Is This Years' W&W The Most Entertaining To Date On TRF?

[enjoythemusic]

Not the show specifically, but the comments and threads.

On the big plus side, nice to see the market slowly regaining a good balance of supply versus demand. This could very well be a historic turning point year for the horology business side of things.

Imho what's more important is the many incredible newly-crafted creations from both mainstream commercial brands and small handcrafted independent watchmakers.

2024 could indeed be a very historic year

[Colorado_kid]

“A phase in which all manufacturers were doing well is coming to an end,” he said. “In good times, too much is often produced. When the markets weaken, as is the case now, watch dealers come under pressure and respond with discounts. This is extremely problematic because discounts damage emotional products like ours.”


Was just reading this and I agree, this year will be a ‘back to reality’ year.

And I’m actually excited for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Colorado_kid

“A phase in which all manufacturers were doing well is coming to an end,” he said. “In good times, too much is often produced. When the markets weaken, as is the case now, watch dealers come under pressure and respond with discounts. This is extremely problematic because discounts damage emotional products like ours.”


Was just reading this and I agree, this year will be a ‘back to reality’ year.

And I’m actually excited for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Discounts are extremely problematic because it pops his exclusivity balloon and restores the reality that it’s just a watch, not an icon.

I too am excited for a return to the former status quo where attracting and keeping customers meant dealers had to provide an excellent in store experience and the opportunity to negotiate the sale price of a watch.

[enjoythemusic]

Agreed store experience has been challenging, especially when the staff had to endure 100 flippers a day. i totally felt for the Rolex SA in Vegas as was just hanging back and watching her gently handle 'customer' after 'customer'....

Am sure store employees are welcoming true enthusiasts once again being the norm.

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by Maleg

Discounts are extremely problematic because it pops his exclusivity balloon and restores the reality that it’s just a watch, not an icon.

I too am excited for a return to the former status quo where attracting and keeping customers meant dealers had to provide an excellent in store experience and the opportunity to negotiate the sale price of a watch.

I suspect some discounting changes nothing re: icon status / aspirational product. Rolex didn’t ramp production dramatically, creating some of the issues people are upset over. Their approach, however, also protects them on the downside.

My AD still offers a good experience, just as they did pre-hype cycle. I expect more supply for some watches as the flippers back off. But I don’t see any of this hurting the Rolex brand position.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by BraveBold

I suspect some discounting changes nothing re: icon status / aspirational product. Rolex didn’t ramp production dramatically, creating some of the issues people are upset over. Their approach, however, also protects them on the downside.

My AD still offers a good experience, just as they did pre-hype cycle. I expect more supply for some watches as the flippers back off. But I don’t see any of this hurting the Rolex brand position.

Rolex has never been an exclusive brand. It is a luxury brand, but the only requirement to attain it was cash or good credit. Over the last 50 years or so that I’ve been perusing ADs, all models were available in the showcase at one time or another. The hype bubble changed that and many ADs lost their incentive to provide an exceptional service experience for the Rolex buyer.

[cdmorenot]

It's been interesting to read about the utter disappointment the releases have brought to some ... Kind of makes me wonder if those same ones have ever experienced "real" disappointment in their lives.

[superdog]

I have not looked at the boards yet. Likely I will not. But I am assuming you are correct and they are very entertaining.

I am curious how many will treat AD's at this point.

I was one of the ones that was very grateful and very friendly. Well before the pop. And well before it was hard to get watches. I would host networking parties and even bring my bottles from time to time. I like to show my appreciation to people.

I was dropped like a hot potato. Cars and watches. But mostly watches.

I will always be nice and polite. But I will not be that same guy again.

I would buy from an AD even when I could have saved money going gray. Not again. My loyalty is gone.


edit to add I am already getting a huge amount of calls from car dealers. I imagine watches will be next.

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by Maleg

Rolex has never been an exclusive brand. It is a luxury brand, but the only requirement to attain it was cash or good credit. Over the last 50 years or so that I’ve been perusing ADs, all models were available in the showcase at one time or another. The hype bubble changed that and many ADs lost their incentive to provide an exceptional service experience for the Rolex buyer.

Agree re: some ADs and behavior. At least based on anecdotes here. Though I didn’t get my Daytona in 2019 out of any display case…

As for exclusive. Not the word I used but in any event Rolex has been an aspirational/iconic brand my entire life. I’m 40… and whether watches are available in display cases or not is a moot point. The only difference is they (Rolex) didn’t a) adjust supply or b) adjust prices sufficiently to meet market demand as it spiked. People could still buy a Rolex - but at the market (not retail) price. As demand eases they have no real problem re: branding. They will still be aspirational and iconic. Thanks to them not overreacting and massively raising prices or supply…

As for ADs, the question for me is whether the hype cycle did more net harm or good for those that may have relaxed standards of service, particularly for their non-flipping clientele. Unclear how this will play out…

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by superdog

I am already getting a huge amount of calls from car dealers. I imagine watches will be next.

~50 ft catamaran boats... that market has cratered.

Look forward to a balance of supply and demand, and to many newly-trained watchmakers who help service these mechanical marvels.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Ever heard of monetary debasement, Jean? lol

The problem isn't the price of Gold. It's the fact that wages have been plummeting in real terms for decades... and accelerating at the fastest rate in modern history right now.

Surprised a bit by his comments. Doesn't make for instilling a great deal of confidence in the brand.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by cdmorenot

It's been interesting to read about the utter disappointment the releases have brought to some ... Kind of makes me wonder if those same ones have ever experienced "real" disappointment in their lives.

The most exciting thing to be released/unveiled on the first day of Watches and Wonder is the new 6th generation Toyota 4runner.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by texasmade

The most exciting thing to be released/unveiled on the first day of Watches and Wonder is the new 6th generation Toyota 4runner.

Is that the boom-music car i keep hearing during W&W videos? For a moment there i felt W&W had also become an IASCA event.

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Not the show specifically, but the comments and threads. :

It's sadly and easily all so predictable.
dP

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

It's sadly and easily all so predictable.
dP

indeed. every year it is a similar story. but apparently this years releases were really disappointing.

I honestly forgot it was happening. and I would not have even seen the new watches if friends had not sent or if they were not posted in chat groups I am a part of.

I just dont care that much anymore.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

It's sadly and easily all so predictable.
dP

Very true, and also shows the emotion and sentiment of the market. There's more than meets the eye about... and it gives good data point(s). Look at how few flipping / profiteering threads started on TRF this week as compared to just a few years ago. My thread asking who called their AD and reserved a new 2024 model is also quite telling.

We live in interesting times.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Very true, and also shows the emotion and sentiment of the market. There's more than meets the eye about... and it gives good data point(s). Look at how few flipping / profiteering threads started on TRF this week as compared to just a few years ago. My thread asking who called their AD and reserved a new 2024 model is also quite telling.

We live in interesting times.

that is a thread I am now interested in seeing. curious how that one plays out.

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by texasmade

The most exciting thing to be released/unveiled on the first day of Watches and Wonder is the new 6th generation Toyota 4runner.

Here too, by miles.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by texasmade

The most exciting thing to be released/unveiled on the first day of Watches and Wonder is the new 6th generation Toyota 4runner.

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Here too, by miles.

I too agree.

[rlawall]

Originally Posted by superdog

I have not looked at the boards yet. Likely I will not. But I am assuming you are correct and they are very entertaining.

I am curious how many will treat AD's at this point.

I was one of the ones that was very grateful and very friendly. Well before the pop. And well before it was hard to get watches. I would host networking parties and even bring my bottles from time to time. I like to show my appreciation to people.

I was dropped like a hot potato. Cars and watches. But mostly watches.

I will always be nice and polite. But I will not be that same guy again.

I would buy from an AD even when I could have saved money going gray. Not again. My loyalty is gone.


edit to add I am already getting a huge amount of calls from car dealers. I imagine watches will be next.

Same. There was a dealer near me in NJ (has since lost it's Rolex dealership) that I would look forward to visiting and chatting watches. They opened a Rolex brand boutique, and the manager from the Rolex dealer had become the manager of the Brand Boutique. He barely acknowledged me (after many long conversations in the past) when I went in to say hi, and didn't respond to a follow up email. It will never be my job to convince a dealer of anything that they should sell to me. It will always be their job to convince me to buy from them.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by Colorado_kid

Gold at 66K SFR vs. 18K SFR...

And what was the price of a gold Rolex 30 years ago?

And what was the overall cost of production of a gold Rolex 30 years ago relative to the price?

[Colorado_kid]

It’s funny the CEO brings up the high cost of gold while simultaneously launching their largest and heaviest watch in solid yellow gold.

Boss move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Colorado_kid

It’s funny the CEO brings up the high cost of gold while simultaneously launching their largest and heaviest watch in solid yellow gold.

Boss move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rolex should just do a platinum version with ice blue dial in 2 years.

[Colorado_kid]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Rolex should just do a platinum version with ice blue dial in 2 years.

Absolutely they should!

Oh, you crybabies wanted a coke? Too bad, here’s a 3lb brick of platinum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enjoythemusic]

Tudor just released a Coke. Plus you can do rubber or bracelet. It's METAS-certified too, and with new movement so case is only 12mm thick. Costs less than a Rolex too.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Colorado_kid

Absolutely they should!

Oh, you crybabies wanted a coke? Too bad, here’s a 3lb brick of platinum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I remember when AP released a full platinum bracelet ROO a few years ago and ppl were saying how heavy that watch was. I'm hoping Rolex can make an even heavier full platinum bracelet watch just to outdo AP.