1601 advice needed

[p_mcgee]

I've traded a lot of watches on the forums but don't know much about vintage Rolex. My spouse saw a vintage 34mm Rolex Datejust at Barney's that she wanted (might have been a 1505 or maybe 15053?) priced at a mere $6K & I was confident I could do better here.

So, after a brief search I'm deciding between four similar 1601s, silver dial with WG fluted bezel, priced in the same range (1900-2300). All of the sellers check out. What questions should I ask that might help me decide? Are there any questions you like to ask the seller up front? Also, the bracelets mostly seem to show a lot of stretch, I assume that's normal?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[crowncollection]

When was it last serviced


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[motoikkyu]

I love 1601s. This is a very durable movement. One point, the 1601 is 36mm, as opposed to the 34mm 1500 series. They cost more than than the 15XX because they are larger. If you are contemplating swapping the dial, be aware that the 1601 takes the "pie pan" style dial, the later flat dials do not fit. The serial number on the movement should match the one on the case, or it is considered a "frankenwatch". In the WG bezel there are two styles, one more deeply incised than the other. In the silver dial, the markers come in different shapes: wide-boy, door-stop, and standard. If you are thinking of buying an example with a "wide-boy" dial, try to buy with the matching hands, many have had the hands replaced with later, narrower style hands.

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

When was it last serviced


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+1

A good service runs 1/4-1/3 of the price of a 1601; anything with a semi-recent service is well worth paying towards the upper end of the range you mention. That being said, a 1570 movement is a workhorse and will probably run just fine for 30 years between intervals. I've never come across one that didn't run, serviced or not.

[dpa94114]

I have a good pal who works for Barneys...and while they are now very excited to be carrying some vintage Rolex, they are not terribly knowledgeable. I doubt anyone there would be able to take the back off to see the service dates on the case nor the ownership history.

Take a look at CMT watches...or HQ Milton...or ping Andrew Shear at Sheartime or Hill Street watches for sellers who know the details.

[p_mcgee]

Thanks for the advice-- I tried some of these suggestions. The questions about servicing & matching serial # on case & movement turned off a couple of potential sellers, but nobody I was eager to buy from.

I'll probably just stick to the recommended vintage watch sellers until I get some more experience.

[U5512]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

The serial number on the movement should match the one on the case, or it is considered a "frankenwatch". .

This is INCORRECT information. The serial number of the movement NEVER matches with the one on the case. I repeat, it NEVER matches with the serial number of the case.

[motoikkyu]

Originally Posted by U5512

This is INCORRECT information. The serial number of the movement NEVER matches with the one on the case. I repeat, it NEVER matches with the serial number of the case.

I stand corrected BUT my information was from 2 dealers that I consider reputable and knowledgeable. Is that specific to the 1601, the watch that they showed me matching numbers on was a 1625 Thunderbird? I certainly do NOT want to pass on bad information.

[dstacy]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

The serial number on the movement should match the one on the case, or it is considered a "frankenwatch". .

Huh? What??!!

[wehttaM]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

I stand corrected BUT my information was from 2 dealers that I consider reputable and knowledgeable. Is that specific to the 1601, the watch that they showed me matching numbers on was a 1625 Thunderbird? I certainly do NOT want to pass on bad information.

Are you referring to the reference numbers on the case and the case back perhaps?

[motoikkyu]

Caseback and case reference numbers don't always match, especially if the watch was serviced. I've seen it discussed on the forum a number of times and I have a few 60s-70s stainless watches with random casebacks that are 100% otherwise.

No, I was under the apparently mistaken impression that there was a match between 1570 movement serials and case serials: I don't know why I believed it other than it was told to me by two different relatively knowledgeable individuals, who were quite clear that this is NEVER the case for 18XX DDs.

I apologize to all offended by my ignorance and resolve to do better in the future. I still love 1601s.

[dstacy]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

Caseback and case reference numbers don't always match, especially if the watch was serviced. I've seen it discussed on the forum a number of times and I have a few 60s-70s stainless watches with random casebacks that are 100% otherwise.

No, I was under the apparently mistaken impression that there was a match between 1570 movement serials and case serials: I don't know why I believed it other than it was told to me by two different relatively knowledgeable individuals, who were quite clear that this is NEVER the case for 18XX DDs.

I apologize to all offended by my ignorance and resolve to do better in the future. I still love 1601s.

You didn't offend anyone. We're good.
Merry Christmas