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Old 22 September 2017, 06:12 AM   #61
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2017 pre-owned jumbo listed by watchuwant (aka govberg) on ebay for 27k.
wow...WOW!
My goodness, I was just looking back at my second post on this thread.

Govberg was selling that pre-owned 15202 for $25,950 on August 31st.

So what do you do when you don't sell something...?

Increase the price! Then people will think it is going up in price even faster.
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Old 22 September 2017, 06:27 AM   #62
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Something is going on, Rolex, PP and now AP we are hearing of prices rising and supply falling even in the US.
That's perfect for me, as I don't need/want any new watch, the idea that the ones I have raised in value is nice, ok would take a bath on the KV but will sell it before being homeless, which shouldn't be soon
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Old 22 September 2017, 12:02 PM   #63
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My goodness, I was just looking back at my second post on this thread.

Govberg was selling that pre-owned 15202 for $25,950 on August 31st.

So what do you do when you don't sell something...?

Increase the price! Then people will think it is going up in price even faster.
That is actually a viable strategy sometimes. It will get people to take a second look and reevaluate. It's a pretty basic trick.
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Old 22 September 2017, 09:06 PM   #64
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Ebay/PayPal take about 10% of that so it’s actually less for them
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Old 16 October 2017, 07:44 AM   #65
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Just popped into NYC boutique and saw yet again a bunch of new faces. Lots of turnover there it seems. Anyway, asked about ordering a watch and was told not to bother. Just reinforces how I feel about the entire industry at the moment. Didn’t care if it was a two year wait but told don’t even bother by a place I have purchased from leaves a bad taste.


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Old 16 October 2017, 11:29 AM   #66
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Just popped into NYC boutique and saw yet again a bunch of new faces. Lots of turnover there it seems. Anyway, asked about ordering a watch and was told not to bother. Just reinforces how I feel about the entire industry at the moment. Didn’t care if it was a two year wait but told don’t even bother by a place I have purchased from leaves a bad taste.


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Was it the 15202, 15400, or another one?
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Old 16 October 2017, 03:13 PM   #67
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Just popped into NYC boutique and saw yet again a bunch of new faces. Lots of turnover there it seems. Anyway, asked about ordering a watch and was told not to bother. Just reinforces how I feel about the entire industry at the moment. Didn’t care if it was a two year wait but told don’t even bother by a place I have purchased from leaves a bad taste.


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there is a lot of that going around in multiple markets lately so not sure what it up with that. That includes leadership positions at the country level, service center staff etc. It seems like a lot, all at once.
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Old 17 October 2017, 12:21 AM   #68
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was it the 15202, 15400, or another one?
15407.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:04 AM   #69
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Just popped into NYC boutique and saw yet again a bunch of new faces. Lots of turnover there it seems. Anyway, asked about ordering a watch and was told not to bother. Just reinforces how I feel about the entire industry at the moment. Didn’t care if it was a two year wait but told don’t even bother by a place I have purchased from leaves a bad taste.


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Think there should be a more tactful way for the brand boutiques/AD to handle this. One way they can do so is to sell the watch "by invitation" only so the customers don't need to ask and made to feel slighted.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:09 AM   #70
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Think there should be a more tactful way for the brand boutiques/AD to handle this. One way they can do so is to sell the watch "by invitation" only so the customers don't need to ask and made to feel slighted.
well, one way is for us to stop buying watches until we get the one we want. Im guilty as well of having several watches i want at a time and the decision is made for me with the one that is available first. Thats what they want us to do.

I know London has a waitlist of 1 to 7 years depending on how good of friends you are with the SC staff, not how many watches you have purchased previously. Yes, we compare notes.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:15 AM   #71
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well, one way is for us to stop buying watches until we get the one we want. Im guilty as well of having several watches i want at a time and the decision is made for me with the one that is available first. Thats what they want us to do.

I know London has a waitlist of 1 to 7 years depending on how good of friends you are with the SC staff, not how many watches you have purchased previously. Yes, we compare notes.
Well, everyone has to start somewhere. If first time buyers can't get what they want or worst, made to feel slighted, they are likely to turn away from the brand. Not sure that is the best long term strategy. It's can be a sensitive matter actually. Relationship and buying record does help I have to say.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:16 AM   #72
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15407.
Sorry to hear that friend. That might be my favorite watch of all time. Love it!
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:19 AM   #73
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Well, everyone has to start somewhere. If first time buyers can't get what they want or worst, made to feel slighted, they are likely to turn away from the brand. Not sure that is the best long term strategy. It's can be a sensitive matter actually. Relationship and buying record does help I have to say.
i agree. To some extent they have the right strategy in restricting the availability to boutiques almost exclusively. There is a limited number of points of sale available to funnel customers to unlike say PP with every AD having a 5711 list. The groundwork is there but they just need to do a better job of managing lists and not turning off potential buyers. I would gladly wait but the time is a constantly moving target that varies by years at at time depending on who you talk to.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:34 AM   #74
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i agree. To some extent they have the right strategy in restricting the availability to boutiques almost exclusively. There is a limited number of points of sale available to funnel customers to unlike say PP with every AD having a 5711 list. The groundwork is there but they just need to do a better job of managing lists and not turning off potential buyers. I would gladly wait but the time is a constantly moving target that varies by years at at time depending on who you talk to.
Two years ago, AP discretely released a by-invitation only Royal Oak Offshore 20th anniversary special edition which is a re-creation of the original Emmanuel Gueit designed offshore but fitted with with a new movement and a Sapphire caseback. Only 20pcs were made and were sold exclusively to top AP customers at the F1 event in Singapore thru AP boutique. Imagine if it has been made /announced publicly, I guess every boutique customer will want that watch and the boutique will have a hard time to explain why this buyer is getting it and that buyer cannot.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:35 AM   #75
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Two years ago, AP discretely released a by-invitation only Royal Oak Offshore 20th anniversary special edition which is a re-creation of the original Emmanuel Gueit designed offshore but fitted with with a new movement and a Sapphire caseback. Only 20pcs were made and were sold exclusively to top AP customers at the F1 event in Singapore thru AP boutique. Imagine if it has been made /announced publicly, I guess every boutique customer will want that watch and the boutique will have a hard time to explain why this buyer is getting it and that buyer cannot.
i like that a lot actually. People can't be mad about not getting something they don't know exists.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:37 AM   #76
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i agree. To some extent they have the right strategy in restricting the availability to boutiques almost exclusively. There is a limited number of points of sale available to funnel customers to unlike say PP with every AD having a 5711 list. The groundwork is there but they just need to do a better job of managing lists and not turning off potential buyers. I would gladly wait but the time is a constantly moving target that varies by years at at time depending on who you talk to.
I think either way, there's going to be a game to play, be it with boutiques or ADs. Making pieces boutique only, and only being available at a few retail points will make it all about relationship, but there's maybe a slight degree more of predictability. Whereas with ADs, it can be a complete wild west, which can work in your favour sometimes (e.g. see the anecdote of someone getting a 5711/1A from an AD without waiting or a pre-existing relationship.) A bunch of ADs literally laughed at me when I asked about a 5712/1A, when others were willing to put me on their waitlist (I'm hoping for a late 2018 delivery), and apparently it's been sitting in some AD showcases in the US recently. If it was only funneled through boutiques, there wouldn't be these lucky chances along the way.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:40 AM   #77
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I think either way, there's going to be a game to play, be it with boutiques or ADs. Making pieces boutique only, and only being available at a few retail points will make it all about relationship, but there's maybe a slight degree more of predictability. Whereas with ADs, it can be a complete wild west, which can work in your favour sometimes (e.g. see the anecdote of someone getting a 5711/1A from an AD without waiting or a pre-existing relationship.) A bunch of ADs literally laughed at me when I asked about a 5712/1A, when others were willing to put me on their waitlist (I'm hoping for a late 2018 delivery.)
i just meant more that AP should have a better idea of supply and wait times with 20 or so boutiques (i don't know the number) vs a Patek AD who isn't controlled by the brand and are trying to manage lists at 200 or something points of sale and have a smaller allocation per point of sale and some are not even sure how many they get, so its hard to estimate wait times.

An AP boutique should know we get 10 pieces per year for example and 50 people on the list means a 5 year wait as i would hope the supply chain from factory to boutique would be consistent.
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Old 17 October 2017, 01:49 AM   #78
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i just meant more that AP should have a better idea of supply and wait times with 20 or so boutiques (i don't know the number) vs a Patek AD who isn't controlled by the brand and are trying to manage lists at 200 or something points of sale and have a smaller allocation per point of sale and some are not even sure how many they get, so its hard to estimate wait times.

An AP boutique should know we get 10 pieces per year for example and 50 people on the list means a 5 year wait as i would hope the supply chain from factory to boutique would be consistent.
Problem with AD's "waitlist" is that you never actually know if you are on that list or not. They can always BS you. And worse, secretly sell your allocation to another buyer that can pay a higher price. Hence the wild goose chase. It's probably better at boutique since then it will be purely based on buying record and number of customers in that wait list.
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Old 17 October 2017, 02:04 AM   #79
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Problem with AD's "waitlist" is that you never actually know if you are on that list or not. They can always BS you. And worse, secretly sell your allocation to another buyer that can pay a higher price. Hence the wild goose chase. It's probably better at boutique since then it will be purely based on buying record and number of customers in that wait list.
here is a crazy plan. Cut production in half of every model they discount on at AD's. Someone said they got a 23% discount on a diver the other day and that means that make way too many. Shift production to models they can sell at full retail.

Some of us are or will be waiting years for the opportunity to pay full price.
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Old 17 October 2017, 02:24 AM   #80
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For me, I am just tired of the games and when I run into them the voice inside my head reminds me this is just a watch and you have more than you can wear in a fort night. So slowly its just leading me to not caring one way or the other. I have long stopped visiting ADs as its generally unpleasant. The boutique turnover is a little frustrating as well, no continuity with staff lately. But they are just watches and lots of others ways to spend money I am discovering.
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Old 17 October 2017, 02:53 AM   #81
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For me, I am just tired of the games and when I run into them the voice inside my head reminds me this is just a watch and you have more than you can wear in a fort night. So slowly its just leading me to not caring one way or the other. I have long stopped visiting ADs as its generally unpleasant. The boutique turnover is a little frustrating as well, no continuity with staff lately. But they are just watches and lots of others ways to spend money I am discovering.
I'm right there with you. To me the frustrating part especially with the 15407 is the demand isn't there to begin with in the same way it is with a 5711 or even a blue 15400. Its not an entry level piece, the openworked is not everyones style, it's not an everyday watch, and its expensive. I think they are not making hardly any and its not that demand is sky high. I get frustrated when i see every AD with models they can't give away and being heavily discounted as that is the production focus. They wouldn't even to make that many more to clear the waitlists. 1/2 of the people on them are just going to flip anyway to those few who want one and can't get it.Clear the waitlist and there is no grey market incentive to buy and its way easier to do with a niche piece vs a mass market appeal piece.
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Old 17 October 2017, 03:03 AM   #82
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For me, I am just tired of the games and when I run into them the voice inside my head reminds me this is just a watch and you have more than you can wear in a fort night. So slowly its just leading me to not caring one way or the other. I have long stopped visiting ADs as its generally unpleasant. The boutique turnover is a little frustrating as well, no continuity with staff lately. But they are just watches and lots of others ways to spend money I am discovering.
Even if one stick to watches, there are many nice watch brands that can cost far less while delivering a lot. I recently discover Seiko watches and have bought 6 of them this year alone. While not exactly haute horology, they range from 1/10th to 1/100th the cost of an AP or PP and are great fun to wear.
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Old 17 October 2017, 03:17 AM   #83
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Even if one stick to watches, there are many nice watch brands that can cost far less while delivering a lot. I recently discover Seiko watches and have bought 6 of them this year alone. While not exactly haute horology, they range from 1/10th to 1/100th the cost of an AP or PP and are great fun to wear.
i tried to get into GS but sadly i just don't get it and am not there yet. For me at least i have found popular PP models minus the 5711 easier to source than popular AP models so i have gone in that direction. I used to be turned off on PP because of how hard they were to find, but AP surpasses that by a mile.
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Old 17 October 2017, 03:21 AM   #84
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i tried to get into GS but sadly i just don't get it and am not there yet. For me at least i have found popular PP models minus the 5711 easier to source than popular AP models so i have gone in that direction. I used to be turned off on PP because of how hard they were to find, but AP surpasses that by a mile.
Which AP you find hard to get? The 407 ?
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Old 17 October 2017, 03:24 AM   #85
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Which AP you find hard to get? The 407 ?
for me its the 407... but if i wanted a CE 44 or a SE ROC, ss 15202, or maybe even a blue dial ROC from the UK i would wait longer than a 5524g. Which is madness.

I don't buy grey but i know i could get it tomorrow if i wanted to.
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Old 17 October 2017, 03:36 AM   #86
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for me its the 407... but if i wanted a CE 44 or a SE ROC, ss 15202, or maybe even a blue dial ROC from the UK i would wait longer than a 5524g. Which is madness.

I don't buy grey but i know i could get it tomorrow if i wanted to.
Really? Hmm... 407 and 15202 maybe. But Blue dial ROC and CE44 should not be this hard to find... I got my Blue ROC when I asked for it ( they had it in the safe ) and was offered a CE44 although I didn't take it. That's at the AP boutique in Hong Kong. Maybe time you take a holiday to Asia for AP watch buying trip.
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Old 17 October 2017, 02:57 PM   #87
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15407.
I’ve always wondered since the steel 15407 is the more popular model that if you wanted the RG version, would the boutique still say “sorry list is full”?

Also would you be bumped towards the top of the waitlist since the RG version is a higher margin item compared to the steel version?
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Old 17 October 2017, 03:09 PM   #88
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I’ve always wondered since the steel 15407 is the more popular model that if you wanted the RG version, would the boutique still say “sorry list is full”?

Also would you be bumped towards the top of the waitlist since the RG version is a higher margin item compared to the steel version?
who knows, but the RG is the only of the two i have seen in person so those are obtainable fairly easily.
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Old 17 October 2017, 03:13 PM   #89
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Really? Hmm... 407 and 15202 maybe. But Blue dial ROC and CE44 should not be this hard to find... I got my Blue ROC when I asked for it ( they had it in the safe ) and was offered a CE44 although I didn't take it. That's at the AP boutique in Hong Kong. Maybe time you take a holiday to Asia for AP watch buying trip.
i know, its crossed my mind. Even on the forums, the vast majority of CE 44 incomings for example originate in Asia. That one isn't on my buy list, but I've heard great things about the boutiques in Asia.
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Old 17 October 2017, 04:13 PM   #90
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who knows, but the RG is the only of the two i have seen in person so those are obtainable fairly easily.
Only openworked I’ve ever seen in person was the 15204 in RG at the NYC boutique.
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