10 1/2 Hunter interchangability?

[unreformed66]

I recently ended up with this little guy and obviously it needs a few things. I've go the balance staff on the way, that wasn't hard to find. But I also need the seconds pinion, the seconds driving wheel, and the tension spring. I've not had much luck so far in finding them. I was wondering if parts from any other movements are compatible? The tension spring sure looks like the one from other Rolex movements but of course there's no way to tell without either just knowing or having one laying around to try. Any input would be appreciated!

[R.W.T.]

the answer is no and no.

Sort of...but the ones that would be interchangeable would be rarer.

Your hairspring is a bit mess it looks like from here.

I might have a new one of each.

Staff is also not easy. The ones in the wild the collet shoulder is too big. Most likely it's a 40 and the ones that are around are 50 and 55.

I'll look later and see what I have as far as the intermediate wheel and the spring go.

Oh yes and sweep pinion.

[unreformed66]

Well I figured it would be too easy for something from a later model to work and thanks for the answer. The hairspring wasn't bad, it just had a slight bend in the outer coil that needed corrected. I did it right after I took those pictures. I'll have to see what the collet diameter on the new staff is once it gets here. If worse comes to worst I could always chuck it up and turn it down as long as the other dimensions are all correct or at least close. Too big is never a problem. Just an annoyance and time consumer. Too small I haven't figured out how to fix yet...;).

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by unreformed66

Well I figured it would be too easy for something from a later model to work and thanks for the answer. The hairspring wasn't bad, it just had a slight bend in the outer coil that needed corrected. I did it right after I took those pictures. I'll have to see what the collet diameter on the new staff is once it gets here. If worse comes to worst I could always chuck it up and turn it down as long as the other dimensions are all correct or at least close. Too big is never a problem. Just an annoyance and time consumer. Too small I haven't figured out how to fix yet...;).

I love it when I'm talking to a watchmaker :-)

Yes you can turn the shoulder down!

There's a few pivot sizes but the available staff should work in that period watch.

You may find that the roller shoulder is too small...you might have to use the "no no" tool and burr the roller a little. Not a huge deal. The shoulder should be close but they are a hair under sized sometimes.

Great on the HS. Love it when it's simple. These days I'm just not into trying to fix a BAD one..a simple tweak on the over coil or the outer coil...no big deal. The geometry of that overcoil...I've spent a lot of time...somehow they all fit up a little different.

All of the other sweep springs...don't fit. You COULD use a 1030 but it's gonna stick out a little bit beyond the pinion and if there is any wobble in the independent drive wheel...well it will hit the spring..no bueno.

Those parts are not cheap when you can find new ones..but the watch is cool fixed and has some decent value.

That's an odd one because ...it's only 3 positions and marked Chronometre and even when that was made you had to have 6 and hot and cold for the rating, at least that was what my 1938 cert said. 3 position movements are RARE in Rolex...I've see a handful. That movement is 1940 or before approximately because of the single screw upper escape wheel cap jewel that attaches from the bottom of the train bridge. Later they went to the 2 screws on the top and the cap jewel doesn't have that bezel affair but rather is set in a setting that is one piece.

I'll see if I can round up the 3 bits. Give me a bit.

You can email me.

RolexWatchTime@att.net

Best,

Tommy

[unreformed66]

Hi Tommy. Yes, I'm coming up on my third decade of watch repair sooner than I'd care to admit..lol. And I wouldn't know anything about the "no-no" tool that you refer to..... Hopefully it won't be necessary but it's not the end of the world if it is. The staff is supposed to show up here tomorrow according to the tracking so if I feel like it after work I'll see how it measures up. I did find a cracked lower escape wheel jewel when I tore the movement down so that's one more thing on the list to do but thankfully the pivot is in good shape. It must have gotten cracked at the same time that the balance staff got broken.
I've been collecting and repairing for a long time but I'm fairly new to the vintage Rolex scene so I appreciate your insight. I had no idea that the movement was unusual but I was surprised when I cranked off the back and saw a 3 position movement marked as a chronometer. My first thought was that the movement had had a bridge changed at some point. The serial number on the watch is telling me late 1942 or early 1943 and you say the movement is earlier than that and I'll take your word for it so I wonder how the two ended up together. Was it factory? Is it a later marriage? I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people here on the forum about that subject.

[R.W.T.]

No hard fast rules with Rolex...The cap jewel change happened somewhere in the early forties. I haven't seen anything later than 40 but also the lists from then are compiled and not documented.

Remember too, that the number for the year would be the END of that year not the beginning.

If you will look underneath on the underside of the bridges they are all hand numbered to match the number on the front. These movements were not standardized to the extent of the 10xx series. They were hand fit so to speak. A bridge WILL interchange but not always gracefully ( I should say this is ESPECIALLY the case with the balance cock) so...you can tell if your bridges are from your watch by the numbers. Occasionally a replacement bridge will not be numbered. If there IS a number and it doesn't match your movement's base plate serial...one or the other has been replaced.

My mentor referred to the triangle punch in the Boley set number 112 as the "no no" tool. I don't see a similar punch in my K and D set. You can set the roller up on the staking base and just put that stake in the hole on both sides and give it a little tap. NOT HARD. It will give just enough grip to hold that roller on a small shoulder.

[unreformed66]

I was kidding about not knowing about the "no-no" punch. I've burred more than a few roller tables through the years. You run into that a lot in vintage American pocket watches and I've worked on literally thousands of them over the decades. I'll have to see if the numbers are on the bridges and if they match. American makers did the same thing, they would stamp the last few digits of the serial number on every bridge underneath.

[R.W.T.]

I see :-)

George called it the no no...so that's what I picked up. Once the 1030 came out the necessity for numbering the bridges was over and discontinued.

Let me know what you find.

I'll get to the bins today hopefully or later in the week and see if I can find those parts.

[unreformed66]

And I think I might have just got lucky on Ebay. There's also a pack of 5 for 7 1/4 ligne Rolex and several for IWC. There were no pictures of the packets open or the parts inside so I guess it's a gamble but what fun is life if you never take a chance? The seller advertised them as "zugfedern" which translates directly as tension spring and the IWC packs even say that on them so hopefully these are tension springs as well. The seller says they are but the internet translation program is kind of iffy on this translation from French.

[Dr.Smellody]

Originally Posted by unreformed66

And I think I might have just got lucky on Ebay. There's also a pack of 5 for 7 1/4 ligne Rolex and several for IWC. There were no pictures of the packets open or the parts inside so I guess it's a gamble but what fun is life if you never take a chance? The seller advertised them as "zugfedern" which translates directly as tension spring and the IWC packs even say that on them so hopefully these are tension springs as well. The seller says they are but the internet translation program is kind of iffy on this translation from French.

Nice find! I'm amazed at the bits that can be found. Bits that were likely readily available pre 1991.

[Richard Carver]

Love it when Tommy has a play date. :)

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by unreformed66

And I think I might have just got lucky on Ebay. There's also a pack of 5 for 7 1/4 ligne Rolex and several for IWC. There were no pictures of the packets open or the parts inside so I guess it's a gamble but what fun is life if you never take a chance? The seller advertised them as "zugfedern" which translates directly as tension spring and the IWC packs even say that on them so hopefully these are tension springs as well. The seller says they are but the internet translation program is kind of iffy on this translation from French.

Mainsprings.

[R.W.T.]

You are looking for a ressort de frein

Ressort (spring) de frein (of brake)

[R.W.T.]

Just practicing drums for my recording session tomorrow. You all WILL buy my album won't you?

[unreformed66]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

You are looking for a ressort de frein

Ressort (spring) de frein (of brake)

So what did I buy then? Any idea?

[R.W.T.]

Ressort (spring) de barillet (barrel)

Mainsprings.

[unreformed66]

Ah, so I just bought a bunch of old, set, blue steel mainsprings..lol. And some tension springs for IWC. Oh well, live and learn. At least they're in neat looking packages. And I just went and had a look at the little movement. All of the plates have the same 4 digit number on them, right down to the pallet bridge. So I guess it came that way from the factory.

[R.W.T.]

Yessir! Neat huh? The plates all match. :-)

The blue springs are still good if they're new. They won't last for ever but they generally aren't set when you unpack 'em.

They aren't white alloy but they'll certainly last a service interval. And you never know they could be white alloy too. Wait and see :-)

[SG56]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Love it when Tommy has a play date. :)

I thought the same thing

It was amusing to read the thread.

Good luck, Tommy!!!

[unreformed66]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Yessir! Neat huh? The plates all match. :-)

The blue springs are still good if they're new. They won't last for ever but they generally aren't set when you unpack 'em.

They aren't white alloy but they'll certainly last a service interval. And you never know they could be white alloy too. Wait and see :-)

My experience with blue steel springs is that they MIGHT be good. I've had some that worked just fine and others that were so crystallized that they broke either trying to get them into the barrel or the first time I wound the watch. I'm not sure what the difference is, maybe batches of steel or storage conditions through the years but I've had very mixed results from them. Basically I don't use one unless I have to and I've got tons of them laying around from all of the assortments of parts I've bought through the years. It's not such a big deal if a mainspring breaks in an American movement because almost all of them have Safety Pinions. Swiss watches for whatever reason never embraced that technology and as you well know things can get broken when mainsprings turn loose all at once.

[R.W.T.]

Yeah like on an 8 day aircraft clock.........

Most of the NA and 710 blue springs I have come in contact with are pretty good NOS.

No real issues but I agree. I don't use them because the aftermarket springs are just fine really. Like I said...those could very well be white, but you don't know til you get them.

[unreformed66]

Oh well. I got them so cheaply that it doesn't really matter much one way or the other, and it makes for more parts for the pile...

[unreformed66]

Well Tommy, you were right about the staff. I need the one that's around 40 and this one measures a little over 50. But the pivots fit the jewels well and the roller post measures a smidgen larger than the staff that was in it which is good because I thought the roller came off a little bit too easily anyway. So off to the lathe we go...