Debt and quality of life.

[Krash]

Fact is, it takes money to make money.

Also, I have to be honest here, but some of you are talking out of your arse. You might be debt free but that doesn’t mean you have a greater net worth or are more financially secure than some of the guys with some debt.

My guess is that the guys on this forum with some debt have a much higher net worth than the guys talking about how free they are.


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[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Krash

Fact is, it takes money to make money.

Also, I have to be honest here, but some of you are talking out of your arse. You might be debt free but that doesn’t mean you have a greater net worth or are more financially secure than some of the guys with some debt.

My guess is that the guys on this forum with some debt have a much higher net worth than the guys talking about how free they are.


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May seem like I'm picking you and honestly, I'm not, but this seems like a blanket oversimplification.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

May seem like I'm picking you and honestly, I'm not, but this seems like a blanket oversimplification.

It's not an over simplifcation. I'm telling you that I wouldn't be surprised if most of the guys with some debt are more financially secure than the guys without debt. So how much debt do you have and what's your total net worth?

[Lawman77]

There are a bunch of cowboys on this forum.
I’m in debt. I enjoy my life. I pay my bills. I go on vacations, buy nice things (sometimes with financing).
However, I did not come from generational wealth. Was the first to go to college in my family. My dad didn’t have a Rolex, let alone could he spell the word.
I have no shame. Many of you here, given the attitudes on this thread, would shame me. Whatever.
Never underestimate generational wealth. For every 1 person here who literally did it on their own (legit) there are 50 who grew up privileged and who’s daddys wore a Rolex.

[DocHorton]

Agree 100%. I read a long time ago that using a debit card is one of the worst financial moves a person can make, and also one of the easiest to correct. I agree. I've paid for a Rolex with my CC points, bought a UTV, etc. Free money and tax free as well.

Originally Posted by Krash

Yeah, using a debit card instead of a credit card is lame. Just pay it off every month and take advantage of the points. It’s literally free money. We just bought a new 65” TV with our points. It’s hanging up on the wall in our back lanai.



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[minute_man]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

You use a debit card for all of your purchases? That’s very odd. Zero purchase protection, zero benefit for your spending. If someone gets your debit card number, they are going to tear through your cash. Then your bank takes their sweet time getting you back your money. With a credit card, it’s their money. Points are whatever, some people are into them some are not. But it seems like a simple $0 yearly free visa credit card is a no brainer? Or even an Amex green card for $70 a year and you pay it off monthly as it’s a charge card.

You are not alone, so i totally get where you’re coming from. I just had this conversation with my brother in law and constantly have to tell my wife to stop using the debit card. His thought process might have been similar, he just wanted to pay cash for everything. To my point, using a charge card and paying off weekly, bi weekly or monthly is the same thing as paying cash. You just get the upside of points and protection.


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Yes, I do and it isn't odd, at all. Some explaining might be in order here:

Originally Posted by Krash

Yeah, using a debit card instead of a credit card is lame. Just pay it off every month and take advantage of the points. It’s literally free money. We just bought a new 65” TV with our points. It’s hanging up on the wall in our back lanai.



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Guys I'm not familiar how CC and Debit Cards work in your neck of the woods. Up until 10-15 years ago I might have had to agree with you on the CC vs Debit.

Here, CC and Debit are one and the same when it comes to protection and acceptance. There is no different treatment between the two. The ONLY difference is that a CC is like an open personal loan. And that you can use for monthly installments on purchases.

While no CC comes free of annual fees save for the 1st year maybe, the 35-70 euro fee isn't a deal breaker but it's there.

Both CC and Debit cards have reward points, loyalty programs and same tax benefits for their use instead of cash.

And for a long time now, debit cards enjoy the same protection as CC when it comes to disputes of any kind.

They also share the same security over several platforms and require strong authentication by different means; phone, OTP, fingerprints, card pin number etc.

On top of that, you don't even have to expose your debit card if you still feel unsafe to do so. You can opt to have a prepaid card, either physical or virtual, which you can recharge or discharge at will and use online or wherever you might worry about compromised security. You can even withdraw cash with one.

Last but not least, all card limits are user configurable through the Banks apps. You can freeze and unfreeze them too...

Doesn't sound too lame after all, right?

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by minute_man

Yes, I do and it isn't odd, at all. Some explaining might be in order here:



Guys I'm not familiar how CC and Debit Cards work in your neck of the woods. Up until 10-15 years ago I might have had to agree with you on the CC vs Debit.

Here, CC and Debit are one an the same when it comes to protection and acceptance.

While no CC comes free of annual fees save for the 1st year mabe, the 35-70 euro fee isn't a deal breaker but it's there.

Both CC and Debit cards have reward points, loyalty programs and same tax benefits for their use instead of cash.

And for a long time now, debit cards enjoy the same protection as CC when it comes to disputes.

They also share the same security over several platforms and require strong authentication by different means; phone, OTP, fingerprints, card pin number etc.

On top of that, you don't even have to expose your debit card if you feel unsafe to do so. You can opt to have a prepaid card, either physical or virtual, which you can recharge or discharge and use online or wherever you might worry about compromised security.

Doesn't sound too lame after all, right?

They are approaching the issue from US perspective. EU has a lot more consumer protection with respect to debit cards (and in general)

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

They are approaching the issue from US perspective. EU has a lot more consumer protection with respect to debit cards (and in general)

Yes, that's obviously the case, here. I've had credit cards but ever since they were made the same in terms of acceptance and protection, I have zero use for a CC, really.

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by Lawman77

There are a bunch of cowboys on this forum.
(1.) I’m in debt. I enjoy my life. I pay my bills. I go on vacations, buy nice things (sometimes with financing).
However, I did not come from generational wealth. Was the first to go to college in my family. My dad didn’t have a Rolex, let alone could he spell the word.
(2.)I have no shame. Many of you here, given the attitudes on this thread, would shame me. Whatever.
Never underestimate generational wealth. For every 1 person here who literally did it on their own (legit) there are 50 who grew up privileged and who’s daddys wore a Rolex.

1. That's the point of this thread. It's all about sharing what works for you and why.

2. This shouldn't be what this thread is about. There is no shame in either of the two approaches. I might feel like one is more representative of myself than another and argue for / against ideas but no man is better or worse than another based on their beliefs on the subject matter.

PS: Keep this civil, please. No one cares about anyone's net worth. You're making a valid point here, friend; no examples are needed.

Originally Posted by Krash

It's not an over simplifcation. I'm telling you that I wouldn't be surprised if most of the guys with some debt are more financially secure than the guys without debt. So how much debt do you have and what's your total net worth?

[Romeojk]

Nice thread.

Debt has been a major part of my adult life and will be up until I retire, or thereabouts.

I would love to live in that first group and be debt free, and oh so want to be there, but with a mortgage we barely afforded most years, we enjoyed trade-offs in our life.

I would say go for that first group and be debt free, I can imagine how liberating it must feel.

For us, over the decades needs and wants have changed. We moved down in house but up in zip code. The mortgage is still up there but is no longer soul draining. We shifted from no more used cars to new. No more camping with our daughter, it's now me and the misses boating. And we've always taken vacations, that hasn't changed much.

The kid is now on her own, well established and we gave her no college debt. And the mortgage will be gone in 5 years, 8 months, and 12 days. Hopefully retire in 7yrs.

I say all this because threads like this get me think about things. Nostalgia. Choices.

[superdog]

I think folks are getting defensive for no reason.

I don’t see any “debt shaming”.

I also don’t begrudge anyone for doing things differently than I do.

In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those that effectively take advantage of debt. For certain, if I were smarter, and did thing differently using debt as a tool, my net worth would be higher. No doubt.

My point is always that different folks, in different situations, with different life experiences, will find different ways that work for them. I have always been debt averse based on what I saw happen in my life.

And my father did wear a Rolex. A watch he couldn’t afford. He lived in a nice house too and drove nice cars. He also put my brother and I through college. At the same time he lived paycheck to paycheck, didn’t know how he was going to pay his car payments and mortgage, and had zero savings.

20 years ago he had his 5th heart attack and couldn’t work. The business was in shambles, had a dying main product, had tons of debt, and my folks could not afford to retire. Not remotely close. He asked my brother and I for help. My brother said no. I came into the business to help. And it was torture (another story).

He got better after a few months and we worked together until 2008. I was only supposed to stay long enough to help him get on his feet. He was forced by his health into retirement right around the financial crises. Right when I was opening my first yoga studio as a night and weekend side hustle.

But 20 years later and we have been listed 4 times on Forbes fastest growing businesses list. And 20 years later, I still give my dad 25% of my salary.

I wish I was comfortable using debt. I know a ton folks that are stupid wealthy and they love debt. It’s an insecurity thing for me. It’s that simple. But it’s what helps me sleep at night.

Different solutions for different people. I know people that think I’m an idiot for not utilizing debt. And in certain ways, they are not wrong. But I have no regrets.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by superdog

I think folks are getting defensive for no reason.

I don’t see any “debt shaming”.

I also don’t begrudge anyone for doing things differently than I do.

In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those that effectively take advantage of debt. For certain, if I were smarter, and did thing differently using debt as a tool, my net worth would be higher. No doubt.

My point is always that different folks, in different situations, with different life experiences, will find different ways that work for them. I have always been debt averse based on what I saw happen in my life.

And my father did wear a Rolex. A watch he couldn’t afford. He lived in a nice house too and drove nice cars. He also put my brother and I through college. At the same time he lived paycheck to paycheck, didn’t know how he was going to pay his car payments and mortgage, and had zero savings.

20 years ago he had his 5th heart attack and couldn’t work. The business was in shambles, had a dying main product, had tons of debt, and my folks could not afford to retire. Not remotely close. He asked my brother and I for help. My brother said no. I came into the business to help. And it was torture (another story).

He got better after a few months and we worked together until 2008. I was only supposed to stay long enough to help him get on his feet. He was forced by his health into retirement right around the financial crises. Right when I was opening my first yoga studio as a night and weekend side hustle.

But 20 years later and we have been listed 4 times on Forbes fastest growing businesses list. And 20 years later, I still give my dad 25% of my salary.

I wish I was comfortable using debt. I know a ton folks that are stupid wealthy and they love debt. It’s an insecurity thing for me. It’s that simple. But it’s what helps me sleep at night.

Different solutions for different people. I know people that think I’m an idiot for not utilizing debt. And in certain ways, they are not wrong. But I have no regrets.

All I have to say is that’s an incredible story Seth. Thank you for sharing this

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by Lawman77

Never underestimate generational wealth. For every 1 person here who literally did it on their own (legit) there are 50 who grew up privileged and whose daddys wore a Rolex.

Are you sure the ratio isn’t 47 to 1? Or 52 to 1? You’re pulling statistics out of your orifice with absolutely no way to know what you’re talking about.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Lawman77

There are a bunch of cowboys on this forum.
I’m in debt. I enjoy my life. I pay my bills. I go on vacations, buy nice things (sometimes with financing).
However, I did not come from generational wealth. Was the first to go to college in my family. My dad didn’t have a Rolex, let alone could he spell the word.
I have no shame. Many of you here, given the attitudes on this thread, would shame me. Whatever.
Never underestimate generational wealth. For every 1 person here who literally did it on their own (legit) there are 50 who grew up privileged and who’s daddys wore a Rolex.

Personally I don’t even pretend to be self made. Only reason I’m not carrying debt, particularly law school debt, is because I had well-off parents.

There’s a major disconnect between rich Americans and everyday working Americans on this topic. From a position of privilege it’s easy to say “skip the Smartphone, skip the vacation, skip the watch, skip the new TV, skip law/medical/business school, skip that new car” … yet in reality, these are choices rich people have never had to make. If your average rich person were in the shoes of a person with less money, would they (A) take on some debt, or (B) forego higher education, drive a beater, watch a 32 inch ancient TV, wear a Casio calculator watch, take no vacations, use a bottom-of-the-barrel phone. I’m gonna go with Option A for pretty much every rich person. Option B is way easier said than done.

[NYG1121]

Originally Posted by superdog

I think folks are getting defensive for no reason.

I don’t see any “debt shaming”.

I also don’t begrudge anyone for doing things differently than I do.

In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those that effectively take advantage of debt. For certain, if I were smarter, and did thing differently using debt as a tool, my net worth would be higher. No doubt.

My point is always that different folks, in different situations, with different life experiences, will find different ways that work for them. I have always been debt averse based on what I saw happen in my life.

And my father did wear a Rolex. A watch he couldn’t afford. He lived in a nice house too and drove nice cars. He also put my brother and I through college. At the same time he lived paycheck to paycheck, didn’t know how he was going to pay his car payments and mortgage, and had zero savings.

20 years ago he had his 5th heart attack and couldn’t work. The business was in shambles, had a dying main product, had tons of debt, and my folks could not afford to retire. Not remotely close. He asked my brother and I for help. My brother said no. I came into the business to help. And it was torture (another story).

He got better after a few months and we worked together until 2008. I was only supposed to stay long enough to help him get on his feet. He was forced by his health into retirement right around the financial crises. Right when I was opening my first yoga studio as a night and weekend side hustle.

But 20 years later and we have been listed 4 times on Forbes fastest growing businesses list. And 20 years later, I still give my dad 25% of my salary.

I wish I was comfortable using debt. I know a ton folks that are stupid wealthy and they love debt. It’s an insecurity thing for me. It’s that simple. But it’s what helps me sleep at night.

Different solutions for different people. I know people that think I’m an idiot for not utilizing debt. And in certain ways, they are not wrong. But I have no regrets.

Incredible story. You have the right perspective on life!

[77T]

Originally Posted by superdog

Different solutions for different people.

I know people that think I’m an idiot for not utilizing debt.

And in certain ways, they are not wrong.

But I have no regrets.

Just taking those final four closing points in your post.

#1 is the most important one IMHO. Too many of the posts in this thread (and tbh most TRF threads since 2015-ish) are polarizing as members voice their own philosophy as if it was the “right” way. And they seem intolerant of others’ choices.

#2 is an off-shoot of #1 if people believe others are “idiots” for not doing things a certain way.

#3 well, self-awareness is a great thing but seriously, many are usually set in their ways by our late ‘20’s - formed by our own experiences.

#4 is the key. The “if only” crowd smile less often and second-guess their choices. The “at least” cohort is comfortable in their skin. They are the ones who smile more and have less worries, pressure, and self-doubts.

#5 - oh, yeah, there were just 4 points, right? Well, #5 is to say this is all just my


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[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by superdog

I think folks are getting defensive for no reason.

I don’t see any “debt shaming”.

I also don’t begrudge anyone for doing things differently than I do.

In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those that effectively take advantage of debt. For certain, if I were smarter, and did thing differently using debt as a tool, my net worth would be higher. No doubt.

My point is always that different folks, in different situations, with different life experiences, will find different ways that work for them. I have always been debt averse based on what I saw happen in my life.

And my father did wear a Rolex. A watch he couldn’t afford. He lived in a nice house too and drove nice cars. He also put my brother and I through college. At the same time he lived paycheck to paycheck, didn’t know how he was going to pay his car payments and mortgage, and had zero savings.

20 years ago he had his 5th heart attack and couldn’t work. The business was in shambles, had a dying main product, had tons of debt, and my folks could not afford to retire. Not remotely close. He asked my brother and I for help. My brother said no. I came into the business to help. And it was torture (another story).

He got better after a few months and we worked together until 2008. I was only supposed to stay long enough to help him get on his feet. He was forced by his health into retirement right around the financial crises. Right when I was opening my first yoga studio as a night and weekend side hustle.

But 20 years later and we have been listed 4 times on Forbes fastest growing businesses list. And 20 years later, I still give my dad 25% of my salary.

I wish I was comfortable using debt. I know a ton folks that are stupid wealthy and they love debt. It’s an insecurity thing for me. It’s that simple. But it’s what helps me sleep at night.

Different solutions for different people. I know people that think I’m an idiot for not utilizing debt. And in certain ways, they are not wrong. But I have no regrets.

Well said brotha. I don’t shame anyone for living their life how they want. But I can certainly disagree with it.

My dad never had a watch that I can remember. I tried to get him to put mine on at dinner one night and he wouldn’t even touch it.

As for this thread, we all come from entirely different backgrounds and life experiences. This makes us all have different views and tolerances.

I grew up with nothing except a toxic roof over my head and the saving grace of my grandmother. I didn’t understand credit. It never made sense to me growing up. I learned from those that I looked up to that if I worked hard, was innovative, used what money I had to make money and didn’t buy extravagant stuff I couldn’t afford, I’d be alright in life.

Then talking to a very financially savvy friend of mine, I was informed I needed a credit profile. So I got a credit card. I got obsessed with my credit profile. So essentially I’ve got multiple cc’s now that are used to purchase whatever is required. They’re paid off every month.

I don’t drive new vehicles, I don’t care what the joneses are doing down the road. I buy the nicest stuff I can find for myself as much on sale as possible, doesn’t matter if it’s been used. I love to go to garage sales and it doesn’t hurt my pride one bit to pick something up off the side of the road that’s perfectly usable that someone is throwing away. I actually did this and then sold the stuff at my own garage sale to get through a tough time here or there in the past.

I drink cheap beer. I wear my clothes until they’re falling apart. My Rolex is the most expensive item I’ve ever bought myself that I didn’t need.

My family and those I love want for nothing and if I was to die today I think they’d still be alright for quite sometime if not their entire lives. To ensure that for them means more to me than having nice stuff for myself or keeping up appearances with the neighbors. Until we’ve got an exorbitant amount in the bank and residual income that matches my salary I will continue life like I do to help ensure my families livelihood when I am gone.

I have friends that refinanced their house, paid off all their debt and had 13k cash. Fast forward to 8 months later and their reserve is gone because they went on hunting trips, cruises, threw parties with DJ’s that they had to purchase matching outfits for among other things. They’re racking those card balances up again. And just paying the minimum payment. That’s not sustainable imo and something I want to stay as far away from as possible.


The cowboys on my payroll are gonna laugh when I tell ‘em I’m a cowboy too according to the internet.


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[superdog]

Appreciate the nice words guys. Very much so.

But as you can imagine, there is a lot of resentment that’s been built up over the years.

My brother as he lives a very different lifestyle.
My father as the business has far eclipsed any of our wildest dreams.
Me. My folks had their folks on their back. They promised never to do that for me. But I have lived my life to ensure they are okay.

There are more. These are just the big ones. And I’m not complaining. At all. My folks are amazing. And they sacrificed everything to ensure I had the opportunities I had. I’m still very close with them and they are half the reason I plan to move to Florida. To be close to them.

My point is while the story seems very hallmark, it’s fraught with reality.

When I was a kid my greatest aspiration was to be a college professor. I wonder often if that might have been a better life.

I never wanted all the money. I only want enough money. Enough so that I’m secure. This is also why I invest very conservatively.

My dad also gave me that watch for my 30th. Then a few years later while he was borrowing it (I was wearing his Breitling) he decided to flip it for something else. He said it was his biggest regret. But years later, he was wearing my first big boy watch. A DD2 in white gold. He somehow mage it his own. And then asked me to sell it for him to get a YG version.

He also now wears an Exp 2 of mine. Moral of that piece of the story. Never let my dad borrow your watch.

But again, the whole point here is that where we are today, and what brought us here, often times molds why we do what we do, and how we do it.

I watched a lot of people lose their lifestyle. I’m determined to never let that happen to me. I’m happy. I like my life. I don’t want the risks of debt. Especially on a watch that my dad might commandeer.

[denmanproject]

Debt can be a good thing if it works for you

4 years go I took out a 7 figure loan to buy the business I was working at for 20+ yrs. Now 4 years later it's all paid off (this month actually ) using the company to pay for it

My first Rolex I paid $4000 cash and 0% financed the remaining $3500 (114060) paid it off in 4 months busting my a** but wearing the sub while doing it

My current house is more than 1/2 paid off by buying property early in life (with almost $0 down) then renovating with my own 2 hands and flipping into profits toward the next one

[Krash]

Originally Posted by denmanproject

Debt can be a good thing if it works for you

4 years go I took out a 7 figure loan to buy the business I was working at for 20+ yrs. Now 4 years later it's all paid off (this month actually ) using the company to pay for it

My first Rolex I paid $4000 cash and 0% financed the remaining $3500 (114060) paid it off in 4 months busting my a** but wearing the sub while doing it

My current house is more than 1/2 paid off by buying property early in life (with almost $0 down) then renovating with my own 2 hands and flipping into profits toward the next one

Yeah, I think what some fail to realize is that you can have debt, but at the same time, you can still have a net worth that puts you squarely in the 1% category.

Net Worth = Assets - Debt

If you have a million dollars worth of debt but $5 million worth of assets, that’s not bad. That’s pretty good actually.

On the flip side, if you have $500,000 worth of debt and only $100,000 worth of assets, then that’s a different story.

Everyone is different. There is no “one size fits all” answer.


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[denmanproject]

Originally Posted by krash

yeah, i think what some fail to realize is that you can have debt, but at the same time, you can still have a net worth that puts you squarely in the 1% category.

Net worth = assets - debt

if you have a million dollars worth of debt but $5 million worth of assets, that’s not bad. That’s pretty good actually.

On the flip side, if you have $500,000 worth of debt and only $100,000 worth of assets, then that’s a different story.

Everyone is different. There is no “one size fits all” answer.


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100%

[daveathall]

There are a lot of people here that know a great deal more about money than I do.

I'm very basic, I never got into debt because it was more profitable than paying cash. I went into debt because I couldn't have had and never would have had enough to buy a luxury item, whether that be a Rolex, car etc without buying it on credit, sometimes I got it interest free, other times I never. What I do know is that I always made sure that I had enough money to pay the loan back and that without getting the watch/car etc on credit, in my lifetime, I would never have owned it. Now, the thing is, I didn't do it to impress people, I did it for me, pure and simple. I have had a good life, without credit I would still have had a good life, but with fewer trappings.

I'm proper working class, not clever enough to earn money using my brains, I used brawn. I have never been rich but I have also always had enough food to put on the table for my family.

Was I a success? Yes, I think so, I have never (ever) earned over £30K a year but have my own house and cars and some decent luxury watches and stuff to please me. Most of them were bought using credit, but it is all paid off now.

The only way debt has worked for me is that it has allowed me to own items I could never have had otherwise.

[Letsgodiving]

Originally Posted by Krash

Fact is, it takes money to make money.

Also, I have to be honest here, but some of you are talking out of your arse. You might be debt free but that doesn’t mean you have a greater net worth or are more financially secure than some of the guys with some debt.

My guess is that the guys on this forum with some debt have a much higher net worth than the guys talking about how free they are.


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Did I miss all the posts proclaiming a higher net worth due to being debt averse? The only one I see talking out of their arse is you.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by daveathall

There are a lot of people here that know a great deal more about money than I do.

I'm very basic, I never got into debt because it was more profitable than paying cash. I went into debt because I couldn't have had and never would have had enough to buy a luxury item, whether that be a Rolex, car etc without buying it on credit, sometimes I got it interest free, other times I never. What I do know is that I always made sure that I had enough money to pay the loan back and that without getting the watch/car etc on credit, in my lifetime, I would never have owned it. Now, the thing is, I didn't do it to impress people, I did it for me, pure and simple. I have had a good life, without credit I would still have had a good life, but with fewer trappings.

I'm proper working class, not clever enough to earn money using my brains, I used brawn. I have never been rich but I have also always had enough food to put on the table for my family.

Was I a success? Yes, I think so, I have never (ever) earned over £30K a year but have my own house and cars and some decent luxury watches and stuff to please me. Most of them were bought using credit, but it is all paid off now.

I consider you a proper success, Dave, even if certain toffs might say otherwise

The question I have today is: do I flip away from my stream of Eagles/Titans to watch England/Senegal. I bet on both, so the stakes are high

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Krash

Yeah, I think what some fail to realize is that you can have debt, but at the same time, you can still have a net worth that puts you squarely in the 1% category.

Net Worth = Assets - Debt

If you have a million dollars worth of debt but $5 million worth of assets, that’s not bad. That’s pretty good actually.

On the flip side, if you have $500,000 worth of debt and only $100,000 worth of assets, then that’s a different story.

Everyone is different. There is no “one size fits all” answer.


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I don’t think anyone is failing to see that.

And I’m pretty confident the vast majority (likely all) know how to calculate net worth.

Folks are simply answering the OP’s question and sharing their personal thoughts/strategies.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I consider you a proper success, Dave, even if certain toffs might say otherwise

The question I have today is: do I flip away from my stream of Eagles/Titans to watch England/Senegal. I bet on both, so the stakes are high

Thank you my friend, I must admit that I am more confident about the Eagles than I am about England. It may be a good thing, France just looked unstoppable, I don't think we have enough to trouble them if we win later tonight.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by daveathall

There are a lot of people here that know a great deal more about money than I do.

I'm very basic, I never got into debt because it was more profitable than paying cash. I went into debt because I couldn't have had and never would have had enough to buy a luxury item, whether that be a Rolex, car etc without buying it on credit, sometimes I got it interest free, other times I never. What I do know is that I always made sure that I had enough money to pay the loan back and that without getting the watch/car etc on credit, in my lifetime, I would never have owned it. Now, the thing is, I didn't do it to impress people, I did it for me, pure and simple. I have had a good life, without credit I would still have had a good life, but with fewer trappings.

I'm proper working class, not clever enough to earn money using my brains, I used brawn. I have never been rich but I have also always had enough food to put on the table for my family.

Was I a success? Yes, I think so, I have never (ever) earned over £30K a year but have my own house and cars and some decent luxury watches and stuff to please me. Most of them were bought using credit, but it is all paid off now.

The only way debt has worked for me is that it has allowed me to own items I could never have had otherwise.

The very definition of success actually.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Krash

Fact is, it takes money to make money.

Also, I have to be honest here, but some of you are talking out of your arse. You might be debt free but that doesn’t mean you have a greater net worth or are more financially secure than some of the guys with some debt.

My guess is that the guys on this forum with some debt have a much higher net worth than the guys talking about how free they are.


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I’d wager that most peoples net worth has more to do with history/type of career/investment strategy/family dynamic have a lot more to do with anyone’s net worth over their strategy regarding debt.

[bobernet]

I’m 100% self-made. My aversion to debt has nothing to do with privilege or generational wealth, and everything to do with someone who experienced the slavery of debt in my younger years.

I’m not arguing against debt for others, but I’d point out that the power of leverage works both ways - magnifying gains, and magnifying losses.

I wish everyone health, wealth, peace, and happiness. As to the d#### measuring contest, aka net worth comparison, you might be surprised what can be accumulated without extensive use of personal debt.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by bobernet

I’m 100% self-made. My aversion to debt has nothing to do with privilege or generational wealth, and everything to do with someone who experienced the slavery of debt in my younger years.

I’m not arguing against debt for others, but I’d point out that the power of leverage works both ways - magnifying gains, and magnifying losses.

I wish everyone health, wealth, peace, and happiness. As to the d#### measuring contest, aka net worth comparison, you might be surprised what can be accumulated without extensive use of personal debt.

Nobody is 100% self made. Some people’s parent(s) neglect their basic needs like food, clothing, education, safety and medical care. A bad upbringing can leave some kids so broken and traumatized they lack the basic emotional, social and intellectual tools to be employed anywhere.

If you managed to accumulate a fortune, you got some help somewhere along the way. Might have been far less help than some others got, but “100% self made” is rather extreme