The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 4 December 2022, 07:57 AM   #1
AP15407st_patrick
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: UAE, UK
Posts: 14
AP 15407st Certificate of authenticity

I am facing a lot of issues and would like to know your honest opinion about the following case. Assume you would have a so called certificate of authenticity by Audemars Piguet where your watch will be send to Switzerland and inspected as well as analyzed by AP. They will take pictures of your watch and prepare a document which certifies your watch is original. It cost 2,5kCHF and is not comparable with the archive paper. Let’s assume you only have this document, the original invoice as well as box and manual. Further an original picture of the guarantee card where the QR Code on it is readable. Would you still consider a discount for this set compared to a normal set and if so how much difference would you assume. I was faced by a Robbery and my guarantee card was stolen. Fortunately not the watch and my insurance company might pay for the certificate of authenticity but I am still not sure how much loss these robbery caused in my collection that’s why I am asking for your honest opinion. Keep in mind I have pictures of the original card and it’s readable but I do not have the physical version anymore
AP15407st_patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 December 2022, 08:49 AM   #2
Arnozerosix
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: france
Posts: 55
hummmm, sorry to hear your story...
would you buy any modern hot watch 100k + without original card ? I mean it is not a 5402 which can live with an extract and be sold for 10/20 % less on the secondary market...

Personally I would not ask for a discount, Instead I would buy another one.
Your insurance company should understand that nowadays, your watch is not a watch per se, it is part of a set, and the value of 100k+ if for the set, a partial set for such products is good to live on a wrist but has no resale or collector value for the moment. it will change in 20 years certainly, but if you want to resale the watch in 2 years, you will certainly struggle to find a buyer at "around" market price.

if AP is really offering a customer service at the level on what one might expect they should study your watch and documents and reissue an original card for you.
Arnozerosix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 December 2022, 10:00 AM   #3
AP15407st_patrick
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: UAE, UK
Posts: 14
Thanks very kind. The thing is that no insurance company would ever understand it neither pay for it. They mentioned in their terms and conditions they will pay for a replacement. According to AP boutique the replacement is the certificate of authenticity. As AP would also communicate this to the insurance company there is really not much I can do against.

In terms of your question what I would do? I am not sure if I can still be objective but I know how these paper certificate will look like and what AP is doing with the watch to get this document. I like this document a lot and if we really look closely what is the value of a plastic card with a serial number on it ( where I still have it as a picture) when you can have an original signed AP document with your watch in every detail signed by an AP watchmaker who controlled and checked your watch. I know the plastic card is important but is it that Important that you would not buy the watch or ask a discount if 10-15% which is 10-15k US dollar? I am really in doubt especially if I also have the original invoice. The question at the end is what is the guarantee card adding in terms of value the mentioned documents cannot add beside the fact to say the paper document was not part of the initial supply package whereas the plastic card was.
AP15407st_patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 December 2022, 10:55 AM   #4
Reign
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by AP15407st_patrick View Post
Thanks very kind. The thing is that no insurance company would ever understand it neither pay for it. They mentioned in their terms and conditions they will pay for a replacement. According to AP boutique the replacement is the certificate of authenticity. As AP would also communicate this to the insurance company there is really not much I can do against.

In terms of your question what I would do? I am not sure if I can still be objective but I know how these paper certificate will look like and what AP is doing with the watch to get this document. I like this document a lot and if we really look closely what is the value of a plastic card with a serial number on it ( where I still have it as a picture) when you can have an original signed AP document with your watch in every detail signed by an AP watchmaker who controlled and checked your watch. I know the plastic card is important but is it that Important that you would not buy the watch or ask a discount if 10-15% which is 10-15k US dollar? I am really in doubt especially if I also have the original invoice. The question at the end is what is the guarantee card adding in terms of value the mentioned documents cannot add beside the fact to say the paper document was not part of the initial supply package whereas the plastic card was.

Someone will bite at the right price but itíll be a meaningful discount compared to someone selling that has a full set.

Prices have been trending down so who knows how much of a haircut youíll have to take is but you need to consider that buyers have options when it comes to how many are for sale. This isnít a 1 of 10 piece where the seller has more leverage, there are tons of 15407s floating around.

Flip it around and if you were a buyer for a $150k piece, what would you require for full peace of mind


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 December 2022, 08:12 PM   #5
Arnozerosix
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: france
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by AP15407st_patrick View Post
Thanks very kind. The thing is that no insurance company would ever understand it neither pay for it. They mentioned in their terms and conditions they will pay for a replacement. According to AP boutique the replacement is the certificate of authenticity. As AP would also communicate this to the insurance company there is really not much I can do against.

In terms of your question what I would do? I am not sure if I can still be objective but I know how these paper certificate will look like and what AP is doing with the watch to get this document. I like this document a lot and if we really look closely what is the value of a plastic card with a serial number on it ( where I still have it as a picture) when you can have an original signed AP document with your watch in every detail signed by an AP watchmaker who controlled and checked your watch. I know the plastic card is important but is it that Important that you would not buy the watch or ask a discount if 10-15% which is 10-15k US dollar? I am really in doubt especially if I also have the original invoice. The question at the end is what is the guarantee card adding in terms of value the mentioned documents cannot add beside the fact to say the paper document was not part of the initial supply package whereas the plastic card was.
Somehow your point is reasonable as well...
The main question ( & AP should be able to reply), is "would it be possible for someone with your registration card in hand to register the property of your watch" ...
Then you would also open a serious question in the AP security system, at that point may be with all your original documents AP will consider you are THE owner of the product and the former card should be deactivated and a new one should be activated - Very easy, just need to deactivate the former serial number form their database and replace it by a new serial (Same serial/X for example) serial. and issue a corresponding card. everything would be clean for you, no damage they charge you X000$ paid by your insurance and everybody is happy....

I don't know how AP is handling his registration card/database, but in my business I do have a registration system as well where I also offer a warranty extension on product registration, and in such case I would reissue a card and just desactivate the former one/former serial number like above described.... & I would just charge you the cost of a service for that.... This is the difference between a customer service desk and a real customer experience...

--> i am sure a nice letter addressed to AP's CEO explaining your problem and showing your original AP invoice and watch document (specially when a customer gets a 15407 st from a boutique I can easily guess it is not his first AP .... ) and he should understand it, I can't believe they don't have a process for that...
Arnozerosix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 December 2022, 09:12 PM   #6
GS93108
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,190
iMO you’ll never need the warranty card itself. If your watch is still under warrant then AP will know from a simple database search. Does registering for the extended 3 additional years still exist? I know that AP Houses register the watch automatically and add it to my account, so I’m assuming that might be the current MO for all AP points of sale these days. Regardless, you adding a watch to your account only requires the serial number and warranty number and thus a watch becomes active on your own account.
After 5 years the warrant card loses any/all real world functional value. Does a plastic warranty card thereafter matter to anyone at all?
My opinion means nothing on the above but I’d suggest you contact the AP House in the region that supplied the watch. If that’s London then for sure they’ll tell you all you need to know.
To be honest I don’t understand how an insurance company would even entertain a claim such as yours. I know mine covers ‘sets’ e.g. one item of a pair of earrings, but I’ve no idea how I’d ask them to value a piece of plastic that doesn’t impact the actual warrant itself. Good for you.
Bottom line is that if you aren’t planning on selling the watch inside of five years from new then the next purchaser has lost nothing. If you do sell within five years then the next purchaser has lost nothing as long as they can register the watch online.
An authenticity check by AP seems moot as it doesn’t speak to the issue you have.
GS93108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 December 2022, 01:11 AM   #7
AP15407st_patrick
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: UAE, UK
Posts: 14
Hi All,
I really have no words to explain how much this robbery hurts. I am struggling to find my way either to be happy that I still have the watch or to be totally sad that I lost a main document and my watch is affected by a huge hit in resale value. I asked a few collectors around the globe and dealers so far most of them told me that the certificate of authenticity is nice but it will never replace the plastic card. According to their view, even with the replacements the watch might have a value 10% below the average market value or even more. If I told them I still have pictures of the card and the QR code is readable as well as the original invoice and if they want I can add the guarantee of authenticity and the archive papers their opinion is still the same in terms of the value difference. Of course they want to sell and buy in for cheap prices but they also referred to auction results and told me my watch is no more a full set it’s like a set without papers. If this is true why are there Service documents available by AP and why people are purchasing them if the value is 0. of course I already asked AP and my boutique contacts but they told me according to their policy they cannot replace it even with the police report they cannot do anything. I know about another AP15407st currently for sale and the owner lost his guarantee card. Also in this case AP is not willing to replace.
The thing is if a plastic card is worth 10-15k there are a lot of original blank AP cards available so really not sure why this card should have such a huge value and the original paper documents are not. The only argument I can understand is that collectors want to have full sets but then the question is will this watch ever become a real collectors items as it was not Limited and like you said there are many in the market. As their are many you have a choice but at the end you need to question yourself are you willing to spend more for a plastic card or if you think paper documents are sufficient and their value might be even higher as original owners also need to buy them and they will really reflect the authenticity of the watch whereas the guarantee card definitely not
AP15407st_patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 December 2022, 01:21 AM   #8
GS93108
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,190
If AP has told you there’s no replacement then that’s it, move on.
You bought a watch - enjoy it. Too much talk of resale value these days, you’ve lost nothing in my opinion other than a piece of plastic.
GS93108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 December 2022, 05:05 AM   #9
thekman
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Boston
Watch: 16610LV
Posts: 999
Seriously dude? You are lucky enough to own a 15407ST which most of this forum's members would give an arm and a leg to enjoy and you are whining that it maybe 10% less than the grey market value of the watch? As GS93108 said you lost nothing. Enjoy this grail watch and if all you care about is future resale value then maybe you shouldn't have bought this watch as you are clearly not enjoying it.
__________________
Rolex | AP | Cartier | VC | Lange

Follow me www.instagram.com/subs.n.scrubs
thekman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 December 2022, 06:20 AM   #10
VogelPhoenix
"TRF" Member
 
VogelPhoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 2,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by AP15407st_patrick View Post
Hi All,
According to their view, even with the replacements the watch might have a value 10% below the average market value or even more. If I told them I still have pictures of the card and the QR code is readable as well as the original invoice and if they want I can add the guarantee of authenticity and the archive papers their opinion is still the same in terms of the value difference.
If the choice is between a watch (or a car, or a house, or basically anything of value) with a "story" and an otherwise identical one without story, how many people would go for the one with the story? And of course the dealer's reaction to the missing card will depend entirely on whether they're buying or selling...

However, unless this was an "investment" and the sale imminent, you lost nothing. You still have a 15407 to wear as you please, which many of us are dreaming of. If AP offered me a 15407 w/o the plastic card, I'd be there in a minute, lower resale value be damned.
VogelPhoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 December 2022, 01:08 PM   #11
Mr.GL
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Asia
Posts: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix View Post
If the choice is between a watch (or a car, or a house, or basically anything of value) with a "story" and an otherwise identical one without story, how many people would go for the one with the story? And of course the dealer's reaction to the missing card will depend entirely on whether they're buying or selling...

However, unless this was an "investment" and the sale imminent, you lost nothing. You still have a 15407 to wear as you please, which many of us are dreaming of. If AP offered me a 15407 w/o the plastic card, I'd be there in a minute, lower resale value be damned.
Well said

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
Mr.GL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

DavidSW Watches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2023, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.