SS v PM Daytona Debate

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by pkincy

At some point you need to think about walking around with $40-70 k on your wrist. And that really doesn't matter how much money you have. Is it advisable or even necessary? I suppose if you want to why not, but it seems a bit excessive in many instances.

As opposed to walking around with $25K on your wrist. I get your point. One word, insurance. How about driving a nice car? Only difference is that insurance is mandatory on the future rust bucket. Timex and Kias are all anyone would own if they followed that approach to its logical conclusion.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by Etschell

PM always trumps ss. I dont care if it is Newman's watch.

When it comes to what it is worth, I’m pretty sure Newman’s Daytona “trumps” what the PM Daytona’s are worth. Btw Eric, I really like your Meet a Rolex Forum Member posts. Keep up the good work.


Russell

[GreatCircle]

This topic needs some pictures. Winner !

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by GreatCircle

This topic needs some pictures. Winner !

I agree; two current pieces available is SS with a plethora of options in PM. That's a lovely watch!!!!

[steve k]

I am one of the few that went from Black face 116500ln to a 116515 OF Everose and I will never look back.

I bought my 500 in the high teens (nib) and did well by selling it more than what I bought it for. The 515 eve rose was also nib and purchased on a reasonable discount from a grey.

For the reasons below I wanted out of 500 because of the following:

1) Wanted my money out of the mark up before the bubble bursts
2) Never feels like a $20k+ watch and this bothered me because I did not buy it for msrp. Wanted something that felt 2x more special than my sub C if it would cost 20K.
3) I hate the PCL's after casual wear but love them when it is brand new. It is a problem for me since I wear all my watches.
4) I have a black sub C and it always competed since the dial and the bracelet are somewhat similar but it never blew the sub C out of the park.
5) I couldn't help but to notice the pm models came with no pcl's, thicker and heftier feeling cases, and TRUE PANDA DIALS!!

The SS Daytona is great for msrp but for anything 15+, get a two tone at a smoking deal to get it out of your system.

[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by steve k

I am one of the few that went from Black face 116500ln to a 116515 OF Everose and I will never look back.

I bought my 500 in the high teens (nib) and did well by selling it more than what I bought it for. The 515 eve rose was also nib and purchased on a reasonable discount from a grey.

For the reasons below I wanted out of 500 because of the following:

1) Wanted my money out of the mark up before the bubble bursts
2) Never feels like a $20k+ watch and this bothered me because I did not buy it for msrp. Wanted something that felt 2x more special than my sub C if it would cost 20K.
3) I hate the PCL's after casual wear but love them when it is brand new. It is a problem for me since I wear all my watches.
4) I have a black sub C and it always competed since the dial and the bracelet are somewhat similar but it never blew the sub C out of the park.
5) I couldn't help but to notice the pm models came with no pcl's, thicker and heftier feeling cases, and TRUE PANDA DIALS!!

The SS Daytona is great for msrp but for anything 15+, get a two tone at a smoking deal to get it out of your system.

There’s something to be said for the TT. Not my bag, but a friend has one and it’s a damn good looking watch esp with the bezel updates from a couple of years ago. Pity they discontinued the panda and blue dials


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[peterpl]

Originally Posted by steve k

I am one of the few that went from Black face 116500ln to a 116515 OF Everose and I will never look back.

I bought my 500 in the high teens (nib) and did well by selling it more than what I bought it for. The 515 eve rose was also nib and purchased on a reasonable discount from a grey.

For the reasons below I wanted out of 500 because of the following:

1) Wanted my money out of the mark up before the bubble bursts
2) Never feels like a $20k+ watch and this bothered me because I did not buy it for msrp. Wanted something that felt 2x more special than my sub C if it would cost 20K.
3) I hate the PCL's after casual wear but love them when it is brand new. It is a problem for me since I wear all my watches.
4) I have a black sub C and it always competed since the dial and the bracelet are somewhat similar but it never blew the sub C out of the park.
5) I couldn't help but to notice the pm models came with no pcl's, thicker and heftier feeling cases, and TRUE PANDA DIALS!!

The SS Daytona is great for msrp but for anything 15+, get a two tone at a smoking deal to get it out of your system.

Pretty much sums it up exactly the way I felt especially the feeling that the SS Daytona did not feel like a $20k+ watch to me. Not even close.

I would buy a SS Daytona at MSRP or maybe a little more but I think $20k+ is just ludacris for a watch that is not that special. Lucky I got to try my friends for a good 3 weeks and that confirmed for me 100% that the SS Daytona is not a watch I would pay a massive premium for.

[Calatrava r]

Its all about the price point. 13k as opposed to 27K or 35K. There is not much market for watches which retail at 27K and above. The market is strong at the 13K level. What is happening is that people are looking at PM OF because the price is almost the same as SS but the demand is still not enough to inflate the aftermarket price on the PM. But the PM OF are holding values a first for PM Rolex.

[Gladiat0r]

Love my black dial TT. Bought it for around $11-12k. It looks beautiful in person and it’s a watch that gets constant compliments. I can’t see spending into the $20s to get an SS unless you truly just loved it.

With that said, the Daytona does wear a bit small. I don’t think I could daily a Daytona. I wear my TT a bit like a dress watch (it’s not dress but the small elegant size and pretty gold subdials are nice). So I feel that if you go Daytona it might as well be PM or TT considering the price savings and the fact that it’s pretty small and almost dainty. Just my opinion. I respect the guy who spends $24k on the SS because he loves it that much. I just found that the TT did it for me for half the price and I feel I got a more “valuable” (msrp) watch and a prettier one too.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by steve k

I am one of the few that went from Black face 116500ln to a 116515 OF Everose and I will never look back.

I bought my 500 in the high teens (nib) and did well by selling it more than what I bought it for. The 515 eve rose was also nib and purchased on a reasonable discount from a grey.

For the reasons below I wanted out of 500 because of the following:

1) Wanted my money out of the mark up before the bubble bursts
2) Never feels like a $20k+ watch and this bothered me because I did not buy it for msrp. Wanted something that felt 2x more special than my sub C if it would cost 20K.
3) I hate the PCL's after casual wear but love them when it is brand new. It is a problem for me since I wear all my watches.
4) I have a black sub C and it always competed since the dial and the bracelet are somewhat similar but it never blew the sub C out of the park.
5) I couldn't help but to notice the pm models came with no pcl's, thicker and heftier feeling cases, and TRUE PANDA DIALS!!

The SS Daytona is great for msrp but for anything 15+, get a two tone at a smoking deal to get it out of your system.

Thanks Steve. An excellent answer. I think the answer to my question is made worse by the that fact that one cannot try any of the SS watches on first. I wonder if many could try on the 500, they'd still want it for $22-25k compared to a PM piece for slightly more?

[sgfortino]

Originally Posted by joli160

I like the case size of the PM Daytona much more, combined with the feeling of PM worth the extra imho

Is the case size different between the SS and PM models? I thought they were all 40mm?

I have the 116500 but am considering the OF 116519 and had thought the cases were the same size.

[yOyOYoo]

Originally Posted by sgfortino

Is the case size different between the SS and PM models? I thought they were all 40mm?

I have the 116500 but am considering the OF 116519 and had thought the cases were the same size.

I just recently learned that the SS Daytona has asymmetrical lugs - one side is slightly thinner than the other side. The PM Daytona has symmetrical lugs, so it is slightly larger than the SS.

[TimeToWatch]

Originally Posted by sgfortino

Is the case size different between the SS and PM models? I thought they were all 40mm?

I have the 116500 but am considering the OF 116519 and had thought the cases were the same size.

Here's a comparison

[inadeje]

I’m a proponent of going pristine pm daytona with a unique pm only dial instead of the ss ceramic. My market analysis uncovers a 4-6k usd price difference. However, the pm is +40k from the AD while the Daytona Ceramic is 13k.

WG Daytona - 25-33k
Ss ceramic - 23-28k

[GreatCircle]

Originally Posted by yOyOYoo

I just recently learned that the SS Daytona has asymmetrical lugs - one side is slightly thinner than the other side. The PM Daytona has symmetrical lugs, so it is slightly larger than the SS.

There is also a lot more “meat” at the crownguards and pushers with the PM versions!

[Solo118]

Originally Posted by sgfortino

Is the case size different between the SS and PM models? I thought they were all 40mm?

I have the 116500 but am considering the OF 116519 and had thought the cases were the same size.

There is a slight difference in the lugs. The SS model has slimmer lugs on the right side only, and all of the 18k models have a thicker lug design. Hard to tell on the wrist, but I think the 18k models do wear a bit bigger.

Right now the real value is in the 509 and 519 models.

[holdtime]

Originally Posted by TimeToWatch

PM was my choice. 24k for a 12k watch or 28k for a 28k watch?

This

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Fchernyak

Facts


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At this point if you want a Daytona, it has to be a PM model. Go big at a better value or forget it.

[fsprow]

My simple rule is that if a watch is going to be used hard (diving, sports etc) stainless steel is the best choice. If for office work or dress - platinum, gold or SS are all great.

[Spoonage]

It boggles me on spending 20k+ on a current model SS Daytona. I guess I was lucky enough to get mine a MSRP but that's a different story. At that price I would be looking at PM pieces...

[Deep18]

At current market prices I’d rather a rose/white gold Daytona on an oysterflex.

[richard371]

I often ask myself if someone offered me an even trade 116519 for my 500 and I did the trade would I feel the same about it 2 years later as I do my SS 500. To me a SS Daytona is the Daytona regardless of price. Even history proves that.

[Monty22]

Originally Posted by peterpl

PM waste of money yet your considering paying upwards of $22k for a stainless steel piece?

Firstly buying ANY watch for > a few grand is a waste of money
Secondly the current over inflated bubble of SS you'd be silly not to seriously consider PM
Thirdly go try a SS Daytona. I have numerous times in fact wore one daily for weeks. I'm sorry to be blunt but that watch does NOT feel like a $22k watch at all.

Thank you. I get the impression that all the talk about how great SS is versus PM is just rationalizing paying WAY too much in the current environment


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[fjack88]

I was once sticking with SS model for the most part, but upon having my first PM in 116515, I must say that the shine in the sunburst dial, the heft and the presence on the wrist, is just a totally different experience for me. Something the photos cannot do justice with.


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[NYG1121]

If you pay 22k for a SS daytona today = most likely it will be worth more than that 10 years from now

If you pay 25k for a PM daytona on OF = Most likely it will be worth 50-60% of that in 10 years.

It's not so crazy if you think of that way. In the end, value only lies in what retains it.

[t65tampa]

I've had two stainless steel 116520 Daytona watches, a black and then a white dial. I liked them both, but I like the way the gold Daytona feels on the wrist more. My 116508 is one of my favorite watches.

I personally would not pay the current aftermarket prices for the stainless steel models right now. I bought mine from local dealers. I don't begrudge somebody for wanting to pay those prices though as it is their money, not mine.

[aparker973]

I think we often forget how important it is to see these things in the flesh before making a decision.

The SS Daytona did not speak to me at all. The prior generations did so much more to excite me. I'm in the minority here, but in my view the new black bezel took away from the aesthetic. Particularly while handling it. Pictures do the "new" Daytona a lot of justice-- maybe too much, in my humble opinion.

[BawlaDK]

I bought a used but very nice 116519 at 16.5K USD - and opted to put a brand new WG bezel on it as well as a panda dial. That operation set me back a cool 2000 USD, but I got the old dial and bezel back ans sold it off at aprox 1500 USD... So all in all that watch cost me 17K USD and I then added a RubberB on it at 200 USD. 17.2K USD for a PM Daytona Panda full set in absolutely mint condition... I dont get why anyone would even consider buying a SS Daytona when one can get a PM at a much lower price.

[RolexBrian]

Would that still be considered original?

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

If you pay 22k for a SS daytona today = most likely it will be worth more than that 10 years from now



If you pay 25k for a PM daytona on OF = Most likely it will be worth 50-60% of that in 10 years.



It's not so crazy if you think of that way. In the end, value only lies in what retains it.

If I may, this broad dialogue (and not the OP or specific comments ) speaks to what is wrong with watch collecting today: it’s not about the watches anymore, but their status and how much they’ll be worth in X number of years. Many years ago, watches were just watches, bought and sold. Many some made money, most didn’t. But they were bought for the love of the watch, without concerns about resale, making a profit in flipping, etc.

I know many here buy watches for the love of them, and I know that most are not made of money and it’s nice to break even or perhaps make a small profit when selling a watch. However, many don’t. It’s just about status and maximum profit. Old story of the few mucking it up for the many.


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