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Old 15 June 2018, 02:22 AM   #91
helo008
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Hey all, just went to the UPS store to have the package weighed and it was indeed 2.15 lbs. Will upload a photo of the weight later but can confirm this is the case.
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:27 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by wesdaniel View Post
In reading comments from both the seller and the buyer, it seems that they're both being reasonable and that there's good faith efforts here to be honest and do the right thing.

In the end, one of them might be scamming the other, but, it really doesn't look that way.

But, it does look to me like there's a bunch of kids standing around the two of them in the playground chanting, "fight, fight, fight!" in order turn what seems to be two reasonable people doing the right thing into two people at odds with each other.

I wish the two of them luck and hope that, whatever the right thing is happens.
Bingo! There's quite a bit of malicious instigation going on.

IMHO, stuff happens. I wouldn't demand the money back. I'd settle for half back until investigation is over and insurance payments are made.

We can all learn alot from this.

I've always had the habit of recording the unboxing which starts the moment I sign for a package.

Good luck to both buyer and seller.

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Old 15 June 2018, 02:28 AM   #93
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Hey all, just went to the UPS store to have the package weighed and it was indeed 2.15 lbs. Will upload a photo of the weight later but can confirm this is the case.
Again, just incredibly odd.

UPS would charge a completely different price for a 1lb15.5oz package as opposed to a 2lb2.4oz package.

So where we're currently at, if this is how the package arrived to you...... is that UPS shorted its own self postage costs and shipped a package in excess of 2lb for the 2lb price?



What all was inside the package to make up 2lb?
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:32 AM   #94
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These are the statements I don't get. Flip the script, you sell me a watch for $10k, I get the package and claim it's empty, but you know in your head 100% that you sent me the watch. You're telling me, you would just *immediately* refund me $10k out of pocket, that's that, perhaps I'm lying but who cares, and you'll figure it out on your end?


Right. A lot of you seem to be suggesting the seller do things, that you know good and well you wouldn't replicate yourself in the same situation.
If I was selling a watch/this expensive you better believe I would have some documented "proof"/video of the watch being packed in the box (with signed tape) and UPS or whoever is shipping it with signed Tape around the box so if it is indeed "tampered" "opened" with in transition then it would be obvious. Also I would get the insurance as a seller and bake this into the profit/loss of the transaction.

(Also lets be intellectually honest what percentage of packages sent through the mail are tampered with? .1%) So if you think the buyer is just trying to scam the seller (I think it is usually the other way around) then as the seller I would wait for a bit as I work on the insurance claim but keep the buyer in the loop.
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:34 AM   #95
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If I was selling a watch/this expensive you better believe I would have some documented "proof"/video of the watch being packed in the box (with signed tape) and UPS or whoever is shipping it with signed Tape around the box so if it is indeed "tampered" "opened" with in transition then it would be obvious. Also I would get the insurance as a seller and bake this into the profit/loss of the transaction.

(Also lets be intellectually honest what percentage of packages sent through the mail are tampered with? .1%) So if you think the buyer is just trying to scam the seller (I think it is usually the other way around) then as the seller I would wait for a bit as I work on the insurance claim but keep the buyer in the loop.


which is exactly what he's doing, yet in your previous post you tell the buyer to demand an immediate refund, or take action 'immediately'......thus not giving the seller any time whatsoever.

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Old 15 June 2018, 02:44 AM   #96
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which is exactly what he's doing, yet in your previous post you tell the buyer to demand an immediate refund, or take action 'immediately'......thus not giving the seller any time whatsoever.

My "instincts" in these transactions typically lean with the buyer, unless you have a strong reputation as a seller....
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:45 AM   #97
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:49 AM   #98
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This is exactly it. Larger sellers/stores buy insurance for themselves, it is not for you. Your money should be promptly refunded and the seller bears the risk of recovering funds via insurance. This is exactly how it works and anyone saying otherwise is mistaken.
This is a private individual. So just as I asked the other guy.....if this were you as a seller, just because the buyer claims the item was missing (and you know full well that you sent the watch in the package), you would 'immediately' refund the buyer a whopping $9000 and just try to sort out the problem? I don't think that's in any way fair, and one should give time for an investigation to occur.

I know some people consider this a 'whack' opinion and they'd never deal with me because of my opinion on the matter, but it's a pretty fair point.
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:50 AM   #99
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This is a private individual. So just as I asked the other guy.....if this way you, just because the buyer claims the item was missing, you would 'immediately' refund him?
Private individuals I guess falls into "it depends" - point taken.
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:50 AM   #100
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My "instincts" in these transactions typically lean with the buyer, unless you have a strong reputation as a seller....
And that's exactly why investigation has to be done without bias or assumption. "Instinct" is nothing more than bias on a 50/50 guess. It's not based on facts or evidence.
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Old 15 June 2018, 02:58 AM   #101
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And that's exactly why investigation has to be done without bias or assumption. "Instinct" is nothing more than bias on a 50/50 guess. It's not based on facts or evidence.
I just don't understand why this thread ever transpired past 'buyer and seller should await the UPS decision, then go from there'. Still confused as to why anybody would disagree with that, and demand this whole 'immediate refund without investigation' nonsense. I guess Paypal doesn't do investigations either in a situation like this, and 'immediately' refund the buyers money right?
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Old 15 June 2018, 03:01 AM   #102
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This is a private individual. So just as I asked the other guy.....if this were you as a seller, just because the buyer claims the item was missing (and you know full well that you sent the watch in the package), you would 'immediately' refund the buyer a whopping $9000 and just try to sort out the problem? I don't think that's in any way fair, and one should give time for an investigation to occur.

I know some people consider this a 'whack' opinion and they'd never deal with me because of my opinion on the matter, but it's a pretty fair point.
This. Process has to run its course. Still would like to know if the label was created by seller or the UPS office.
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Old 15 June 2018, 03:05 AM   #103
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Old 15 June 2018, 03:11 AM   #104
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I just don't understand why this thread ever transpired past 'buyer and seller should await the UPS decision, then go from there'. Still confused as to why anybody would disagree with that, and demand this whole 'immediate refund without investigation' nonsense. I guess Paypal doesn't do investigations either in a situation like this, and 'immediately' refund the buyers money right?
Agreed. Plus, it's far too easy for us as armchair investigators to spend others' money, guess fault and pick a winner. It's far more difficult to get reliable facts, both in inquiry and delivery. Trying to sort this out from afar is impossible. Advice is all that can be given with any reliability.

PayPal is a whole other beast entirely. I've avoided selling on eBay for years because of their new policies. Scams from buyers have increased dramatically as a result. False claims over damaged or missing items run rampant. No thanks.
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Old 15 June 2018, 03:11 AM   #105
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I my opinion, just an opinion, buyer is SOL.
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Old 15 June 2018, 03:12 AM   #106
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It’s certainly a mess.

This matter will likely hinge on the seller’s responsibilities per the marketplace rules and laws of the involved jurisdiction(s). Since it isn’t eBay nor Amazon then TRF rules apply.

My 2¢...
A long process is ahead and as insurance companies don’t automatically believe anyone, it can feel like eternity .

Woody Allen had a good quip about that - “Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.”

So hope both parties can remain calm and patient with each other (as I hope all of us will).

We all have opinions...


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Old 15 June 2018, 04:15 AM   #107
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Ugh, what a mess! Not the way watch buying should be.
Never package up a watch in front of UPS store/FedEx employees.
Pick up shipping materials, go back home and pack it up in PRIVACY.
Don't tell them what is in your package! It is none of their business.
Let's face it, folks that work at UPS store/FedEx hubs are not exactly high paid, I personally don't trust them no need to divulge to anyone you are shipping a high dollar item. I hope this situation is resolved soon! My2c.
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Old 15 June 2018, 04:21 AM   #108
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This is a private individual. So just as I asked the other guy.....if this were you as a seller, just because the buyer claims the item was missing (and you know full well that you sent the watch in the package), you would 'immediately' refund the buyer a whopping $9000 and just try to sort out the problem? I don't think that's in any way fair, and one should give time for an investigation to occur.

I know some people consider this a 'whack' opinion and they'd never deal with me because of my opinion on the matter, but it's a pretty fair point.
I want to get your opinion since you have a lot of experience as a buyer/seller...

What happen if you wire 9K for a watch to a BUYER, and you received a box with no watch.

1. What is the BUYER course of action?
2. Who should be dealing with UPS? BUYER or SELLER
3. Is BUYER out of 9K if SELLER insurance and UPS denied the claim?

Just wondering how I can protect myself as a buyer or seller with private transaction.

In this case, the seller gave UPS a watch box and allowed UPS to package it. Hmmm, did the seller make sure the watch was put inside the package? did UPS forgot to put it in? did UPS take the package after SELLER left and remove the watch?
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Old 15 June 2018, 04:46 AM   #109
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This is awful. So sorry to hear this helo008. I was scammed a few months ago. The seller does have some positive feedback but he scammed me.
I wouldn't completely trust the seller since his feedbacks are so few. Good luck.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:20 AM   #110
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I think its time for the seller to chime in regarding the weight that the buyer has claimed was measured.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:23 AM   #111
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STOLEN WATCHES RECOVERED; FEDEX EMPLOYEE ALLEGEDLY TRIED TO SELL THEM ON EBAY
Posted by The Argonaut | Mar 22, 2006 | News - Features, Santa Monica | 0 |

A 23-year-old Los Angeles man was arrested by Santa Monica police Tuesday, March 14th, after he allegedly stole two watches valued at $100,000 each belonging to actor Steven Seagal, police said.

Santa Monica police arrested Ronald Taylor, Jr., an employee of a Federal Express branch in Santa Monica, at 4:35 p.m. and booked him in Santa Monica Jail for grand theft, Lt. Frank Fabrega said.

His bail was set at $140,000.

Police said they recovered two 18-karat gold watches, allegedly at Taylor’s Los Angeles residence and returned the watches to their owner.

The theft of the two custom-made watches was first reported to Santa Monica police Monday, March 13th, by a woman who works for Seagal.

The woman told police that she went to a Federal Express branch Wednesday, March 8th, to ship the two watches to a watchmaker in Las Vegas. The watchmaker had planned to display the watches at a trade show and return them to the owner.

But the watchmaker called Seagal’s employee Thursday, March 9th, to report that he had not received the watches and asked if they had been sent.

The woman contacted Federal Express representatives, who said the watches had been shipped and should arrive the following day.

After receiving information that the watches had not arrived by Monday, March 13th, Seagal’s employee again contacted the watchmaker, who said he recognized one of the watches being sold on eBay, police said.

The watchmaker contacted the seller and asked if there were any additional watches for sale.

When the seller allegedly said he had another watch for sale, the watchmaker contacted Seagal’s employee, who then notified Santa Monica police, Fabrega said.

Police detectives determined that the suspect was a Federal Express employee in Santa Monica.

New member so i can't post a link to the article.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:26 AM   #112
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A few days ago a guy from Miami asked me to send him a PayPal invoice for a watch. This gave him my name and email info so he could send a fake PayPal email that was addressed to my name and email. The money wasn't in my PayPal, so I called the cops and gave a report. They didn't seem very interested.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:26 AM   #113
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https://imgur.com/a/2rZ0NbS

Here is the photo of the package being weighed on the UPS store scale. Address has been covered but that is the original box and shipping label. UPS has followed up with us and will be sending their local driver to come to investigate the package tomorrow.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:28 AM   #114
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I just took the time to read this whole thread... When the seller William21 said the package was 1lb 15.5oz at the UPS Store, that jumped off the page at me immediately. As somebody who ships alot of watches, I can tell you that figure is low. A SS ceramic sub or gmt in a small wave box with papers is almost exactly 2 pounds on its own. When you add the weight of the shipping box plus some padding & tape, you're easily talking at least 2 1/2 pounds (2lb 8oz).
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:31 AM   #115
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Sorry OP you are going through this. I hope it is resolved. Why is William21 the seller not chiming in? That is very suspicious to me.

This is why Rolex tell customers on their web site, "the only place to buy a Rolex is an AD."

Situation still sucks though. Lets all pray for a happy ending.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:32 AM   #116
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What all was inside the package to make up 2lb?
dmash, the package consisted of two pieces of bubble wrap, the OYSTER S paper sleeve, white crown-printed paper box, Green Rolex box, factory papers (service booklet and two booklets on the GMT II specifically), warranty card, extra link, polishing cloth, and a handwritten watch from seller thanking me for the transaction. Missing were the "pillow" the watch is strapped onto and the watch itself.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:49 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by helo008 View Post
https://imgur.com/a/2rZ0NbS

Here is the photo of the package being weighed on the UPS store scale. Address has been covered but that is the original box and shipping label. UPS has followed up with us and will be sending their local driver to come to investigate the package tomorrow.
Curious the return address is UPS Store and not sellers home address. Taken altogether things are looking very iffy for the seller. The weight discrepancy is the biggest red flag. It would be good to know how UPS Store in CA weighed package and why its precisely 2.00lbs as the label seems to have been generated in the store by UPS employee.
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:51 AM   #118
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Agreed. Plus, it's far too easy for us as armchair investigators to spend others' money, guess fault and pick a winner. It's far more difficult to get reliable facts, both in inquiry and delivery. Trying to sort this out from afar is impossible. Advice is all that can be given with any reliability.



PayPal is a whole other beast entirely. I've avoided selling on eBay for years because of their new policies. Scams from buyers have increased dramatically as a result. False claims over damaged or missing items run rampant. No thanks.


I have no dog in this but I can confirm from personal experience that buyers can and do scam sellers. I’ll no longer sell anything on eBay outside of the u.s. because I’ve been burned more than once on items a lot less valuable than a Rolex.

I am not accusing anyone here about anything. And I feel for both parties and hope things get resolved. Just raising a point from personal experience. It’s not always the seller that scams. Buyers scam too.

It seems to me as though each side is trying their best to reasonably work out a difficult situation. One hallmark of scammers is that they usually go silent once they’ve got the money or the merchandise they’ve stolen. And thats not the case here.


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Old 15 June 2018, 05:54 AM   #119
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Curious the return address is UPS Store and not sellers home address. Taken altogether things are looking very iffy for the seller. The weight discrepancy is the biggest red flag. It would be good to know how UPS Store in CA weighed package and why its precisely 2.00lbs as the label seems to have been generated in the store by UPS employee.
2.00 pounds is a round up, that is what they typically do. Not exact. For example, I am getting Boxing Gloves sent to my house tomorrow and the weight.....you guessed it 2.00 pounds...
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Old 15 June 2018, 05:58 AM   #120
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I just took the time to read this whole thread... When the seller William21 said the package was 1lb 15.5oz at the UPS Store, that jumped off the page at me immediately. As somebody who ships alot of watches, I can tell you that figure is low. A SS ceramic sub or gmt in a small wave box with papers is almost exactly 2 pounds on its own. When you add the weight of the shipping box plus some padding & tape, you're easily talking at least 2 1/2 pounds (2lb 8oz).
The watch itself is around 5.3 oz.
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