5 things I learned from the 5740 (Nautilus PP) release...

[debner4]

1. That Patek is committed to keeping the Nautilus as a 40mm watch.

With the last three new releases of the Aquanaut being at 40.8mm (5164), and then twice at 42.2mm (5168 and 5968) it is clear (at least to me) that ALL future Aquanauts are going to be larger than 40mm. The fact that they kept the 5740 at 40mm likewise makes it clear to me that the Nautilus will forever be a 40mm watch.

2. That the 5712 has a water rating of 60m instead of 120m because of the 240 movement, not the pushers.

Many people have said that the 5712 had a lower water rating than the other Nautilus watches because of the pushers to correct the moonphase and date. However, I always thought it had something to do with the 240 movement because the 5712 was the only Nautilus with that movement whereas the 5726 had pushers and still retained a 120m water rating. Even with advances over the past 12 years since the 5712 was introduced, the 5740 still came out with a 60m water rating. The 5740 and the 5712 are the only two Nautilus watches to be rated 60m-- and the only two to have the 240 movement. Now what about the 240 movement causes it to have a lower water rating I have no idea...

3. I foresee a 5712g coming out in the future with a full white gold bracelet and 5740 color dial.

The 5712g is probably the least sought after Naultilus as it does not have a full bracelet (which most people prefer on a Nautilus) and has a dial that is less interesting than either the 5712a or 5712r. I think the fact that the 5740 comes in a full white gold bracelet and different dial color (than the 5712), allows Patek to come out with a full bracelet 5712g with that beautiful 5740 dial for around USD $70,000. I also think a 5712r in a full bracelet will come out at the same time for around the same price. That would create better price spacing between the 5712a and the PM versions (versus the current USD $5,000 gap) to fall more in line with other PM vs steel pricing in the Patek lineup.

4. The 5740 adds to the interest/desirability of the 5712a.

The 5740 and 5712a both have 60m water ratings and both have 3 subdials on blue dials. The 5712a is USD $39,000 whereas the 5740 is USD $119,000. For those that "don't like" the 5712, there are generally three schools of thought. The first is that they don't like the 5712 asymetrical dial. Well, nothing about the 5740 is going to have an impact on that. However, the second, is that "many" prefer the clean look of the 5711. Well, for me, the fact that the 5740 is stunning, while still being "busy" will change the way people view the 5712a dial over time. Although many will still prefer the clean look of the 5711, I think a lot of those people will prefer the 5740 over the 5711 which will change the way they think about the value of having a "clean dial." The third is that the 5712 "only" has a water rating of 60m. Well, if a USD $119,000 Nautilus can have a 60m water rating, so can a USD $39,000 Nautilus... It may be a stretch, but I think the 5740 will ultimately have a positive effect on how people view the 5712.

5. The 5711a isn't going down in price anytime soon.

By having the 5740 come out at USD $119,000, the 5711 is USD $90,000 less expensive than the most expensive Nautilus (it was previously about USD $30,000 less expensive than the most expensive Nautilus; excluding the full rose gold 5980r which was USD $60,000 more expensive than a 5711a). It is also USD $10,000 less expensive than the next least expensive Nautilus (5712a) whereas it used to be USD $8,000 less expensive than the next least expensive Nautilus (before the price increases to the 5711a and 5712a). Said differently, if you want a Nautilus, the 5711a is a hell of a bargain compared to any other Nautilus-- a lack of complications notwithstanding. And oh yeah, it's also less expensive than every time + date Calatrava other than the 5296.

[Ahfe]

Would love to see 5712r on bracelet or 5712 two tone. They both would sell like crazy, especially the two tone

[Hramez]

Originally Posted by debner4

1. That Patek is committed to keeping the Nautilus as a 40mm watch.

With the last three new releases of the Aquanaut being at 40.8mm (5164), and then twice at 42.2mm (5168 and 5968) it is clear (at least to me) that ALL future Aquanauts are going to be larger than 40mm. The fact that they kept the 5740 at 40mm likewise makes it clear to me that the Nautilus will forever be a 40mm watch.

2. The the 5712 has a water rating of 60m instead of 120m because of the 240 movement, not the pushers.

Many people have said that the 5712 had a lower water rating than the other Nautilus watches because of the pushers to correct the moonphase and date. However, I always thought it had something to do with the 240 movement because the 5712 was the only Nautilus with that movement whereas the 5726 had pushers and still retained a 120m water rating. Even with advances over the past 12 years since the 5712 was introduced, the 5740 still came out with a 60m water rating. The 5740 and the 5712 are the only two Nautilus watches to be rated 60m-- and the only two to have the 240 movement.

3. I foresee a 5712g coming out in the future with a full white gold bracelet and 5740 color dial.

The 5712g is probably the least sought after Naultilus as it does not have a full bracelet (which most people prefer on a Nautilus) and has a dial that is less interesting than either the 5712a or 5712r. I think the fact that the 5740 comes in a full white gold bracelet and different dial color (than the 5712), allows Patek to come out with a full bracelet 5712g with that beautiful 5740 dial for around USD $70,000. I also think a 5712r in a full bracelet will come out at the same time for around USD $68,000. That would create better price spacing between the 5712a and the PM versions (versus the $5,000 gap now) to fall more in line with other PM vs steel pricing in the Patek lineup.

4. The 5740 adds to the interest/desirability of the 5712a.

The 5740 and 5712a both have 60m water ratings and both have 3 subdials on blue dials. The 5712a is USD $39,000 whereas the 5740 is USD $119,000. For those that "don't like" the 5712, there are generally three schools of thought. The first is that they don't like the 5712 asymetrical dial. Well, nothing about the 5740 is going to have an impact on that. However, the second, is that "many" prefer the clean look of the 5711. Well, for me, the fact that the 5740 is stunning, while still being "busy" will change the way people view the 5712a dial over time. The third is that the 5712 "only" has a water rating of 60m. Although many will still prefer the clean look of the 5711, I think a lot of those people will prefer the 5740 over the 5711 which will change the way they think about the value of having a "clean dial." Maybe a stretch, but I think it will have an effect.

5. The 5711a isn't going down in price anytime soon.

By having the 5740 come out at USD $119,000, the 5711 is USD $90,000 less expensive than the most expensive Nautilus (and it was previously about USD $30,000 less expensive than the most expensive Nautilus (excluding the all rose-gold 5980r which was USD $60,000 more expensive). It is also USD $10,000 less expensive than the next least expensive Nautilus (5712a) whereas it used to be USD $8,000 less expensive than the next least expensive Nautilus (before the price increases to the 5711a and 5712a). Said differently, if you want a Nautilus, the 5711a is a hell of a bargain compared to any other Nautilus-- a lack of complications notwithstanding.

Nice analysis


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[AK797]

I can see the 5712, 11 and maybe 26 coming out on WG bracelets. They've tried the 12 and 26 with straps as an alternative to the bracelets but even when waiting lists have become insanely long not much money has transferred to these refs, so I think they know the Naut has to be on bracelet now to really sell, and they don't want to make these in SS any more.

Your points on the stubbornness of 40mm for the Naut even on a busy PC, makes me think of the diminutive Daytona and not messing with the magic formula.

[ap1]

Get any and all while you can

[Ahfe]

Originally Posted by AK797

I can see the 5712, 11 and maybe 26 coming out on WG bracelets. They've tried the 12 and 26 with straps as an alternative to the bracelets but even when waiting lists have become insanely long not much money has transferred to these refs, so I think they know the Naut has to be on bracelet now to really sell, and they don't want to make these in SS any more.

Well said
But why only two tone on 5980?! they need to add it to the entire range..

[nyc2la]

I think the 5712 has a 60m WR because it's a snap back case. Perhaps that methodology is related to the movement (?), I don't know.

[debner4]

Originally Posted by AK797

I can see the 5712, 11 and maybe 26 coming out on WG bracelets. They've tried the 12 and 26 with straps as an alternative to the bracelets but even when waiting lists have become insanely long not much money has transferred to these refs, so I think they know the Naut has to be on bracelet now to really sell, and they don't want to make these in SS any more.

I totally agree. I think the days of any Nautilus on a leather strap are numbered. Patek may have done that originally to keep the prices down versus full PM bracelets on a "sports watch." It was one thing to have full PM bracelets on the 5711 because the total cost was still around USD $50,000 whereas the ones with complications would have been USD $65,000+. But now that prices are insane and Nautilus is the "it" watch, no need to worry about that in the future...

[thomaspp]

Interesting thoughts. 5740 is to me really nicely executed. Classic in proportions and slim; bravo!

What is outrageous is the price ($120k!), no matter how you slice it. 5740 shares the same movement if I am not mistaken of the 3940 and its successor perpetual calendar references so it is really hard to "justify" the price. Is any justification needed? Absolutely not. Do I still want one? Yes!

So I guess you suck it up and buy knowing damn well going into it that the price is just armed robbery. 'Tis all.

PS: Let us not forget the 5976 44mm monster! Hopefully patek will keep all nautilus in 40 from now on.

[jon_jon]

Some interesting thoughts and observations.

IMO most people in the market for the 5711/1A and the 5712/1A are not in the market for the 5740/1G, because the pricing is at a different level.

Will the introduction of the 5740 affect 5711/1A and 5712/1A markets - probably not.

I would say the reason Patek stayed with smaller case is because the 240Q is a small movement and has been in use since the 3940, which had a 36mm case. It would be out of proportion to enlarge the case to 42mm and use the 240Q movement. I still expect Patek to continue with larger sports watch sizes.

[Jinson]

Nice summary ... the 5740G is beautifully executed. I suspect a steel version is not likely as it may compete with the demand of the other Nautilus calendars complications.

[mps354]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Interesting thoughts. 5740 is to me really nicely executed. Classic in proportions and slim; bravo!

What is outrageous is the price ($120k!), no matter how you slice it. 5740 shares the same movement if I am not mistaken of the 3940 and its successor perpetual calendar references so it is really hard to "justify" the price. Is any justification needed? Absolutely not. Do I still want one? Yes!

So I guess you suck it up and buy knowing damn well going into it that the price is just armed robbery. 'Tis all.

PS: Let us not forget the 5976 44mm monster! Hopefully patek will keep all nautilus in 40 from now on.

Feel the same way. Still on the list at my AD though

[GB-man]

Points 3 and 4 I would somewhat agree. Nice post either way

[soundserious]

Well written.

[Kittayos]

At current market’s rate, I still choose to own steel 5711 and 5712 (assuming 50k+55k) with some change instead of buying 5740. Nice watch but at that price, u got a load of choices.

[JJ WA]

Originally Posted by debner4

3. I foresee a 5712g coming out in the future with a full white gold bracelet and 5740 color dial.

Please, Patek, do NOT do this. It would ruin my marriage, my retirement plans, etc. I just can’t spend anything close to the realm of 100k on a watch, but a 5712/1G with the 5740 dial color would probably be too much to resist. As of now, 5712/1A continues to be my favorite watch.

[tyler1980]

i agree with everything. Except that the WR matters to anyone (interesting point on why the WR is what it is though on particular watches). Its fun to say i picked such and such a watch because of the increased water resistance but i don't believe them for a second. Who picks a non tool watch with that as the tie breaker?

Also some are 40.5mm

[andyol1966]

Some good points there. The 5740 would be my grail watch,,,but the price!! Now if it was in SS with that dial, I would buy it tomorrow.

[Watch Admirer]

Ok

[The B]

Originally Posted by debner4

1. That Patek is committed to keeping the Nautilus as a 40mm watch.

With the last three new releases of the Aquanaut being at 40.8mm (5164), and then twice at 42.2mm (5168 and 5968) it is clear (at least to me) that ALL future Aquanauts are going to be larger than 40mm. The fact that they kept the 5740 at 40mm likewise makes it clear to me that the Nautilus will forever be a 40mm watch.

2. That the 5712 has a water rating of 60m instead of 120m because of the 240 movement, not the pushers.

Many people have said that the 5712 had a lower water rating than the other Nautilus watches because of the pushers to correct the moonphase and date. However, I always thought it had something to do with the 240 movement because the 5712 was the only Nautilus with that movement whereas the 5726 had pushers and still retained a 120m water rating. Even with advances over the past 12 years since the 5712 was introduced, the 5740 still came out with a 60m water rating. The 5740 and the 5712 are the only two Nautilus watches to be rated 60m-- and the only two to have the 240 movement. Now what about the 240 movement causes it to have a lower water rating I have no idea...

3. I foresee a 5712g coming out in the future with a full white gold bracelet and 5740 color dial.

The 5712g is probably the least sought after Naultilus as it does not have a full bracelet (which most people prefer on a Nautilus) and has a dial that is less interesting than either the 5712a or 5712r. I think the fact that the 5740 comes in a full white gold bracelet and different dial color (than the 5712), allows Patek to come out with a full bracelet 5712g with that beautiful 5740 dial for around USD $70,000. I also think a 5712r in a full bracelet will come out at the same time for around the same price. That would create better price spacing between the 5712a and the PM versions (versus the current USD $5,000 gap) to fall more in line with other PM vs steel pricing in the Patek lineup.

4. The 5740 adds to the interest/desirability of the 5712a.

The 5740 and 5712a both have 60m water ratings and both have 3 subdials on blue dials. The 5712a is USD $39,000 whereas the 5740 is USD $119,000. For those that "don't like" the 5712, there are generally three schools of thought. The first is that they don't like the 5712 asymetrical dial. Well, nothing about the 5740 is going to have an impact on that. However, the second, is that "many" prefer the clean look of the 5711. Well, for me, the fact that the 5740 is stunning, while still being "busy" will change the way people view the 5712a dial over time. Although many will still prefer the clean look of the 5711, I think a lot of those people will prefer the 5740 over the 5711 which will change the way they think about the value of having a "clean dial." The third is that the 5712 "only" has a water rating of 60m. Well, if a USD $119,000 Nautilus can have a 60m water rating, so can a USD $39,000 Nautilus... It may be a stretch, but I think the 5740 will ultimately have a positive effect on how people view the 5712.

5. The 5711a isn't going down in price anytime soon.

By having the 5740 come out at USD $119,000, the 5711 is USD $90,000 less expensive than the most expensive Nautilus (it was previously about USD $30,000 less expensive than the most expensive Nautilus; excluding the full rose gold 5980r which was USD $60,000 more expensive than a 5711a). It is also USD $10,000 less expensive than the next least expensive Nautilus (5712a) whereas it used to be USD $8,000 less expensive than the next least expensive Nautilus (before the price increases to the 5711a and 5712a). Said differently, if you want a Nautilus, the 5711a is a hell of a bargain compared to any other Nautilus-- a lack of complications notwithstanding. And oh yeah, it's also less expensive than every time + date Calatrava other than the 5296.

Thank you for taking the time to write this, my favorite post in a long time.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by andyol1966

Some good points there. The 5740 would be my grail watch,,,but the price!! Now if it was in SS with that dial, I would buy it tomorrow.

This would be £50-60K. And hard to resist.

[incontrol]

Very thoughtful post. I agree with Steve on the lower water resistance of the 5712. The question is why do they use a snap back case instead of screw down? Is it to maintain the overall thinness of the case?

I too have asked to be put on the list for the 5740. I figure why not, it is a beautiful watch and would save big dollars over the 5270P!


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[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by incontrol

I too have asked to be put on the list for the 5740. I figure why not, it is a beautiful watch and would save big dollars over the 5270P!


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hahah... I love how we justify these things in our mind. Have done this many times myself!

[sechsgang]

Originally Posted by andyol1966

Some good points there. The 5740 would be my grail watch,,,but the price!! Now if it was in SS with that dial, I would buy it tomorrow.

It would still be in the 85k range at the lowest though, even if they did that, likely in the mid 90s...does that make THAT much of a difference from 119k at that point? Just curious as many have echoed what you said.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by sechsgang

It would still be in the 85k range at the lowest though, even if they did that, likely in the mid 90s...does that make THAT much of a difference from 119k at that point? Just curious as many have echoed what you said.

For me yes as I think at £60K and £90K both of these are quite overpriced, so the cheaper one is easier to digest.

[Calatrava r]

I really believe the type pushers used on the 240Q movement result in the 60 meter WR. The large rectangular chronograph pushers can be made more pressure proof. The stylus pin correctors on the 240Q are round, shallow and very small and just do not give a great seal.

[andyol1966]

Originally Posted by AK797

For me yes as I think at £60K and £90K both of these are quite overpriced, so the cheaper one is easier to digest.

X2

[sechsgang]

Originally Posted by AK797

For me yes as I think at £60K and £90K both of these are quite overpriced, so the cheaper one is easier to digest.

Interesting, I'd have a harder time stomaching a 90k USD steel watch I think than the price of the latter.

[thomaspp]

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[ap1]

^ nice pic. Looks like it gets the more vibrant blue over the common mans blue/grey 11/12