Doctored gmt

[johnny.h]

Hi guys , love to know your thoughts guys on this gmt I bought from a private source a while ago no papers I know stupid of me tried to sell to a dealer this what he found when the bracelet was taken off needless to say he declined to buy it as part exchange on another watch love to know your thoughts guys.

[J_1964]

Oh Man! That's Not Good.... That's your problem now, Forever....

It may be stolen, but You Will Never Know. Well, wear it in good health and maybe pass it down to a family member.

[johnny.h]

Yeah my thoughts as well bud

[Cryten]

It likely was stolen. There's no legitimate reason to modify a serial number.

[J_1964]

Well, now since "Originality" is Not a consideration, you can do what ever you want.
i.e. different bezel inserts, different bracelets ect. Have Fun With It.

[johnny.h]

Just wondered if I should let Rolex have it if it is stolen then I lose a watch if it isn’t then I have a Rolex I know it’s unsellable but it will put my mind to rest.

[Cryten]

If the original serial number is unable to be deciphered, there's probably no point as it'll never be reunited with it's owner.

That would certainly change my feelings about a watch though, knowing someone somewhere is missing their watch.

[J_1964]

Originally Posted by cryten

if the original serial number is unable to be deciphered, there's probably no point as it'll never be reunited with it's owner.

That would certainly change my feelings about a watch though, knowing someone somewhere is missing their watch.

+1

[Chewbacca]

Can it be matched to the movement number? Might be able to find out the original serial number that way.

[J_1964]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Can it be matched to the movement number? Might be able to find out the original serial number that way.

I didn't know that Rolex movements are serialized.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by J_1964

I didn't know that Rolex movements are serialized.

I believe every post 1971 Rolex has a calibre sn with the exception of the Zenith Daytona and Tudor models pre-1995 but I’m no expert.

There’s also build papers that match cases with calibre numbers based on other forums.

But I’d maybe pose the Q in the Tech Forum.

[thesharkfactor]

Ouch.
My thoughts.. It most likely has history of theft and it is likely that the poor soul who lost it has been reimbursed by an insurer. Turning it over to Rolex may achieve nothing but you also losing out.

I think you have three options.. either try find a source to grind off the serial completely, live with it, or sell it on ebay auction and hope you hear the last of it.

[RHJ]

Why you cannot ask Rolex itself how to deal with this? It's not your fault and you want to clear the situation. Just ask...

[bonatto]

A friend of mine had one of these robbed from him at gunpoint in Brazil a number of years ago. I would not want a watch which has been fruit of theft.

[MorningTundra]

Rolex movements are numbered and they’ll know the case number it was paired with. Service records will have this data too. You could ask them to see if it matches a known intl police report...

If you can’t match it to the owner, you could part it out and try to recover some costs. The movement, dial and hands have considerable value still.




Sent from my cracked, broken hand wound phone. IG @morning_tundra

[offrdmania]

I would go back to where you bought it and get a refund for it, even if it was a while ago. Let them know that you want your money back or you are going to contact the police.

[GLADIATOR]

Removed

[johnny.h]

Thanks for the comments guys much appreciated as for contacting the person I got from I have tried to make contact but has gone to ground so I’m going to send it to Rolex let them sort it out

[ttnpb]

I really hope you “doing the right thing” doesn’t cost you a watch, and earn you a “thanks”.

[77T]

I don’t see how Rolex would figure out if it was stolen since they can’t know what the original s/n was.



But they will not work on it without a service mid-case replacement IMHO.


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[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

Ouch.
My thoughts.. It most likely has history of theft and it is likely that the poor soul who lost it has been reimbursed by an insurer. Turning it over to Rolex may achieve nothing but you also losing out.

I think you have three options.. either try find a source to grind off the serial completely, live with it, or sell it on ebay auction and hope you hear the last of it.

I could not support this position. If it was truly stolen and an insurer paid out, they would most likely have a claim upon the watch. Such recoveries can affect the premium each of us pays to insure our property thereafter, before we even consider the ethical position.

Recovery of the watch for a legitimate claimant to title and perhaps providing information to the police that might lead to the detection of a crooked handler / thief are not "achieving nothing" in my world.

As for "grinding off the serial number completely" and "sell it on ebay and hope you hear the last of it," these actions would be wrong, also compromising and exposing the OP. They represent very bad options which should not be entertained.

This was an ill-considered post IMHO.

Further direct comment for the OP will follow shortly...

HM

[Haywood_Milton]

I agree that the watch is clearly re-numbered and this is most commonly to disguise one that has been obtained through crime.

There is sometimes a chance that Rolex UK can identify the original number even below fresh engraving (I will not say how), but this obliteration looks too extensive for that method to work.

Two other routes to identification remain:

1. Rolex service marks inside the case-back are uniquely tied to the case number. "LON 3/10 456789" is a hypothetical number representing a watch worked on by Rolex UK in March 2010 under service number 456789, which would have the case number recorded against it.

2. The movement will indeed have a unique number. Rolex were surprisingly slow to record movement numbers against case numbers, but I think their records would extend to a watch this recent.

Being in the OP's part of the world, I would be happy by prior arrangement to open the watch, record the movement number and see if any service marks are evident, for no charge of course.

If the case number cannot be identified through any of these routes then the OP would have shown all due diligence and propriety he could at this time. There would then seem no other outcome but for him to retain the watch, compromised in value as it is. Provided he never sold it with anything less than full disclosure, I think he could be happy at least knowing that he had done the right thing so far as anyone could.

Even if the case number can be identified / deduced, this does not mean the watch will automatically be lost to him. One would need to check it against a number of watch registers on which it might appear, but many stolen watches do not. Again, I would be willing to help the OP in this regard. If a match is found, due investigation would have to follow --- it is not simply a case of handing it over even then. Many a mistaken or nefarious claim of theft or loss is made every month. I know, as I often help the UK insurance trade in dealing with such criminality!

If no match could be found after having reasonably checked as many registers as possible, I would consider the OP to be in the same position as if the number could not be identified at all.

Rolex UK has a new regime of senior management which some feel less helpful than the previous. I do not comment.

I disclaim all liability for the above comments, offered pro bono.

Full marks to the OP for trying to determine the correct way forward.

Haywood

[johnny.h]

I would like to thank Haywood Milton for his concise comments and would like to take up the offer he has generously offered me in indentifying the watch

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

I could not support this position. If it was truly stolen and an insurer paid out, they would most likely have a claim upon the watch. Such recoveries can affect the premium each of us pays to insure our property thereafter, before we even consider the ethical position.

Recovery of the watch for a legitimate claimant to title and perhaps providing information to the police that might lead to the detection of a crooked handler / thief are not "achieving nothing" in my world.

As for "grinding off the serial number completely" and "sell it on ebay and hope you hear the last of it," these actions would be wrong, also compromising and exposing the OP. They represent very bad options which should not be entertained.

This was an ill-considered post IMHO.

Further direct comment for the OP will follow shortly...

HM

There is also a chance that the owner of the watch has not been reimbursed by an insurance because he had none or the insurance refused to pay.

I hope that the op is doing the right thing and is getting in touch with you.
No matter what; I would not want to own a watch that is probably stolen.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by johnny.h

I would like to thank Haywood Milton for his concise comments and would like to take up the offer he has generously offered me in indentifying the watch

Pleasure - would you drop a line to me through my website? Just put my name on it, I will see it as soon as it comes in anyway.

Thx H

[Burlington]

OP is a stand up guy. I applaud that.

Incredible offer of help too. Hope one way or another you find a successful outcome.

[77T]

Originally Posted by johnny.h

I would like to thank Haywood Milton for his concise comments and would like to take up the offer he has generously offered me in indentifying the watch

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Pleasure - would you drop a line to me through my website? Just put my name on it, I will see it as soon as it comes in anyway.

Thx H

Good on you for helping the OP. I hope you both have much luck in sorting it out. And please come back to share what you guys learn.


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[johnny.h]

Quick update watch has been looked at and all relevant agencies have been sent the information just waiting far the results,
CAN I THANK HAYWOOD MILTON FOR HIS AND HIS TEAM FOR ALL THEIR HELP.

[Onikage]

Interesting that someone would go to the trouble to re-engrave an anonymous serial. No way that would get past a reputable seller.. Or anyone but the most shortsighted of newbs.

[andrewjb88]

Originally Posted by johnny.h

Quick update watch has been looked at and all relevant agencies have been sent the information just waiting far the results,
CAN I THANK HAYWOOD MILTON FOR HIS AND HIS TEAM FOR ALL THEIR HELP.

Did you manage to track down an identifying number on it? Would Rolex UK be able to tell you if it was stolen just by giving them the number?