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Old 6 December 2022, 06:28 AM   #31
GW44
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Depends on the boutique but the majority will strip it down before you walk out


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Certainly the case for AP House here in the Uk I’m pleased to say.
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Old 6 December 2022, 06:45 AM   #32
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I always liked the code, and have one incoming this month. I also would like a Steel RO, should I bring it up as soon as I pick up the code or wait a bit, or does it not matter?
I'd bring it up right away. And let them know that you understand it'll take time. But there's no benefit to waiting to let them know.
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Old 6 December 2022, 06:45 AM   #33
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No improvement for me I'm sad to say =(
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Old 6 December 2022, 07:09 AM   #34
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I was offered my choice of skeleton, ultra-thin or CE... Then I woke up

In all honesty, the lists at AP are sooo long and interest so high, I'd imagine not a lot to change for boutique retail.

It'll take some lengthy time to work through the demand backlog IMO
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Old 8 December 2022, 11:58 AM   #35
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I was offered my first AP this week, but declined as I really prefer a 41mm on bracelet. I was offered a 43mm ROO taupe. On the other hand, I've decided to go with a Patek 5524r, which I absolutely love.

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Old 8 December 2022, 02:30 PM   #36
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Apparently, there will be lots of new Codes coming next year. The reason to buy a Code from the boutique is obviously to build a history towards what you may really want, such as a steel Jumbo. But if you really want a Code, then grey may not be a bad idea. I was told the 16202 has to be approved by Switzerland and you need a decent shopping history.
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Old 8 December 2022, 06:47 PM   #37
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It’s a good pick. Wear safe
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Old 8 December 2022, 10:34 PM   #38
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AP make a huge mistake in my humble opinion….
They do a big step when decide to close all retailers and keep only his Boutiques…..
Then in this hype sell 50 Anniversary to very much customers who in the end shows there are only flippers….. yes you could afford to lose money on a CODE if you received an RO anniversary who you sell with higher profit….
So, look how the things looks now, Chrono24 are full of 15510, 26240 50 anniversary and the price it’s going down and down…… see some 15510 50 anniversary there are more cheaper then RO 15500….
In this condition 50 anniversary who was supposed to be for the AP funs or AP lovers are ending on grey market….
If AP don’t wake up soon and change policy then the price will come below retail in the near future…..
I see someone compare with Patek, I am not Nautilus fun but I must admit that when Patek say it’s the last green itinerary of 5711 after one year stop production…..
From what I understand green AP will be in production in the future so nothing special….
Just my 2 cents
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Old 8 December 2022, 11:36 PM   #39
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AP make a huge mistake in my humble opinion….
They do a big step when decide to close all retailers and keep only his Boutiques…..
Then in this hype sell 50 Anniversary to very much customers who in the end shows there are only flippers….. yes you could afford to lose money on a CODE if you received an RO anniversary who you sell with higher profit….
So, look how the things looks now, Chrono24 are full of 15510, 26240 50 anniversary and the price it’s going down and down…… see some 15510 50 anniversary there are more cheaper then RO 15500….
In this condition 50 anniversary who was supposed to be for the AP funs or AP lovers are ending on grey market….
If AP don’t wake up soon and change policy then the price will come below retail in the near future…..
I see someone compare with Patek, I am not Nautilus fun but I must admit that when Patek say it’s the last green itinerary of 5711 after one year stop production…..
From what I understand green AP will be in production in the future so nothing special….
Just my 2 cents
Yes, agreed. With codes and ROOs trading markedly below MSRP, and ROs trending in that direction, it’s just a matter of time. In fact, I’ve seen 15510s, 15500s, 26331s, and 15400s trading for less than a 20% premium over MSRP+tax
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Old 8 December 2022, 11:57 PM   #40
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Everything is coming down not just AP. Some Richards are trading under MSRP. At the end of the day let the people in the market just for the hype leave, and let’s see who’s really passionate about the brand stay.
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Old 9 December 2022, 01:28 AM   #41
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Honestly, I just want to buy my watch at AP House. I'm asking for a 37mm which I don't think is that popular but it's still hard to get.
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Old 9 December 2022, 02:40 AM   #42
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AP make a huge mistake in my humble opinion….
They do a big step when decide to close all retailers and keep only his Boutiques…..
Then in this hype sell 50 Anniversary to very much customers who in the end shows there are only flippers….. yes you could afford to lose money on a CODE if you received an RO anniversary who you sell with higher profit….
So, look how the things looks now, Chrono24 are full of 15510, 26240 50 anniversary and the price it’s going down and down…… see some 15510 50 anniversary there are more cheaper then RO 15500….
In this condition 50 anniversary who was supposed to be for the AP funs or AP lovers are ending on grey market….
If AP don’t wake up soon and change policy then the price will come below retail in the near future…..
I see someone compare with Patek, I am not Nautilus fun but I must admit that when Patek say it’s the last green itinerary of 5711 after one year stop production…..
From what I understand green AP will be in production in the future so nothing special….
Just my 2 cents

Why are prices coming down a bad thing? It was never sustainable to have your entire product portfolio be worth more than MSRP as you walk out the store.

It’s fine to have a few pieces be above retail as a reward / gift (similar to a Birkin bag).

Based on what you’re saying, true fans of AP can get their 15510 or 26240 below retail soon and that’s bad?

It’s pretty clear to me a lot of this forum transitioned to hype following members and I look forward to weeding those folks out so we actually talk about watches again


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Old 9 December 2022, 05:41 AM   #43
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Everything is coming down not just AP. Some Richards are trading under MSRP. At the end of the day let the people in the market just for the hype leave, and let’s see who’s really passionate about the brand stay.
Exactly. Maybe this is how those of us that have been complaining about flippers can finally get that previously unattainable piece.
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Old 9 December 2022, 06:52 AM   #44
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Why are prices coming down a bad thing? It was never sustainable to have your entire product portfolio be worth more than MSRP as you walk out the store.

It’s fine to have a few pieces be above retail as a reward / gift (similar to a Birkin bag).

Based on what you’re saying, true fans of AP can get their 15510 or 26240 below retail soon and that’s bad?

It’s pretty clear to me a lot of this forum transitioned to hype following members and I look forward to weeding those folks out so we actually talk about watches again


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Not sure if Xerxes actually said that... May be more of a language issue.

I read his post more like despite the model changing, a lot of very desirable watches (50th, 16202s) ended up in flipper hands... Maybe he can confirm
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Old 9 December 2022, 08:30 AM   #45
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Why are prices coming down a bad thing? It was never sustainable to have your entire product portfolio be worth more than MSRP as you walk out the store.

It’s fine to have a few pieces be above retail as a reward / gift (similar to a Birkin bag).

Based on what you’re saying, true fans of AP can get their 15510 or 26240 below retail soon and that’s bad?

It’s pretty clear to me a lot of this forum transitioned to hype following members and I look forward to weeding those folks out so we actually talk about watches again


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Sorry if I was misunderstood
What I want to say is that AP lovers from many years, (I have a relationship with an AP Boutique from more then 15 years and I have in my collection many pieces who I buy from AP Boutique when I can buy it from more then 20% off from grey market with all discount I received in the store), can’t or very hard are qualified to get a 50 anniversary 15510 or 26240.
I will give an example: I buy in 2018 a ROC 26331 blue with 21000€ with 15% discount and If I buy it from grey at that time I can buy it new unworn with
19500-20000€ at that time. Or I remind that I buy a ROO Vampire with 22500€ from AP Boutique and on grey was 17500€ new!
So, many of this watches are allocated to new clients who are buy a CODE or a ROO and then sell it for profit. Profit are only what they want. Please check how many 15510 or 26240 are on Chrono 24 for sell.
Yes, I must admit that I was happy when I see that AP start to keep it’s value like Rolex and Patek. I think 90% from us on this forum feel the same.
I don’t buy it for value but a brand like AP keep his reputations by hold his value. If not they will be like other great watches who are loose 40% of price after you live the store like Breguet or Ulysse Nardin.
Why we are talking with respect about Patek Philippe? Because they follow the rules in favor of them customers and assure customers that will buy a piece for next generation.
AP make a big step and cut all retailers to can control the selling of his timepieces and then after put all the moves in shadows because sell 50 anniversary to many new customers who fulfilled grey market with this pieces…… It’s that correct in your view?
I talk about this with my AD but unfortunately they need to make customers profile and then especially for new clients AP decided who received a 50 anniversary piece.
I can’t complain, I received this year 15407 and green 15510(you can check I posted when I received) but see many AP lovers who are not in my situation and maybe a 50 anniversary make them proud and bring happiness but they don’t received nothing.
You ask me what it’s wrong when price of 50 anniversary are below retail price. In my humble opinion if this happens that means this timepieces are on wrong customer target because if it was on AP lovers this things doesn’t happen. I want to see one AP real lovers who want to sell his 50 anniversary piece below what he paid……..you never see this in my humble view.
On other hand like you say what it’s wrong that in grey market price are under MRSP? I tell you what it’s wrong, that means that AP will comeback on 2012 and nobody want to buy AP from Boutique only if they will have a great discount.
Also customers trusted in AP will be down…..
I think most of us on this forum are buying AP watches for what they are and because we loved them but nobody want to see his watches value becoming half of what they paid.
I think I was more clear what I want to say….
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Old 9 December 2022, 09:38 AM   #46
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Yep, IMO AP screwed up massively this year. Firstly they put the 50th rotor on pretty much everything (rather than just the jumbo) thereby creating a hype that really just fuelled the crazy market further. Then, on top of that madness, they gave 50th pieces to new clients - almost without a care in the world. Existing clients became pissed offed and those lucky new clients then cashed in and further pissed the rest of us off. Finally, what was supposed to be a massive year for AP turned out to be just another year IMO, nothing wow at all.
AP make mistakes and I forgive them, they don’t make many, but they can’t make another one of this magnitude too soon. It’s the ROOs bday next year and APs bday two years later - they had better step up their game.

All that said I agree with Reign’s sentiment that we used to be a community of watch nerds - now we are so concerned about value - I’d love for the good old days to return.
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Old 9 December 2022, 10:11 AM   #47
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I'm just glad AP save the 50th full ceramic ROC to the last.
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Old 9 December 2022, 11:01 AM   #48
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I'm just glad AP save the 50th full ceramic ROC to the last.
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Old 9 December 2022, 11:21 AM   #49
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I'm just glad AP save the 50th full ceramic ROC to the last.
When I said there was nothing 'wow' this year I of course meant WOWOWOWOWOW befitting a 50th bday and sort of what AP led us to believe.

The 50th ROC CE is of course wow in any year :)

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Old 9 December 2022, 12:15 PM   #50
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Yep, IMO AP screwed up massively this year. Firstly they put the 50th rotor on pretty much everything (rather than just the jumbo) thereby creating a hype that really just fuelled the crazy market further. Then, on top of that madness, they gave 50th pieces to new clients - almost without a care in the world. Existing clients became pissed offed and those lucky new clients then cashed in and further pissed the rest of us off. Finally, what was supposed to be a massive year for AP turned out to be just another year IMO, nothing wow at all.
AP make mistakes and I forgive them, they don’t make many, but they can’t make another one of this magnitude too soon. It’s the ROOs bday next year and APs bday two years later - they had better step up their game.

All that said I agree with Reign’s sentiment that we used to be a community of watch nerds - now we are so concerned about value - I’d love for the good old days to return.

Well said...
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Old 9 December 2022, 02:10 PM   #51
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Finally, what was supposed to be a massive year for AP turned out to be just another year IMO, nothing wow at all.
Going to subjectively and politefully disagree. The launch of the new dark green dial RO/ROC is an incredible new dial. Jumbo skeleton? Yes please. Code Star Wheel. Incredible, I actually want to own a code now. Ceramic ROC. Yes Please. Red QP. HELL YES. Blue Ceramic QP. New and unique. YG Jumbo with burnt dial. Yes Please. New dimple dial tourbs. Amazing. What are we talking about here. Sorry, AP crushed it this year, one of the best years for them in a LONG time. Do we lack so much altruism that we can't share a silly 50th rotor with someone who is new and appreciates the brand? We should be welcoming newcomers to the brand, not hoarding all things because we are long time clientele of the brand.
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Old 9 December 2022, 02:15 PM   #52
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Are allocations improving at Boutiques?

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Going to subjectively and politefully disagree. The launch of the new dark green dial RO/ROC is an incredible new dial. Jumbo skeleton? Yes please. Code Star Wheel. Incredible. Ceramic ROC. Yes Please. Red QP. HELL YES. Blue Ceramic QP. New and unique. YG Jumbo with burnt dial. Yes Please. What are we talking about here. Sorry, AP crushed it this year, one of the best years for them in a LONG time. Do we lack so much altruism that we can't share a silly 50th rotor with someone who is new and appreciates the brand? We should be welcoming newcomers to the brand, not hoarding all things because we are long time clientele of the brand.

Amen.
25 years collecting wrist things here. First AP for me. Much appreciate this put into words.

What new collectors don’t quite get is this hobby needs fresh meat. To sustain enthusiasm, the base needs to be forever-expanding. I’m glad to be added to the AP base this year.





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Old 9 December 2022, 02:40 PM   #53
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Amen.
25 years collecting wrist things here. First AP for me. Much appreciate this put into words.

What new collectors don’t quite get is this hobby needs fresh meat. To sustain enthusiasm, the base needs to be forever-expanding. I’m glad to be added to the AP base this year.





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My issue is that allocation criteria aren't transparent at all - why is it that some newbies get allocated and some don't? Nobody actually knows.

I was only fortunate enough to start working 5 years ago and now make enough to buy APs. I'd like to think I have a decent social profile / work in a respectable sector.

I collect watches that lose 30% - 40% of value when they hit the wrist and I wear them to my visits to AP so I think they know I'm not going to flip.

I've also heard stories about how some people walked in with a rare FP Journe and immediately got allocated a 15500st.

Conscious that AP only makes between 45k - 50k watches per year but if they can be a bit more transparent with the allocation criteria they'd piss less people off.
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Old 9 December 2022, 04:02 PM   #54
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To OP, yes it is. I also think people are starting to turn down pieces as the screws keep tightening economically.

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My issue is that allocation criteria aren't transparent at all - why is it that some newbies get allocated and some don't? Nobody actually knows.

I was only fortunate enough to start working 5 years ago and now make enough to buy APs. I'd like to think I have a decent social profile / work in a respectable sector.

I collect watches that lose 30% - 40% of value when they hit the wrist and I wear them to my visits to AP so I think they know I'm not going to flip.

I've also heard stories about how some people walked in with a rare FP Journe and immediately got allocated a 15500st.

Conscious that AP only makes between 45k - 50k watches per year but if they can be a bit more transparent with the allocation criteria they'd piss less people off.
I think they've already tried transparent at few places and realized it's much better to be opaque. Because if the capricious process were transparent, even more would actually be upset.

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Going to subjectively and politefully disagree. The launch of the new dark green dial RO/ROC is an incredible new dial. Jumbo skeleton? Yes please. Code Star Wheel. Incredible, I actually want to own a code now. Ceramic ROC. Yes Please. Red QP. HELL YES. Blue Ceramic QP. New and unique. YG Jumbo with burnt dial. Yes Please. New dimple dial tourbs. Amazing. What are we talking about here. Sorry, AP crushed it this year, one of the best years for them in a LONG time. Do we lack so much altruism that we can't share a silly 50th rotor with someone who is new and appreciates the brand? We should be welcoming newcomers to the brand, not hoarding all things because we are long time clientele of the brand.
I think maybe 2022 felt lackluster because it has felt so long temporally -- to me actually feels like three years has passed already since annoucement of new ROC. When thinking back to the launch in January (last of the koolaid before punch bowl removed), then Ukraine/Russia, then side SOFI bet... It feels like years has passed to arrive at the era I'm currently in with funky starwheel dials.

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Also customers trusted in AP will be down…..
I think most of us on this forum are buying AP watches for what they are and because we loved them but nobody want to see his watches value becoming half of what they paid.
I think I was more clear what I want to say….
I think this describes how I feel, AP broke some trust and brand promise. (Or at least it is not uniform enough) e.g. A brand can't say we will reward loyal high spend customers with the most sought after pieces then allocate that 'reward' to a new-ish customer. You can of course say we will try to take care of everyone a little bit, everything will be a bit random, but if you switch between the two...broken brand promises on both sides. Might as well buy at a discount on gray again even now if a brand can't keep it's promise.
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Old 9 December 2022, 04:25 PM   #55
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I think they've already tried transparent at few places and realized it's much better to be opaque. Because if the capricious process were transparent, even more would actually be upset.
I'd respectfully disagree on the point that people would be more upset. At least you'd know what the rules to the game are.

e.g. for PP - it's honestly just patience whereby you could just line up for 3 years and then get an aquanaut (not that I want one and assuming you can get onto the list now - they've closed it for now). For Rolex, it's just pay as you go / bundling. For VC, they have two lines, one for those that have a history and ones that don't (at least that's the case in London).

For AP, some say you need purchase history and then some say you don't. There are success stories for both. Then some say its about the relationship. I had a decent relationship with my SA but he quit and now I have a new one. He's great as well but am I at the back of the line now?

Again my issue, perhaps its the way I approach life, is that it is isn't systematic. Perhaps this works for some people but it does irk me.

I do hope that sooner or later, you can walk in and actually get a piece you want. But at the point in which you can purchase something walking-in, wouldn't it be better if you just go straight to the grey market given AP hasn't valued you as a potential customer?
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Old 9 December 2022, 07:47 PM   #56
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Going to subjectively and politefully disagree. The launch of the new dark green dial RO/ROC is an incredible new dial. Jumbo skeleton? Yes please. Code Star Wheel. Incredible, I actually want to own a code now. Ceramic ROC. Yes Please. Red QP. HELL YES. Blue Ceramic QP. New and unique. YG Jumbo with burnt dial. Yes Please. New dimple dial tourbs. Amazing. What are we talking about here. Sorry, AP crushed it this year, one of the best years for them in a LONG time. Do we lack so much altruism that we can't share a silly 50th rotor with someone who is new and appreciates the brand? We should be welcoming newcomers to the brand, not hoarding all things because we are long time clientele of the brand.
For sure you aren’t wrong, it’s a subjective world.
The Green is lovely - but just another colour.
The new jumbo OW is I suppose the actual homage and bday edition.
The blue QP was supposed to be released last year and isn’t 50th and is the old case design language and so on and so on. All models that could have been released in any year.
The actual star of the show - pun intended - is the star wheel (a perfect combo) but it’s ironic that it’s not anything to do with the 50th bday.

Finally, there’s no argument from me that new blood is needed and of course there are many new clients who have waited a long long time and deserve their 50th piece but there are many brand new late to the party types that AP ‘fed’ at the expense of their loyal customers and to my mind that’s where the screwed up - and they know it because HQ changed their policy part way through the year.

Again, I was just extremely underwhelmed because my expectations were too high. Personally I thought at least we may have a new material - BMG perhaps? Or something equally ground breaking but alas not.
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Old 9 December 2022, 08:42 PM   #57
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e.g. for PP - it's honestly just patience whereby you could just line up for 3 years and then get an aquanaut (not that I want one and assuming you can get onto the list now - they've closed it for now). For Rolex, it's just pay as you go / bundling. For VC, they have two lines, one for those that have a history and ones that don't (at least that's the case in London).

In my experience all the brands seem to be similarly vague. After getting my first Patek earlier this year I haven't been able to get anything else yet. Whenever I ask I just get the usual reply they don't know when they will get stock and they'll let me know if anything is available.

All the other brands ask you to go on an interest list and say they don't know if/when you'll ever get a call.

I'd much rather they just tell me straight up I can't get something, or I need to spend $x.xx amount rather than to keep me guessing. But I guess it's good for business and that's a reflection of the market we are currently in now.

In regards to AP I'm new to the brand and I've told them I don't care whether I get a 50th anniversary or not, so hopefully something will happen next year. So far they've offered me a Code RG chrono which I politely turned down.
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Old 10 December 2022, 01:00 AM   #58
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I'd respectfully disagree on the point that people would be more upset. At least you'd know what the rules to the game are.

e.g. for PP - it's honestly just patience whereby you could just line up for 3 years and then get an aquanaut (not that I want one and assuming you can get onto the list now - they've closed it for now).
hmmm I have not heard a single story about ANYONE getting an aquanaut by just waiting. Almost everyone I know has a significant spend history with Patek. On the other hand with AP it seems quite a few people have had ROs as their first watch.
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Old 10 December 2022, 01:37 AM   #59
jingerman
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Originally Posted by NYG1121 View Post
Improved yes but that doesn't mean they want you to believe that. They are going to milk this for as long as possible and get you to buy other things first before blessing you with what you actually want!

Agree with this, heard this happening at many outlets. False scarcity is still a strong strategy used by Rolex dealers.


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Old 10 December 2022, 02:12 AM   #60
Reign
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Originally Posted by Xerxes77 View Post
Sorry if I was misunderstood
What I want to say is that AP lovers from many years, (I have a relationship with an AP Boutique from more then 15 years and I have in my collection many pieces who I buy from AP Boutique when I can buy it from more then 20% off from grey market with all discount I received in the store), can’t or very hard are qualified to get a 50 anniversary 15510 or 26240.
I will give an example: I buy in 2018 a ROC 26331 blue with 21000€ with 15% discount and If I buy it from grey at that time I can buy it new unworn with
19500-20000€ at that time. Or I remind that I buy a ROO Vampire with 22500€ from AP Boutique and on grey was 17500€ new!
So, many of this watches are allocated to new clients who are buy a CODE or a ROO and then sell it for profit. Profit are only what they want. Please check how many 15510 or 26240 are on Chrono 24 for sell.
Yes, I must admit that I was happy when I see that AP start to keep it’s value like Rolex and Patek. I think 90% from us on this forum feel the same.
I don’t buy it for value but a brand like AP keep his reputations by hold his value. If not they will be like other great watches who are loose 40% of price after you live the store like Breguet or Ulysse Nardin.
Why we are talking with respect about Patek Philippe? Because they follow the rules in favor of them customers and assure customers that will buy a piece for next generation.
AP make a big step and cut all retailers to can control the selling of his timepieces and then after put all the moves in shadows because sell 50 anniversary to many new customers who fulfilled grey market with this pieces…… It’s that correct in your view?
I talk about this with my AD but unfortunately they need to make customers profile and then especially for new clients AP decided who received a 50 anniversary piece.
I can’t complain, I received this year 15407 and green 15510(you can check I posted when I received) but see many AP lovers who are not in my situation and maybe a 50 anniversary make them proud and bring happiness but they don’t received nothing.
You ask me what it’s wrong when price of 50 anniversary are below retail price. In my humble opinion if this happens that means this timepieces are on wrong customer target because if it was on AP lovers this things doesn’t happen. I want to see one AP real lovers who want to sell his 50 anniversary piece below what he paid……..you never see this in my humble view.
On other hand like you say what it’s wrong that in grey market price are under MRSP? I tell you what it’s wrong, that means that AP will comeback on 2012 and nobody want to buy AP from Boutique only if they will have a great discount.
Also customers trusted in AP will be down…..
I think most of us on this forum are buying AP watches for what they are and because we loved them but nobody want to see his watches value becoming half of what they paid.
I think I was more clear what I want to say….

All fair points. You have a ton more history than I do FWIW.

Ultimately it’s a delicate balance between appeasing existing clients and drawing new clients into the brand and I don’t blame AP for trying to satisfy both sets.

Reality is that allocations are improving so hopefully everyone will be able to eat again going fwd. that said, to get openworked and ceramic pieces will still remain a high hurdle as it still is


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