Purchase from newbie TRF member: A Sad Story

[Saoirse32]

Hi Everyone,
I debated sharing this story but another TRF member encouraged me to tell this tale in order to possibly protect those now and in the future who plan on purchasing a pre-owned watch from this unnamed seller. I’m sure there are also some obscure rules which prevent me from “outing” this not-so-honest member so I will not name him or his alleged location. However, if the Mods and others are interested, I’m sure you can PM me and I would gladly tell you, especially if you are planning to purchase from him. As you can clearly see from my profile, I’ve only been a member for approximately two years. However, in that time, I’ve come to know, meet, and have successful relationships with other members both on here and WUS. This includes buying and selling watches, including Rolex and others, which have always had positive outcomes.
Please note that the details below are used to provide a narrative and do not include every fact and aspect involving this transaction and seller but merely enough to establish what had really happened (and to keep this post as short as possible):
The problem began a little more than a week ago when I began negotiations with this member to purchase a preowned Rolex. As it was told to me, the watch was approximately five months old and had been purchased by the seller from the AD in Canada while he was there on a business trip. The seller had paid cash, the card was stamped with the date (unnamed buyer) and had the Rolex AD stamped on it as well. The pictures looked great, the seller appeared to be a collector, owner, and flipper (had a decent amount of posts not unlike many of us), and the price was in the reasonable range of other Rolex watches in like condition for sale. We agreed on price and I paid. The communication was great and I was really excited. The seller shipped the watch promptly and I received it in a few days. As I went through the package and watch, this is where my true curiosity peeked and I began to be suspicious. So the complete package contained a bezel protector that seemed old for a newer watch and paperwork from Rolex Italia, including some legalese card about the fact the bracelet contains nickel and an instructional booklet for that particular model in Italian. The warranty card was moderately damaged, the word “oyster” was nearly completely rubbed off and the anti-counterfeiting printing on the back of the card where the AD is stamped was partially rubbed off, damaged/missing as well. I was confused and suspicious at this point- something didn’t feel right, especially because this Rolex came from an AD in Canada. I immediately contacted the seller to inform him of my issues. His response was basically a hodgepodge of fairly “believable” reasons for these issues but still had no explanation for the Italian booklet. I still wasn’t satisfied. He insisted the watch was legitimate and told me to contact the AD where it was purchased. So the next morning I did and they were very helpful. Basically, they confirmed via the serial number that the watch was sold by them to a very regular customer who owns a business buying and selling Rolex (among others) watches. Here, the story still didn’t jive because per the AD, the original buyer of my watch was a regular (see above) but the seller in question and subject of this post stated this was the only watch he had ever purchased outside the U.S. I quickly confronted him with this fact (why would a Rolex AD tell me false info) and he again didn’t have an answer for it. I requested a full refund-at this point, I was pretty sure the watch was legit but it wasn’t worth my time or stress to take any chances. The seller refused due to the fact I had had the watch in my possession for, in his words “a few days,” (actually it was less than 24 hours) and claimed I just wanted a refund because of “buyer’s remorse.” In the meantime, I started to really inspect the watch and noticed a less than 1mm gap on the right side where the bracelet meets the lug. It’s very, very subtle and I’m so particular that I was mad I didn’t notice it before. I began to research my seller extremely thoroughly (something I should have done before I bought it). To my surprise and stress, I saw that he had the same profile(s) on another forum and had been banned. My heart sank! My schedule didn’t permit me to go to a Rolex Service Center till yesterday (Thursday, two days after being in possession of the watch) but since he wouldn’t take it back, I figured I needed it checked out and after seeing how he had multiple profiles on different forums selling all kinds of watches (all with different stories), I needed to be sure. In addition, the watch was keeping poor time, losing almost 6 seconds per 12 hours (completely unacceptable). Longest story short, Rolex Service Center confirmed that the watch and movement were real; however, the bottom part of the movement had been damaged due to some type of jarring “drop” and/or “banging” (they couldn’t say for sure) and they confirmed that the watch was not keeping time within acceptable Rolex specs, (although it was only a few seconds off specs where my timing was about 6). They also informed me that the slight gap where the bracelet meets the right lug was basically caused by a “botch job” polishing of the bracelet and case. RSC even pointed out where there was a ding under the bracelet and that I would have to live with it until it was serviced next. Thankfully, they honored the warranty even though how it was damaged as they diagnosed it is not normally covered. All in all, I have nothing but praise for the RSC in LA-they were informative and awesome and they would not have kept the watch for service if they’re wasn’t a true issue. As far as the polishing, I was pretty pissed because this was never disclosed to me by the seller and I certainly wouldn’t have purchased it had I had know that a less than six month old watch was in need of polishing. In the end, the RSC has my watch for at least the next couple of weeks to get it right, I’m out time and stress, and the seller goes on selling watches to unsuspecting members. Although some may take the “who cares, it’s real,” route, I care about a watch’s history as well as it’s authenticity, it goes toward the whole story. I guess buying pre-owned comes with risks, I just never expected these issues but hopefully my story will help others. Thank you!

[rr-nyc]

Holy smokes, thats a long paragraph

What does the seller have to say?

[Presa canary]

Sorry to hear this. Hopefully rsc makes it like new again. This wouldn't happen to be the buyer who held onto the watch for 10 days, would it? Either way, I'd be pissed too. Best of luck with this outcome

[Hairdude1]

Wow, thanks for sharing this. I am glad RSC is taking great care of you

[anilzat]

Good news it's real, bad news it's damaged. I hope you can live with it, sorry to hear that you had been misinformed about the Rolex. Were you able to determine where it was purchased?

[Saoirse32]

Yes, everything checked out and it was purchased at a rolex AD in Canada, probably by a broker/reseller who then sold it to the guy I bought it from. Good news is that there us still 19 months left on the warranty. Never quite figured out what's up with all the Italian paperwork though

[bigrustypig]

Not good at all. I hope all things work out well.

[Old Expat Beast]

Sorry to hear about this. Is this person a regular/frequent seller here?

[Saoirse32]

Somewhat

[unclesallie]

you have raised legitimate issues. I'm not sure of the rules about "outing" someone with whom you have a dispute, but I would check with a Mod first, as you rightly reflect. This isn't good, although the relief is(as you point out) that the watch is authentic rolex.
However, this is shoddy practice, and unethical, and needs to be stopped, IMHO.

[Saoirse32]

Agreed, the whole thing stunk and ruined my feelings and experience about the purchase. I guess there's always a chance that the seller didn't know certain things but they're just to many holes in his lame story. At the end of the day though, I thank God that it's a rolex and not some very good fake!

[Gaijin]

If you are going to grumble about this member in an effort to possibly protect others then that member should be identified and given the opportunity to tell their version of the events. We need to know. Especially if this person was banned from a different watch forum.

[Saoirse32]

If you mean by my grumbling it's complaining, you can PM me and ask. While he is entitled to his side, I highly doubt that he will pipe up. I'm sure he'd rather lay low. He has in fact, been banned in another forum. And I believe I'm being mature and not dropping his name all over the forum as others who have messaged me can attest. What's up? If you're buying from someone, let me know and I will tell you if it's the same guy.

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

If you are going to grumble about this member in an effort to possibly protect others then that member should be identified and given the opportunity to tell their version of the events. We need to know. Especially if this person was banned from a different watch forum.

Agreed, all the OP post has accomplished in my opinion is to taint the reputation of other good sellers ,sort of twist on the guilt by association. No naming no complaining or what is the point of the worlds longest paragraph. I sometimes wonder if these sort of posts without any substantiation or opportunity for rebuttals are attempts to leverage something from a seller. Not saying its the case here but no naming no complaining is my attitude. Personally I think the watch out section should be the place for grips and accusations and again no naming no complaining.

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by Saoirse32

If you mean by my grumbling it's complaining, you can PM me and ask. While he is entitled to his side, I highly doubt that he will pipe up. I'm sure he'd rather lay low. He has in fact, been banned in another forum. And I believe I'm being mature and not dropping his name all over the forum as others who have messaged me can attest. What's up? If you're buying from someone, let me know and I will tell you if it's the same guy.

So you want us to vet our purchases through you.

[Saoirse32]

To Cornerstone: Thanks for the attack, much appreciated as if this week hasn't sucked enough. There's no leverage here-the seller refused a refund, I've had the watch for a few days, and it's at RSC for service. Frankly, I've spent to much time, effort, and stress for this watch to part from me now so it's mine. Before you start throwing anonymous darts at me, why don't you stop and think about the realistic reasons why someone like me wouldn't want to say this person's name in an open forum.

[Old Expat Beast]

Really curious about why a watch from a Canadian AD would have Italian paperwork and manual.

[Saoirse32]

Exactly!!

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by Saoirse32

To Cornerstone: Thanks for the attack, much appreciated as if this week hasn't sucked enough. There's no leverage here-the seller refused a refund, I've had the watch for a few days, and it's at RSC for service. Frankly, I've spent to much time, effort, and stress for this watch to part from me now so it's mine. Before you start throwing anonymous darts at me, why don't you stop and think about the realistic reasons why someone like me wouldn't want to say this person's name in an open forum.

No attack by me just an observation about these sorts of unsubstantiated posts.NO NAMING NO COMPAINING is my opinion and I wished it was policy.I can't see one realistic reason why anyone would not name someone who wronged them and would go to lengths to attack them unless you hope to salvage something from the relationship. You sir are throwing anonymous darts not me, you post about some hypothetical bogey man and allow no opportunity for them to explain themselves. Your post taints all TRF sellers including me so no naming no complaining. Mods please lock this thread .

[Saoirse32]

I'm been a seller as well. And genius, this seller has not only my name but my address etc. I see no need to name him except privately, if/when someone is in the market or negotiations with a seller. Don't you think that makes sense? And what possible reason would I have for making this up? I own the watch now...if I tried to sell it, a good buyer would search my name, threads, posts, etc. and see this watch's history. It's well past the refund stage and I'm simply trying to help others here. Your weird "no naming, no complaining" is unwarranted.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Saoirse32

I'm been a seller as well. And genius, this seller has not only my name but my address etc. I see no need to name him except privately, if/when someone is in the market or negotiations with a seller. Don't you think that makes sense? And what possible reason would I have for making this up? I own the watch now...if I tried to sell it, a good buyer would search my name, threads, posts, etc. and see this watch's history. It's well past the refund stage and I'm simply trying to help others here. Your weird "no naming, no complaining" is unwarranted.

No one would know if you tried to sell the watch here, because you haven't said what model it is or posted pics.

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by Saoirse32

I'm been a seller as well. And genius, this seller has not only my name but my address etc. I see no need to name him except privately, if/when someone is in the market or negotiations with a seller. Don't you think that makes sense? And what possible reason would I have for making this up? I own the watch now...if I tried to sell it, a good buyer would search my name, threads, posts, etc. and see this watch's history. It's well past the refund stage and I'm simply trying to help others here. Your weird "no naming, no complaining" is unwarranted.

[kilyung]

IMO, when a buyer has an issue and the parties can't resolve the issue or if either party unilaterally posts about the transaction then I think the community at large should know who the parties are. That is to protect the community and give the other party an opportunity to voice their side.

[Saoirse32]

To those who have pm'd me and asked my help and/or offered support, thank you. I guess some people just don't understand...

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Really curious about why a watch from a Canadian AD would have Italian paperwork and manual.

Easy ,the OP has to ask the AD if no answer than go to Rolex Canada

[Saoirse32]

I asked the AD in Canada from where the watch was originally purchased. They said no way that rolex or any rolex from Canada would have an Italian book. Who knows?

[Passionata]

Wait ,clarification please ,the warranty card is italian or canadian?

[Saoirse32]

Canadian. Accompanying instruction booklet etc from rolex italy

[Passionata]

Okay booklet isn t a big deal however i can understand your frustration ,actually a proper booklet you can ask from the AD -they got tons in the stock-,you may can require compensation from the seller for the undiclosed polishing &hassle.

[slomo]

Sounds like he didn't have the complete set so he put together leftovers from what he had to advertise and sell as complete.... but for sure the undisclosed damage and polish is inexcusable