Manufactured history of a company?

[dchang81]

I know it’s a tough business out there but does it really help that much for companies to buy the rights to some old arbitrary watchmakers name from a hundred years ago? I guess companies want to have some tab in their website that they can show the “history” of the company even though it’s literally just using the name and no actual connection. Anyways just griping but been looking at a bunch of different watches to get as a bday gift from the wife and pretty much everyone’s doing this crap. Some of these are extraordinary watches, but I guess hard to survive just on those merits? Having a less than sincere history is so contrived. Anyways end of rant

[uscmatt99]

I have mixed feelings on this. Transparency is mandatory. I think it's alright to anchor one's brand to the name of a deceased watchmaker if the product is significantly inspired by that watchmaker, and taken to the next level by modern standards. There are many great designs that perished not because of a lack of ingenuity, but because the business model wasn't sustainable at the time. Bringing these back to life is pretty cool.

[mongrelnomoad]

Buying a brand can be a way of jump-starting awareness, and as a guiding inspiration. As stated, if they’re open about buying and resurrecting a dead brand, I don’t have a problem with it. Even better if they try and still their creations with some of the original DNA.

There are others, however, who jump through hoops to pretend there is an unbroken line and take nothing from the history.

Bottom line: don’t tarnish all with the same brush. It’s what you do with it that counts.

[illiguy]

Seemed to work for Mr. Biver and Blancpain.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Seemed to work for Mr. Biver and Blancpain.

I don’t have that long a memory, but it strikes me Mr. Biver would milk the potential for all it was worth.

[Fredrik]

You have the same tendencies in other areas as well, for instance that company that makes Goyard lookalike wallets and bags, Faure Le Page, it has nothing to do with the original company.

[dbfagan]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

I don’t have that long a memory, but it strikes me Mr. Biver would milk the potential for all it was worth.

Yup. I don't think BP did anything other than a dive watch prior to JC.

[vman]

There is nothing wrong with resurrecting a company, especially if the company contributed to the craft. I am okay with brands like Moser, Arnold and Son, and other outfits that carry on the tradition.

However, I do not appreciate manufacture prestige or fake sense of luxury, innovation, and exclusivity where there is none. That's why I won't buy watch from a maker that has not excelled in at least one aspect other than branding.

[Pw92676]

To me, the history matters to an extent. But it doesn’t make or break a watch, I base my decision on the watch itself and not the textbooks (or lack thereof) in the archives behind it.

[Dino944]

For me when someone resurrects the brand name of a long defunct company or a dead watch maker, it's just a marketing tool. It worked for BP and they make very high quality watches. However with plenty of other companies it made little difference and they are often brands I'd describe as largely forgettable. BP made it work, but the most part I consider it irrelevant if someone just bought the rights to a brand name.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by Dino944

For me when someone resurrects the brand name of a long defunct company or a dead watch maker, it's just a marketing tool. It worked for BP and they make very high quality watches. However with plenty of other companies it made little difference and they are often brands I'd describe as largely forgettable. BP made it work, but the most part I consider it irrelevant if someone just bought the rights to a brand name.

I figure this is easy to state with hindsight...

[ravenhome777]

I think Doxa might be an example of this.

Were you thinking of a specific brand?

[dchang81]

I just started looking at a bunch of companies outside of AP patek and Rolex considering I can’t get anything worthwhile from them these days. it seems like more than half the brands do this. They have some token connection but nothing meaningful or substantial at least in my opinion. Putting the birthday of john Arnold on the logo seems cheesy. These are nice watches too just seems cheap to make the company seem older than it is. Reminds me of Hegel amplifiers. Can’t even bring themselves to write “made in Norway” since its Chinese made so they just put “norway” on the back.

[Dino944]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

I figure this is easy to state with hindsight...

BP seems to be the most successful and well known of brands that have been resurrected. However, neither their history nor what they produce make me want to own one. I can't think of any resurrected brand that makes something I want to own.

[woowoo]

Great rant and great topic. Something I thought about it too.

My 2 cents. Few customers dig deep enough to see how manufactured or exaggerated a company's history is. Most customers will either be indifferent to brand history or believe its marketing at face value. So a lot to gain and little to lose by adding history to a brand's image.

And in fairness, sometimes the history of a name or brand is still the inspiration for a brand even if the ties to that history were severed and revived over the years.

[kunlun]

Revived names in haute horology that come to mind:

A. Lange und Söhne
Arnold and Son
Ferdinand Berthoud
Blancpain
Bovet
Czapek
Jacquet Droz
Mortiz Grossman
Leroy
Moser
Vianney Halter (half-kidding, he retired, ran out of money, and revived his brand)

Keep in mind that brands like Patek Philippe and Breguet have changed ownership but have been in continuous production since their founding and do not have a place on this list.

[Slider817]

If done well I think it can add a layer of interest beyond just the watch. Couldn’t hurt if it’s honest and transparent. I think if the design reaches back to the original brand DNA in certain regards that can be nice and add some authenticity.

However, I don’t put a huge amount of stock In this, I live Journe, Kari V, Grubel, and so many others that have no history to speak of.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Revived names in haute horology that come to mind:

A. Lange und Söhne
Arnold and Son
Ferdinand Berthoud
Blancpain
Bovet
Czapek
Jacquet Droz
Mortiz Grossman
Leroy
Moser
Vianney Halter (half-kidding, he retired, ran out of money, and revived his brand)

Keep in mind that brands like Patek Philippe and Breguet have changed ownership but have been in continuous production since their founding and do not have a place on this list.

Yea all those brands make really nice watches too.

[Andad]

Sometimes I wonder what brand of car I’m driving.

[Fredrik]

It's a sliding scale, from buying the rights to a name that hasn't been in use for long, up until a brand just changing owner. Remember that some brands are in the middle of that but has been for a long time, like Breitling that got resurrected and Omega that was basically bankrupt in the early 80s and just became a brand name like Tissot in a larger company.

[77T]

I think you can have an AP, PP or Rolex for your birthday it you’ll consider a vintage model.

Saves you from looking at lesser brands that would always be a disappointment.

Not knowing your age, the vintage route might be more meaningful if you can find a birth year watch as well.

I dunno, I’m feeling a lemons to lemonade mood today is better than rants.


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[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by 77T

I think you can have an AP, PP or Rolex for your birthday it you’ll consider a vintage model.

Saves you from looking at lesser brands that would always be a disappointment.

Not knowing your age, the vintage route might be more meaningful if you can find a birth year watch as well.

I dunno, I’m feeling a lemons to lemonade mood today is better than rants.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The horological world is far larger, more varied and more wondrous than AP, PP and Rolex (coming from someone with one of each).

[77T]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

The horological world is far larger, more varied and more wondrous than AP, PP and Rolex (coming from someone with one of each).

I know that - the OP cited he went outside of those brands because he couldn’t get any new models he wanted.

I’ve owned a dozen different brands.


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[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by 77T

I know that - the OP cited he went outside of those brands because he couldn’t get any new models he wanted.

I’ve owned a dozen different brands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Fair enough, but I’m guessing he doesn’t want the increased faff of going vintage. Although they all make very good watches, there’s a pretty strong argument for all three currently resting on their laurels.

[dchang81]

I don’t know if I would call some of those brands lesser in quality besides reputation. Do prefer new or basically new if a discontinued model. I have a deposit on a gronefeld who uses their dads birthday to name their case shape which seems a bit silly to me too. to me the watches stand up on their own merit without cheesy marketing fluff, but maybe companies feel like they need it to survive.

I suppose “rant” was too strong a word. Emotional purchase for me buying a birthday gift I plan on giving to one of my kids, heck that’s pateks marketing fluff. So playing off that nostalgia is a powerful thing.

[Dino944]

I think there is also a big difference between a company that makes a top quality product like A. Lange & Sohne, Moser, J.Droz etc. and a company that just buys the rights to a name and then makes or buys a case and drops a generic ETA or Sellita watch movement into it.