Identical Tudor Subs?

[bobridley]

Two Tudor Subs just arrived. One produced in ’65 (left) and the other in’68 (right). Initially they appeared to be the same models until I began my evaluations.

For you Tudor enthusiasts, can you tell what the models are based on the production dates and pictures?

Bob

[linesiders]

As you state, the left is a 7928 (no /0 which is 67 only) and the right is a 7016/0.

The tells (from top view) if you had not mentioned which are which, are the 7928 has somewhat rougher crown guards and 7016/0 has a slightly shorter sweep hand tip.

There are common production variations in the top of the crown guard for each model that blurs that line. Put the cases side by side and the 7016 is a little thinner. The undersides of the CGs are the most pronounced case difference

The 7016 has been serviced (probably late 70s / early 80s) where it gained the MK3 insert, and 702 Crown and Tube (could be a 703 but not sure based on one photo ; ) ).

How'd I do , boss ~

[bobridley]

Originally Posted by linesiders

As you state, the left is a 7928 (no /0 which is 67 only) and the right is a 7016/0.

The tells (from top view) if you had not mentioned which are which, are the 7928 has somewhat rougher crown guards and 7016/0 has a slightly shorter sweep hand tip.

There are common production variations in the top of the crown guard for each model that blurs that line. Put the cases side by side and the 7016 is a little thinner. The undersides of the CGs are the most pronounced case difference

The 7016 has been serviced (probably late 70s / early 80s) where it gained the MK3 insert, and 702 Crown and Tube (could be a 703 but not sure based on one photo ; ) ).

How'd I do , boss ~

Linesiders, you've done your homework.

These two Tudor Subs arrived last week from two different customers and appeared the same until a closer look.

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[vintagetudor]

Thanks for posting Bob, great info and pics....Linesiders you're the nuts..love your knowledge of Tudors

[jatco]

Originally Posted by vintagetudor

Thanks for posting Bob, great info and pics....Linesiders you're the nuts..love your knowledge of Tudors

x2 - Great stuff

[214270Explorer]

Thanks for taking the time to post the photos and the info, Bob. Very interesting.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by bobridley

Linesiders, you've done your homework.

Thank you.

Interesting, optical illusion made me thing the crown was fatter on the 7016 .

I have owned or handled a half dozen of each of those versions, as well as many more Tudor. Started collecting there and never really left.

Originally Posted by vintagetudor

Thanks for posting Bob, great info and pics....Linesiders you're the nuts..love your knowledge of Tudors

[bazamu]

Two very nice examples and some great info by @linesiders.

Bob - A question for you. I've collected Tudors for a while but have stayed away from 7928s because I have heard that the cal 390 is a pain to service and source parts for. Is that true, in your opinion?

[rootbeer7]

Amazing thread. Love these images side-by-side.

[996marty]

Two beautiful examples I just love old Tudor subs

[sutats]

Great info! The side profile of the 7928 shows that it is a chunky beast against the 7016/0. Lovely examples.

[bobridley]

Originally Posted by bazamu

Two very nice examples and some great info by @linesiders.

Bob - A question for you. I've collected Tudors for a while but have stayed away from 7928s because I have heard that the cal 390 is a pain to service and source parts for. Is that true, in your opinion?

Servicing pre-80’s, 70’s, etc.

Yes, there are some Tudor calibers when serviced that require more time, replacement of or parts to refurbish and experience. If a consensus of which Tudor caliber movements watchmakers would prefer not to work on, some would say that the Rolex Tudor 390 caliber is among the top of their list. One of reasons is due to a lack of parts and the other reason is design.

One area I commonly see as needing to be addressed: Auto Mechanism

Whether it’s in the principle of planned obsolescence or simply a 60’s technology, the complete self-winding module will need attention. With parts scarcity, the watchmaker has to rely more on adjustments & applications. This takes time and a willingness to see the job through.

As seen in the picture below, one of the 390 auto components (Lower Plate) was by design, too thin and flimsy...easy to warp. Incorrect handling during a repair service can cause warpage which means...your watch won’t auto wind as well.


Auto Wind.jpg

Each decade as these watches age, additional mechanical needs should be considered, and secondly, the degree to which they age can be influenced by the quality of each service from your watchmaker.

Sounds like a sales pitch, I know. But how you care for it today determines its dependability tomorrow.


Bob

[SunTzu]

Originally Posted by linesiders

How'd I do , boss ~

Nerd!

[suligeo]

Thanks for showing, very nice watches.


https://www.instagram.com/vintage_georgex/

[jatco]

Originally Posted by bobridley

Servicing pre-80’s, 70’s, etc.

Yes, there are some Tudor calibers when serviced that require more time, replacement of or parts to refurbish and experience. If a consensus of which Tudor caliber movements watchmakers would prefer not to work on, some would say that the Rolex Tudor 390 caliber is among the top of their list. One of reasons is due to a lack of parts and the other reason is design.

One area I commonly see as needing to be addressed: Auto Mechanism

Whether it’s in the principle of planned obsolescence or simply a 60’s technology, the complete self-winding module will need attention. With parts scarcity, the watchmaker has to rely more on adjustments & applications. This takes time and a willingness to see the job through.

As seen in the picture below, one of the 390 auto components (Lower Plate) was by design, too thin and flimsy...easy to warp. Incorrect handling during a repair service can cause warpage which means...your watch won’t auto wind as well.


Attachment 1146601

Each decade as these watches age, additional mechanical needs should be considered, and secondly, the degree to which they age can be influenced by the quality of each service from your watchmaker.

Sounds like a sales pitch, I know. But how you care for it today determines its dependability tomorrow.


Bob

Awesome

[bazamu]

Originally Posted by bobridley

Servicing pre-80’s, 70’s, etc.

Yes, there are some Tudor calibers when serviced that require more time, replacement of or parts to refurbish and experience. If a consensus of which Tudor caliber movements watchmakers would prefer not to work on, some would say that the Rolex Tudor 390 caliber is among the top of their list. One of reasons is due to a lack of parts and the other reason is design.

One area I commonly see as needing to be addressed: Auto Mechanism

Whether it’s in the principle of planned obsolescence or simply a 60’s technology, the complete self-winding module will need attention. With parts scarcity, the watchmaker has to rely more on adjustments & applications. This takes time and a willingness to see the job through.

As seen in the picture below, one of the 390 auto components (Lower Plate) was by design, too thin and flimsy...easy to warp. Incorrect handling during a repair service can cause warpage which means...your watch won’t auto wind as well.


Attachment 1146601

Each decade as these watches age, additional mechanical needs should be considered, and secondly, the degree to which they age can be influenced by the quality of each service from your watchmaker.

Sounds like a sales pitch, I know. But how you care for it today determines its dependability tomorrow.


Bob

Thanks for the informative answer - much appreciated!

[XavierM]

Wow, As always, very impressed by the knowledge of linesiders regarding Tudor Sub !
Very nice and informative post Bob, thanks for sharing !

Kind regards,

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by SunTzu

Nerd!

We should all aspire to be this nerdy! Awesome knowledge.

[SamSmith12]

Great knowledge !!

[Davetona]

Great looking watches

[imarrcuss]

Hello, I am not a watch expert like many of you are, however, I enjoy watching YouTube videos of watch makers renovating watches that look very much like they are beyond restoration. The watch, 7106/0 above belonged to my Father. He gave it to me about 5 years ago and never told me its history. My dad was a diver for the Navy and served in WWII (Pacific), Korean and Vietnam wars. He suffered a knee injury during a dive and never returned to diving. Ultimately, he served as one the Navy's first enlisted Harbor Pilots (there were two other Chiefs) in Vietnam and Diego Garcia. He passed away a couple of years ago at the age of 92.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by imarrcuss

Hello, I am not a watch expert like many of you are, however, I enjoy watching YouTube videos of watch makers renovating watches that look very much like they are beyond restoration. The watch, 7106/0 above belonged to my Father. He gave it to me about 5 years ago and never told me its history. My dad was a diver for the Navy and served in WWII (Pacific), Korean and Vietnam wars. He suffered a knee injury during a dive and never returned to diving. Ultimately, he served as one the Navy's first enlisted Harbor Pilots (there were two other Chiefs) in Vietnam and Diego Garcia. He passed away a couple of years ago at the age of 92.

A watch like the 7016 above? Or the exact watch that Bob Ridley serviced?

BTW - BZ on your dad.

[imarrcuss]

Originally Posted by linesiders

A watch like the 7016 above? Or the exact watch that Bob Ridley serviced?

BTW - BZ on your dad.

Yes the 7106 watch above, the one Bob Ridley is servicing, is the watch I am referring to.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by imarrcuss

Yes the 7106 watch above, the one Bob Ridley is servicing, is the watch I am referring to.

Awesome ; )

If you have any generic questions on that 7016 - let me know ; )

[OJM]

Hi Bob, I thought that is my 7928 which you serviced, but then noticed the post was in 2020 not 2021! Owen

[bobridley]

OJM,
Yep, almost identical to your Tudor Sub.
Bob

[TuRo]

Question please - Isn’t the 65 7928 supposed to be a t Swiss t chapter ring silver writing dial though? I thought non-chapter rings only started mid-late 66/early 67? Nice pair mind !
EDIT : Not seen this before, but apparently they did make a open chapter 65 with gloss dial in 65.
MK6
Open Chapter

White Print

Glossy Dial

T SWISS T

Rounded Crown Guards

Gilt Hash Marks

Approx. serial range: 506xxx to 598xxx

Notes: Yes, Tudor manufactured a glossy dial for a very brief period. Most of the examples found are dated to 1966 and have ”VI 66” stamped within the case back. However, there have been several glossy examples to surface that are dated to 1965 (with 1965 case backs), a few of which came directly from the original owner. This was the first time Tudor introduced a glossy dial in their submariner lineup. Tudor would revert back to matte dials for the remainder of the 7928 production and then re-introduce glossy dials in the 1980’s. Lastly, with the introduction of the open chapter, the print transitions from silver to white.