“Full set” premium worth it?

[Jsol]

Dearest experts. When buying a used model, how much of a premium for all the papers really makes sense? The difference between “watch only” and “full set” can run in the thousands. Inquiring minds wanna know.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Jsol

Dearest experts. When buying a used model, how much of a premium for all the papers really makes sense? The difference between “watch only” and “full set” can run in the thousands. Inquiring minds wanna know.

IMO it matters. Lots of reasons papers can be missing and a lot of those reasons are not good, so if its possible i would want them.

Your old star wars toys are worth astronomically more too if they are still in the box they came in and not so much if they are not. Same sort of thing IMO.

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

IMO it matters. Lots of reasons papers can be missing and a lot of those reasons are not good, so if its possible i would want them.

Your old star wars toys are worth astronomically more too if they are still in the box they came in and not so much if they are not. Same sort of thing IMO.

I hadn’t thought about the potential for shady history. Good point.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Jsol

I hadn’t thought about the potential for shady history. Good point.

Had you thought about the possibility of forged papers and period boxes? Knowing your seller is most important.

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Had you thought about the possibility of forged papers and period boxes? Knowing your seller is most important.

That’s for sure!

[Frosty]

On the other hand, if you are getting a watch from a trusted seller, are you going to pass up an outstanding vintage without paperwork, for a good vintage with paperwork?

I got a beautiful matte dial GMT with all the paperwork and receipts. Later on, the same TS had a beautiful matte dial 5512 Submariner without paperwork. I jumped at it!

The condition of the watch is what I consider first. jmho

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Had you thought about the possibility of forged papers and period boxes? Knowing your seller is most important.

for me its less of a concern with forged papers although that happens. Tons of watches get stolen and quite frankly people wouldn't even know if it has. Lots of people don't send watches to RSC anyway and especially not vintage ones. It could be stolen from another continent and you may not even know for a really really long time and sometimes never. Stolen watches don't usually get their papers stolen too. The disorganized nature of determining if something is stolen is a major turn off for me on second hand watches and dealers wouldn't necessarily know either even if they are trustworthy.

Its always a gamble i guess

[faz]

Always good to have box and papers, at least to give some history and help feel better about the watch not being stolen. But the watch could have been stolen with box and papers too, or on the other hand, watch could be a gift to say son/daughter and box/papers gone missing in parents house (somewhere in the garage in a box, no one knows where to find it).

For a watch that you plan on keeping, I wouldn’t worry too much about the papers if the seller was solid. If however you plan on flipping it, well, having papers will help you in the long run. I would gladly pay 10-20% premium for box and orig papers.


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[andy2518]

I would say it also comes down to age, if it is only a few years old and there is no box or papers I would be a bit cautious. If it’s a vintage piece not so much as they were tools back in the day not the luxury items they are now and as has been said earlier, watch condition first everything else second.

[m j b]

As noted by Andy, it matters more for more recent watches. However, my experience has been that it's worth no more than $1000 to have the full kit. If you never plan to sell it, then it's worth taking that discount.

I remember selling a watch once, and I had everything except the warranty card, which would have been expired anyway, and it still made it a tougher sell and I had to accept less because of it.

[G.D.BeanCounter]

What would be considered the standard, watch with box and papers, or without? Contrary to a premium for having box and papers would be that the watch is discounted without them. This has been may perception, most of us seem to expect the watch to come with box and papers, or the value is perceived to be less; or maybe even a watch on which we'd pass. I guess for me the psychology seems to be that I am getting less, without the box and papers, and that could just be because "complete set" has been echoed through the ages, which now suggests that the watch may somehow be incomplete with them. No matter how you slice it, it works out the same.

[k1985]

It's been said above, but I always buy the seller. Due diligence is key. I have heard of numerous instances where even with a full kit, parts have been swapped out, or upon taking the watch to RSC for service, the watch was confiscated as it had been reported stolen. So, while I think full kit is certainly worth a premium to prove at least some provenance of the watch, one still must always be very careful.

[siempreko]

Box and papers add value... but, not on your wrist!


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[NoCokeNoHope]

I prefer a full set. It adds quite a bit of value down the road. IMO it’s well worth the premium for a correct set. The accessories can give a bit more history of the watch.But be aware a carelessly put-together set may raise questions if you decide to sell it one day.



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[MinMay]

Paper and box could be fake too.

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by NoCokeNoHope

I prefer a full set. It adds quite a bit of value down the road. IMO it’s well worth the premium for a correct set. The accessories can give a bit more history of the watch.But be aware a carelessly put-together set may raise questions if you decide to sell it one day.



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Yes I’ve seen some odd collections that are out of place

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by siempreko

Box and papers add value... but, not on your wrist!


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Haha! True

[dave023]

I prefer a full set

[lecorsaire]

A full set is always worth it but if not possible then papers/card are more important than the box. You can always buy original boxes but you will never find the original card. There are people selling real papers and cards on eBay, but you’ll have a better chance of winning the lottery before finding missing papers for a watch.

[joli160]

I only buy a full set, without papers I don't even consider buying, regardless how good a deal it may be.

Resale value is totally irrelevant for me, since I never sell. I just want to have all the bits and pieces that came with the watch.
Part of the hobby.

Regardless the model, there will be always one equally nice with all the papers.

[You]

I would pay a premium just to have box and papers full set.

[azs.77]

Definitely buy the seller first.

Having said that, box and papers are important and generally worth the premium. If you want to sell the watch down the road, box and papers come in very handy. Especially if you aren't a trusted seller and want the potential buyer to buy you as the seller.

[Yobber76]

What if an AD is selling a used watch w/o papers. Would you think you could haggle down as much as $1000?

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by joli160

I only buy a full set, without papers I don't even consider buying, regardless how good a deal it may be.



Resale value is totally irrelevant for me, since I never sell. I just want to have all the bits and pieces that came with the watch.

Part of the hobby.



Regardless the model, there will be always one equally nice with all the papers.

I think the added value of the papers and accessories is the story it tells. It’s a brand experience that gets missed w the watch only.

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by Yobber76

What if an AD is selling a used watch w/o papers. Would you think you could haggle down as much as $1000?

I doubt it ?

[Boaters]

Buy the seller first and foremost and papers are great but not a deal breaker for me.

[tyler1980]

the other thing is stop thinking of it as a full set premium but rather a no papers discount. You are not paying extra for the papers.

[05carbondrz]

The Papers and Boxes just sit in the Safe,The Watch is most important to me.

[CPRWATCH]

And to flip the coin here , I would take the age of the watch into consideration too . I would expect a watch bought around 10-15 years ago to still have B&P as the norm , but anything older than that it's the condition of the watch that matters most to me ,after completing due diligence on the buyer & watch . Things happen in life though & B&P do get lost or thrown out due to house moves, couples splitting up , etc & not just because the watch has been stolen. True story , when I was getting divorced from my 1st wife she took some family heirlooms which were very sentimental to me & several watches of mine with full B&P when she moved out of the house . I tried my hardest to get them back & even went to the police , only to be told as we were still married she was entitled to take them. After a long drawn out period including my solicitors help , she gave me the watches back & the family heirlooms ,but said she had thrown all the B&P away .

[Alternative_Facts]

i only care about papers. box just takes up space in my safe.