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Old 20 March 2020, 06:14 AM   #2851
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I think it’s highly dependent on location. Local to me, they opened a drive thru test facility just yesterday. Despite needing an appointment based on a Doctor’s orders (which requires suspicion of infection), they tested 60 the first day.

It will be interesting to see how many are tested each day to see if this high number on the first day was due to pent-up demand or if infections are really that numerous.


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Philly is ramping up mobile testing: "Officials said there are 14 testing sites open in Philadelphia and by next week a total of 19 sites are expected."

https://6abc.com/covid-19-drive-thru...-area/6027251/
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:28 AM   #2852
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Really disappointed to hear, both from friends/colleagues and the BBC via the news that lots of pubs and restaurants in London are still doing good business with people who don’t seem to give a toss. All whilst hospitals are seeing more and more seriously unwell people coming in.

I would support enforced deprivation of liberty at this stage. There’s always going to be a core of people who will not be told anything. They need to be “persuaded”.
Yes I agree.

I think the PM has handled the situation fairly well overall, but is seriously lacking when he keeps ‘suggesting’ people should not go in pubs or restaurants instead of shutting them down.

I love pubs/restaurants/wine bars and have used them all my life a couple of times a week and am already missing them– but guess I have a bit more willpower than the idiots (many of my friends/acquaintances among them) that are still flocking to them.

They do indeed need to be “persuaded”.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:31 AM   #2853
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I hope that confusion and poor leadership are not going to cause needless deaths.
That quote applies to the US, the UK and Europe.
Apparently some American actress called Evangeline Lilly has said that she values her freedom more than her life so she will be carrying on with life as normal.
People worldwide are idiots and I don't see any great leadership in any of the countries where this is a growing problem.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:34 AM   #2854
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Agree

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Originally Posted by Uggi View Post
That quote applies to the US, the UK and Europe.
Apparently some American actress called Evangeline Lilly has said that she values her freedom more than her life so she will be carrying on with life as normal.
People worldwide are idiots and I don't see any great leadership in any of the countries where this is a growing problem.
The people voted for these leaders. They represent the people who voted for them.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:38 AM   #2855
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The people voted for these leaders. They represent the people who voted for them.
Exactly. A pyramid of idiots.
It's a worldwide problem.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:39 AM   #2856
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Yes I agree.

I think the PM has handled the situation fairly well overall, but is seriously lacking when he keeps ‘suggesting’ people should not go in pubs or restaurants instead of shutting them down.
Exactly. I don’t understand why they’re still open. If people were to do as the government is “suggesting” then all those pubs and eateries would be empty anyway so it’s not like it makes sense to keep them open unless you actually expect people to defy you. It wont look good when, as I fully expect within the next few days, there’s an announcement that they’re all going to be closed.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:39 AM   #2857
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The people voted for these leaders. They represent the people who voted for them.
There are quite a few Monday morning quarterbacks here aren’t there?

What I don’t understand is Italy. How can that little country have 1/3 of all the deaths in the world????? They have now surpassed China with the amount of deaths with only half the known cases.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:43 AM   #2858
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I fear there is a turn toward the political which I would be grateful if we could avoid. People are wonderful, smart, generous and kind, resourceful and supportive when others are down. Do people make mistakes and show poor judgement and say and do silly things we learn from? Guilty.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:45 AM   #2859
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Exactly. I don’t understand why they’re still open. If people were to do as the government is “suggesting” then all those pubs and eateries would be empty anyway so it’s not like it makes sense to keep them open unless you actually expect people to defy you. It wont look good when, as I fully expect within the next few days, there’s an announcement that they’re all going to be closed.

Are the pubs/clubs etc really still full in London? I’m in Cardiff and it’s empty. (Not in a pub or out and about just seeing pictures from journalists etc).


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Old 20 March 2020, 06:46 AM   #2860
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There are quite a few Monday morning quarterbacks here aren’t there?



What I don’t understand is Italy. How can that little country have 1/3 of all the deaths in the world????? They have now surpassed China with the amount of deaths with only half the known cases.
Because we report real numbers.

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Old 20 March 2020, 06:46 AM   #2861
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There are quite a few Monday morning quarterbacks here aren’t there?

What I don’t understand is Italy. How can that little country have 1/3 of all the deaths in the world????? They have now surpassed China with the amount of deaths with only half the known cases.
Italy is the 2nd country with the largest ageing population in the world. China is not even in the top 25.

Japan is top.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:46 AM   #2862
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Because we report real numbers.

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So the rest of the world is lying? I can understand if you believe China and Iran are lying but you think everyone else is also?
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:48 AM   #2863
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Italy is the 2nd country with the largest ageing population in the world. China is not even in the top 25.

Japan is top.
Thank you for that. I did not know that. I wonder what percentage of Italy’s elderly population smoked heavily in their life or are still smoking?
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:48 AM   #2864
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On a theoretical level how do you see this pandemic ending?
If you had asked this question about a generic pandemic a few months ago, the answer would be this. A pandemic ends when it runs out of victims. Infectious diseases like the Coronavirus spread exponentially as more and more people are infected and become contagious. As people develop immunity after surviving infection, receive a vaccine, or avoid infection through distancing, isolation or quarantine, the number of possible victims decreases until the pandemic can no longer sustain itself.

Possible mitigating factors with the current world situation include the seeming decrease in infections in Asia after only a few months despite billions of remaining potential victims and the real possibility that a currently existing antiviral drug could be found to be helpful in decreasing death from Coronavirus. That is my greatest hope right now.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:48 AM   #2865
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There are quite a few Monday morning quarterbacks here aren’t there?

What I don’t understand is Italy. How can that little country have 1/3 of all the deaths in the world????? They have now surpassed China with the amount of deaths with only half the known cases.
I'm including an article from Wired that talks about this...pretty interesting read

https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-...italy-so-hard/
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:49 AM   #2866
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There are quite a few Monday morning quarterbacks here aren’t there?.
I know we can't discuss it here but I'd love to know your views of certain major Western leaders' handling of this situation. I'm trying to name no names here.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:51 AM   #2867
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Are the pubs/clubs etc really still full in London? I’m in Cardiff and it’s empty. (Not in a pub or out and about just seeing pictures from journalists etc).


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I’m going by what friends who work in the city are saying - apparently there are a lot of people out socialising. The BBC showed an interview on the street with some moron (I know they love to shove a mic into the faces of random idiots to get opinions/laughs from, but still) who basically said “I don’t care, I’ll do what I want”. There was another old couple who just said they were out to see how things looked
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:55 AM   #2868
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If you had asked this question about a generic pandemic a few months ago, the answer would be this. A pandemic ends when it runs out of victims. Infectious diseases like the Coronavirus spread exponentially as more and more people are infected and become contagious. As people develop immunity after surviving infection, receive a vaccine, or avoid infection through distancing, isolation or quarantine, the number of possible victims decreases until the pandemic can no longer sustain itself.

Possible mitigating factors with the current world situation include the seeming decrease in infections in Asia after only a few months despite billions of remaining potential victims and the real possibility that a currently existing antiviral drug could be found to be helpful in decreasing death from Coronavirus. That is my greatest hope right now.
Wow. I hope I’m not wrong but your post seems very hopeful to me. Thank you for that.
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:57 AM   #2869
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Along with superdog….on that ignore list
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Old 20 March 2020, 06:59 AM   #2870
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I’m going by what friends who work in the city are saying - apparently there are a lot of people out socialising. The BBC showed an interview on the street with some moron (I know they love to shove a mic into the faces of random idiots to get opinions/laughs from, but still) who basically said “I don’t care, I’ll do what I want”. There was another old couple who just said they were out to see how things looked

It appears to be taking off fast in London


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Old 20 March 2020, 07:00 AM   #2871
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Wow. I hope I’m not wrong but your post seems very hopeful to me. Thank you for that.
My gut feeling is that science will, if not prevail, at least blunt the severity of the pandemic. There will still be suffering, deaths and disruption. But based on a 30 year career in emergency medicine, I have faith in the ingenuity, determination and persistence of the world’s medical communities, and in the vast majority of people who will do the right thing for the good of the many.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:01 AM   #2872
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I know we can't discuss it here but I'd love to know your views of certain major Western leaders' handling of this situation. I'm trying to name no names here.
We don’t have to have any names listed. This is an unprecedented thing. I think leadership around the world is doing fine except for maybe China. And my only complaint about them is we’re fairly confident that they were lying initially about what was happening. There have been some detailed articles on that and if you were interested I will find them for you.

A population wouldn’t be normal if they didn’t complain about their leaders. One side always blames the other. It’s mostly political anyway. Are you going to complain about one particular leader? Why? That leader he or she has a legion of other people beneath them making decisions and doing the best they can. This isn’t like some head coach calling the wrong play with three seconds left of the game. This is an evolving thing. Extremely fluid. It changes day after day. The best people in the world are working on this. If it makes you feel better to blame an individual then go ahead. Chances are you probably didn’t like that individual long before this virus came along.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:02 AM   #2873
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My gut feeling is that science will, if not prevail, at least blunt the severity of the pandemic. There will still be suffering, deaths and disruption. But based on a 30 year career in emergency medicine, I have faith in the ingenuity, determination and persistence of the world’s medical communities, and in the vast majority of people who will do the right thing for the good of the many.
Amen!!! Me too. In fact I don’t think I could’ve wrote it better than you did.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:08 AM   #2874
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Another take for those that feel media are creating this.

The scary headlines would also push lawmakers to implement stronger policies to curtail future infections. This would then ultimately curb the long-term damage to the economy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/some...to-bottom.html

I don’t like the manipulation aspect if any, but if media’s role in this lies along a spectrum and if the overall effect is future measures in place to drastically reduce the effects of any subsequent pan-virus both from a public health and economic standpoint, maybe they will have served their ultimate purpose.

I say that as spring breakers party on the beach in the state of Florida, and while Airbnb has a clear and prudent full refund cancellation policy, on the other side VRBO clearly wants business as usual with the way they are handling this

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If you had asked this question about a generic pandemic a few months ago, the answer would be this. A pandemic ends when it runs out of victims. Infectious diseases like the Coronavirus spread exponentially as more and more people are infected and become contagious. As people develop immunity after surviving infection, receive a vaccine, or avoid infection through distancing, isolation or quarantine, the number of possible victims decreases until the pandemic can no longer sustain itself.

Possible mitigating factors with the current world situation include the seeming decrease in infections in Asia after only a few months despite billions of remaining potential victims and the real possibility that a currently existing antiviral drug could be found to be helpful in decreasing death from Coronavirus. That is my greatest hope right now.
How do the apparent cases of reinfection differentiate this outlook in your view, if we will not achieve herd immunity.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...-test-positive
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:10 AM   #2875
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What hasn't really been discussed is how the media is basically behind this whole thing driving down the stock market, and terrorizing people to no end. Most folks don't understand that the media outlets have their own agenda and they won't be happy until everyone has sold all their 401k assets.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:12 AM   #2876
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What hasn't really been discussed is how the media is basically behind this whole thing driving down the stock market, and terrorizing people to no end. Most folks don't understand that the media outlets have their own agenda and they won't be happy until everyone has sold all their 401k assets.
Oh we discussed it in detail a couple hundred posts ago. I agree with you 100% but there are lots of other people that’ll get very angry for what you just wrote. So we’re kind of divided on it.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:24 AM   #2877
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I'm including an article from Wired that talks about this...pretty interesting read

https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-...italy-so-hard/
Great article....and insight. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:26 AM   #2878
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Oh we discussed it in detail a couple hundred posts ago. I agree with you 100% but there are lots of other people that’ll get very angry for what you just wrote. So we’re kind of divided on it.
Ok, this is a long thread, so I'll admit I haven't read everything. I'll leave that topic alone if others have expressed the dangers and exposed the hidden agendas for what they are.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:38 AM   #2879
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There are quite a few Monday morning quarterbacks here aren’t there?

What I don’t understand is Italy. How can that little country have 1/3 of all the deaths in the world????? They have now surpassed China with the amount of deaths with only half the known cases.
This is how exponential spread of disease works. China was only successful in bringing down numbers with draconian measures. I can assure you that if they let up too quickly, they will see a spike in cases again. I think that's why they are very cautiously releasing the grip on their citizenry right now.

Western countries will take a double whammy. First, many countries in the west are not optimally prepared due to earlier budgetary decisions and lack of personnel with the expertise to address these situations immediately. Second, we can't manufacture our way out of this like China can.

Our opinions on leadership in countries around the world differ. China severely botched the initial reaction when this could have been contained. However, they subsequently did what needed to be done to save lives. The neighboring Asian countries have done a pretty good job, as they wisely maintained their preparedness since the SARS epidemic, and reacted instantly with well thought out plans. The West, not confronted with these challenges for over a century, has failed miserably and still is not on track. We will not know what is actually going on in Russia for a long time, but there is no way they escape this unscathed.
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Old 20 March 2020, 07:40 AM   #2880
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We don’t have to have any names listed. This is an unprecedented thing. I think leadership around the world is doing fine except for maybe China. And my only complaint about them is we’re fairly confident that they were lying initially about what was happening. There have been some detailed articles on that and if you were interested I will find them for you.

A population wouldn’t be normal if they didn’t complain about their leaders. One side always blames the other. It’s mostly political anyway. Are you going to complain about one particular leader? Why? That leader he or she has a legion of other people beneath them making decisions and doing the best they can. This isn’t like some head coach calling the wrong play with three seconds left of the game. This is an evolving thing. Extremely fluid. It changes day after day. The best people in the world are working on this. If it makes you feel better to blame an individual then go ahead. Chances are you probably didn’t like that individual long before this virus came along.
Some fair points there. The leadership in Taiwan showed the world how to deal with this. Look at how they minimised the threat with quick and decisive action. You could look at Korea, Singapore and even China too as positive examples. I just feel that most Western leaders were too slow, too complacent, too arrogant and too unwilling to believe it could ever be our problem. Then, the people who voted these leaders in were also complacent and arrogant in thinking that our great and glorious nations would crush this pesky virus without breaking sweat. There are still people who try and deny the seriousness of it, still people who are going out in mass gatherings and visiting restaurants and other sorts of madness.
I also think one of the lessons from this is that countries need to be less individualistic. Hopefully we learn from this that the big problems we face are better tackled collectively and together, not in an "us and them" way.
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