in line with everyone else... LOL!
This sounds like an extremely logical and fair solution to what is for many a major detractor from an otherwise stellar brand. Hope that the folks in charge get the message!
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Old 28 September 2013, 07:42 AM   #51
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[QUOTE=myopiccoog;4438215]They average 10K watches per year in for service and they have 20 watch makers. Less the comps the quicker you will get it turned around. If you had to send your 5270 in, it would have to go to Geneva. They do not have a watch maker qualified to fix it in the US. If it is a chrono issue there is one man in the world who can fix it at this point since he invented and patented the 5270's proprietary chrono function. The haven't seen enough broken 5270 to train someone to fix it. This is one example.
QUOTE]

myopiccoog,

Do you know if the 5170s and 7071s need to be sent to this watchmaker in Geneva for repair/servicing? AFAIK, they all use a very similar (if not the same) chrono movement (29-535) as the 5270. There probably aren't that many 5270s produced as of now, but probably a lot more 5170s and a decent number of 7071s out there.

A bit off tangent, but I spotted a few 7071s at ADs on display, and it seems fairly large for a lady's watch. I assume they can't make it smaller due to the size of the caliber 29-535. The ladies version doesn't seem to be that popular as of yet compared to the men's version of the chronograph.
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Old 28 September 2013, 10:43 AM   #52
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I don't think so. I think it is I ter workings of the chrono on top of perp calendar
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Old 28 September 2013, 01:37 PM   #53
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We all love Patek watches in this forum, but some of us love patek soo much that they can do no wrong. The love is almost like a parent that cannot see their child do any wrong.
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Old 13 January 2020, 03:15 AM   #54
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I was just amusing myself by calculating how much your grand complication watch would be out of your hands and in someone else's hands during your lifetime if the repair times were 6 months long.

If you buy your grand complication at 40 years old and you live to be 80, how long will Patek have your watch instead of you during your lifetime, assuming a 6 month repair time?

Depending on whether you include the last service at age 80, Patek will have your watch anywhere from 8.75 to 10 percent of your lifetime with the watch. OUCH!

Now, if it takes even longer for them to service a grand complication than 6 months, say perhaps 1 year, then you are talking around 20 percent of your lifetime with the watch.

My new philosophy is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I would rather pay more later if there is additional wear and repairs and have more time with my watch.

I do have other pieces I can wear when a watch is being serviced, but it does seem like a huge chunk of time. Perhaps Patek could benefit from a better system, such as people registering for having their watch serviced, and then bringing/sending it in when their number is called from the queue. This would allow people to use their watch up until the week of month when it will actually be worked on, and it would get me to service my watch every five years without fail.

how come it took so long? is this happened until now?
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Old 13 January 2020, 08:21 AM   #55
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This is an old thread. Repair times, at least in NYC, are much quicker averaging 4 months or less when I last dealt with them. It is challenging for any company to find watchmakers/repairers. It is not a field people are racing to get in to, although, maybe it should be.
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Old 13 January 2020, 08:27 AM   #56
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Patek has upped their game.

The first time (dial blemish) I sent my 5170 out for service it has to go back to Geneva (4.5 months), the next time (chrono function) a year later the service was done locally in nyc. Took about 6 weeks.
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Old 13 January 2020, 01:01 PM   #57
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Much as I hate to say this, I would NEVER let anyone other than a PP service center touch any of my PP’s . I don’t are how good they may be or how many references they have. These timepieces are just too finely made to take a chance with anyone else. I have experienced the result of a great watchmaker doing a minor repair on an ellipse and let me just say I was far from satisfied. I have also seen some really poor polishing jobs by non Patek service people. I will just bite the bullet and wait on PP especially for my Grand Complication. Btw for me they don’t go to the spa unless they are broken just mo. :-))


En
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Old 13 January 2020, 02:52 PM   #58
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Patek has upped their game.

The first time (dial blemish) I sent my 5170 out for service it has to go back to Geneva (4.5 months), the next time (chrono function) a year later the service was done locally in nyc. Took about 6 weeks.

i Live in Jakarta, If i send the PP Jakarta, he will send it to singapore. From singapore to switzerland. Do you think it is only 6 weeks?
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Old 13 January 2020, 03:40 PM   #59
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i Live in Jakarta, If i send the PP Jakarta, he will send it to singapore. From singapore to switzerland. Do you think it is only 6 weeks?
The big change in nyc dealer is that nyc technicians had become qualified to service the particular movement. If your nearest Patek service does not have those qualifications then I would expect your watch will have to enjoy the long stay in Geneva.
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Old 13 January 2020, 04:40 PM   #60
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The solution to long wait times is to have multiple Pateks to wear and never have more than one in for service at a time. Also, I would pay more for service if it meant shorter times.
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