16520 vs 16523

[carwashchris]

Currently the SS is trading @ 21 to 24 k usd and the two tone 14 to 17 k .

I'm considering a purchase but torn, there is obviously more demand for the SS , thus someday easier to sell. But the 2 tone seems like such a bargain for 6k ish less. I like them both, for different reasons the SS for its popularity and the two tone for the lower price point.

My question is do the members here think the price difference will remain the same over the next 5 years or so.

Thanks

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[Tools]

Since the price difference has been there for the past 5 years it is very likely that it will continue.

[TuRo]

I think they are most unlikely to narrow, and more than likely diverge more in the next decades.

There's a lot of zenith bicolours and unless bi-colour fashion really takes off like in 1983/4 again (American Psycho set in 1985 and Wall Street everyone has one on and aspired to one).

As it stands at moment 'millennial fashionistas' are now keen on bi-colour....The Wall Street Journal did a piece a few years back....but it's not looking like a massive across the board swing in demand to two-tone, like say the big watch craze was from 2002-2018 (R.I.P. 47mm Ap's/ Hublots, Franck Muellers, Panerais, and even YM2's perhaps) where everyone, and their dog, wore a huge watch !

Only precious metal Daytonas that have caught up/raced ahead and surpassed the steels, are the early RARE as hens teeth 37 and 37.5mm full gold manual Daytonas eg lemon dial, JPS, etc .

[carwashchris]

Originally Posted by Tools

Since the price difference has been there for the past 5 years it is very likely that it will continue.

Thanks for the input.

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[carwashchris]

Originally Posted by TuRo

I think they are most unlikely to narrow, and more than likely diverge more in the next decades.

There's a lot of zenith bicolours and unless bi-colour fashion really takes off like in 1983/4 again (American Psycho set in 1985 and Wall Street everyone has one on and aspired to one).

As it stands at moment 'millennial fashionistas' are now keen on bi-colour....The Wall Street Journal did a piece a few years back....but it's not looking like a massive across the board swing in demand like say the big watch craze was from 2002-2018 (R.I.P. 47mm Ap's/ Hublots, Franck Muellers, Panerais, and even YM2's perhaps) where everyone, and their dog, wore a huge watch !

Only precious metal Daytonas that have caught up and surpassed the steels are the early RARE as hens teeth 37 and 37.5mm full gold manual Daytonas.

Thank you

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[KY..]

I have always liked TT Rolex models especially the Daytona’s, GMT’s and Submariners, and currently have one of each that I love.
When I got my TT 16523 with B&P many years ago I paid 8900 USD, and the going rate for a 16520 Zenith with B&P at that time was ~12k USD.
So I suspect there will always be a built in 30-50% up charge for the common dial/bezel SS Zenith Daytona over the TT.
But if it’s one of the rarer dials/bezels, then the price difference will easily be double or triple.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by carwashchris

I like them both, for different reasons the SS for its popularity and the two tone for the lower price point.

My question is do the members here think the price difference will remain the same over the next 5 years or so.

It's interesting that you are making this sound like a commodity investment with no consideration to which of the two watches you actually prefer.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

I’ve observed prices for 16523s shoot higher over the last few years. With debasement, everything goes up with time. Not sure the gap will narrow much, however, between the two.

In recent years I’ve really begun gravitating to the champagne 16523s. A class look imo.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Dan S

It's interesting that you are making this sound like a commodity investment with no consideration to which of the two watches you actually prefer.

Ditto. Buy the watch you love and you'll be fine. Much more important to consider is the condition of whichever Daytona you buy. Don't bargain hunt.

Where are you seeing Zenith Daytonas as low as $21K? Presumably mediocre examples without B&P. They're come down in price over the last 6 months, but I don't see that it's quite that much.

[996marty]

Just buy what you like. Thinking of what will sell down the line and what won’t is for me secondary

[carwashchris]

The 16523 with the black dial is my favorite. Personally I like the contrast, and I can dress it down with a strap, if I think the bracelet gives it too much bling.

Thanks

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[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by carwashchris

The 16523 with the black dial is my favorite. Personally I like the contrast, and I can dress it down with a strap, if I think the bracelet gives it too much bling.

Thanks

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I think the 16523 black is the most popular of the 16523s. Can't go wrong with it. Used to be my favourite configuration as well for the Zenith two-tone Daytonas.

[carwashchris]

Appreciate your feedback. Thanks

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[jfmiii]

Not a two tone guy but Zenith TTs are the exception. That said, SS Zenith Daytonas are the best bargain in Rolex going currently.

[hutch300]

If they were the same price what watch would you prefer?

[1William]

Originally Posted by hutch300

If they were the same price what watch would you prefer?

Bingo. Don't settle. Buy the watch you want and be happy that you did. This is really about money not the watch.

[prk154]

Recently picked up this P-Serial 16523 and I definitely agree with the black dial being the best option.

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[springer]

Originally Posted by carwashchris

Currently the SS is trading @ 21 to 24 k usd and the two tone 14 to 17 k .

I'm considering a purchase but torn, there is obviously more demand for the SS , thus someday easier to sell. But the 2 tone seems like such a bargain for 6k ish less. I like them both, for different reasons the SS for its popularity and the two tone for the lower price point.

My question is do the members here think the price difference will remain the same over the next 5 years or so.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

I want through the same quandary as you during 2007 when I purchased a gorgeous, two-tone "S" serial numbered 16753 Daytona with the inverted six white dial. It was a complete set, except for the green hang tag. It was priced much less than the stainless steel model, but I was looking for more of a "dress" watch and this seemed to be a good fit for me.

I owned it for 10 years and the appreciation was very little during that time. When I sold it during August 2017, I received $9,900. which was about $3,000 more than I paid for the watch during February 2007. During this same 10-year time span of ownership, the stainless steel model appreciated substantially more than my two-tone model.

My point here is, get what suits you, the stainless steel models will always outperform and appreciate more than the two-tone Daytona models. Time, collect-ability and appreciation really hasn't changed much since 2007 for these two models and I don't see that changing. It seems that most of the Rolex two-tone models always seem to lag behind in value when compared to their stainless steel counterparts.

[carwashchris]

Full set !! What a prize

Given I have 6 { 4&5 } digit day date's 4 WG & 2 YG and 3 DJ's , whatever I buy will only be worn sparingly. The more I look the 16523 with either white or black dial is what I want. It will be my only two tone watch. Jacek has one now @ 15.3k but there are plenty to choose from.

Chris

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by springer

I want through the same quandary as you during 2007 when I purchased a gorgeous, two-tone "S" serial numbered 16753 Daytona with the inverted six white dial. It was a complete set, except for the green hang tag. It was priced much less than the stainless steel model, but I was looking for more of a "dress" watch and this seemed to be a good fit for me.

I owned it for 10 years and the appreciation was very little during that time. When I sold it during August 2017, I received $9,900. which was about $3,000 more than I paid for the watch during February 2007. During this same 10-year time span of ownership, the stainless steel model appreciated substantially more than my two-tone model.

My point here is, get what suits you, the stainless steel models will always outperform and appreciate more than the two-tone Daytona models. Time, collect-ability and appreciation really hasn't changed much since 2007 for these two models and I don't see that changing. It seems that most of the Rolex two-tone models always seem to lag behind in value when compared to their stainless steel counterparts.

Nice - I actually prefer the white, over the black, as the black outer circles on subdials are distinct and give some contrast - which is my main criticism of all 40mm auto Daytonas (over Manual), is most have lack of dial contrast.

[Ferrari GTO]

SS will always be more desirable - gap diminished in the last years as S&G also became harder to find.

For the prices you mentioned I don't think you can find very good daytonas 1652X, but maybe the US market is different.

Believe the later S&G Daytonas can have better dial options (blue racing, panda racing, MOP) which set the watch apart from the SS one. On the other side 16520 is the automatic SS Daytona to have IMHO.

Ultimate suggestion - would never buy a "cheap" polished Daytona... polishing on daytonas can really ruin the watch

[bmwsubmariner]

Originally Posted by swish77

Ditto. Buy the watch you love and you'll be fine. Much more important to consider is the condition of whichever Daytona you buy. Don't bargain hunt.

Where are you seeing Zenith Daytonas as low as $21K? Presumably mediocre examples without B&P. They're come down in price over the last 6 months, but I don't see that it's quite that much.

Would you say a good B&P Zenith Daytona with SEL's is going to be $24-25k? I know Fog City has one for around $24k and Jacek typically seems to be $25k or so.

[bmwsubmariner]

My take is that I prefer stainless, but that has been my preference for the past 10+ years. My friend has a 16523, white dial and I'm a huge fan of it, but I'd still prefer stainless for myself. I'd think that either of them will be easy to sell in the future, you're going to get the TT for less up front but you're locking up less money. Buy whichever one you like more. If you like the 16523 but are concerned about being more difficult to sell, I'd just put the $10k difference into a high yield savings account, or CD or S&P 500 Index fund and that'll cover any difficulty in selling and needing to reduce the price to sell in the future.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by bmwsubmariner

My take is that I prefer stainless, but that has been my preference for the past 10+ years. My friend has a 16523, white dial and I'm a huge fan of it, but I'd still prefer stainless for myself. I'd think that either of them will be easy to sell in the future, you're going to get the TT for less up front but you're locking up less money. Buy whichever one you like more. If you like the 16523 but are concerned about being more difficult to sell, I'd just put the $10k difference into a high yield savings account, or CD or S&P 500 Index fund and that'll cover any difficulty in selling and needing to reduce the price to sell in the future.

Nowadays, I'm seeing nice 16520 examples (usually polished) in the $26K-$27K range, and unpolished collector examples closer to $30K and above. These are usually with papers but are often not full sets, meaning with all boxes, manuals, tags, etc ... That affects the price, of course. Also, that's in the U.S. Europe is higher, as usual.

Still, if you're not a stickler for case condition and B&P, good deals can be had right now in the lower $20Ks from what I have been seeing.

BTW, high-yield savings accounts are a thing of the past, in my experience anyway, but that's a discussion for a different forum.

[bmwsubmariner]

Originally Posted by swish77

Nowadays, I'm seeing nice 16520 examples (usually polished) in the $26K-$27K range, and unpolished collector examples closer to $30K and above. These are usually with papers but are often not full sets, meaning with all boxes, manuals, tags, etc ... That affects the price, of course. Also, that's in the U.S. Europe is higher, as usual.

Still, if you're not a stickler for case condition and B&P, good deals can be had right now in the lower $20Ks from what I have been seeing.

BTW, high-yield savings accounts are a thing of the past, in my experience anyway, but that's a discussion for a different forum.

All good info! My hope is that if I decide to go with a 16520, I'll be able to get some info from the seller to make sure that the case condition is strong, but may still post here to be sure I'm not missing anything since I'm not a vintage expert.

I'm definitely a stickler for condition and also at least a set that has papers, but would prefer a full set example with everything, although I know many of these watches have had full sets that have been pieced together over the years.

If buying from a reputable seller, I'd think they'd be able to confirm that it is what I'm expecting.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by bmwsubmariner

All good info! My hope is that if I decide to go with a 16520, I'll be able to get some info from the seller to make sure that the case condition is strong, but may still post here to be sure I'm not missing anything since I'm not a vintage expert.

I'm definitely a stickler for condition and also at least a set that has papers, but would prefer a full set example with everything, although I know many of these watches have had full sets that have been pieced together over the years.

If buying from a reputable seller, I'd think they'd be able to confirm that it is what I'm expecting.

I wouldn't rely on the seller to tell you if the case is in good condition and the "full set" is authentic and original. IMO, there's no substitute for thorough research and first-hand knowledge by the buyer.

[hutch300]

Originally Posted by bmwsubmariner

Would you say a good B&P Zenith Daytona with SEL's is going to be $24-25k? I know Fog City has one for around $24k and Jacek typically seems to be $25k or so.

The one Fog City has seems like a good value. Case is nice but has had a light polish so you can decide what you want to do moving forward. Tim (Fog City) is a straight shooter and honestly represents his inventory.

[indianmachine]

Seems like a great time to buy a SS 16520 given the pricing declines over the past few years.

[subtona]

Go with SS or go straight to something legible….

Have you taken a look at the 5 digit submariner or explorer II perhaps :)