service or not?

[MERMOZ]

hello!
i am new here so indulge a brief introduction.
55 and from belgium. bought my first rolex (gmt master II pepsi) 28 years ago. i started collecting them some 15 years ago. now i have 10. i bought all my watches new and own exclusively “sport” models. in total, i have a good 25 “quality” watches ranging from panerai and breitling to zenith, frank muller and audemars piguet.
i do NOT consider myself as a specialist, just an enthusiast.
i have asked myself long time the question which follows and which i will try to formulate in my weird logic. please forgive if the question has come somewhere else in the forums…
unless the obvious when a watch has a piece damaged in the mechanism and it stops or has a crazy behaviour (it happened to me), to me the only reason to service a watch is to have the oil changed. “if all the metal is ok inside, why open a watch?” is my idea, if you wish.
contrary to a car engine, the oil inside a watch “only” lubricates the metal to minimize friction or better said to make forces in presence equalize with friction in order to give accuracy (in a car engine, the oil evacuates the heat and burns -> it degrades “quickly” and has to be changed, no option).
that in mind, i follow the reasoning: if friction is ok, then oil must be ok, meaning not dried out.
how do we know if friction is ok then?
just simply by measuring watch accuracy in time keeping (the measure itself has to be accurate!).
so, if a given watch moves by, say, 3 seconds per day or even variates from, again say, -5 to +5 seconds per day and never increases above, then the watch is steady accurate.
then the friction is ok.
then the oil is ok.
then there is no need for servicing.
please your thinking.
if there is a flaw in my reasoning, don’t shoot.
many thanks.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

I service watches daily. It's my job.

There is more happening with your watch than just an accurate display of time.

There can be problems that you are not aware of. Worn auto unit parts...while they won't cause a gain/loss in time can create a mess inside a watch. I've seen it plenty of times.

Depending on how the watch was treated, or how much it was worn, it can cause wear in other areas. Gaskets can dry out and/or leak. Pins can be literally worn completely through......outcome?....your watch falls to the ground.

As for your specific point. Friction is not the sole reason for accuracy to change.

Example....magnetism. Magnetism is very common today because of all the electronic devices people have. This first step I take when checking a mechanical watch is to check for magnetism. And a very large majority have it!

Magnetism most often causes the watch gain. In a lot of cases, it causes an extreme gain. I'm talking multiple minutes per day if not way more.

But, lets take a smaller gain. And then add a friction problem to that. Do you see where I'm going with this? You may still have a somewhat accurate movement, but it is "hiding" the friction problem.

I highly recommend at least a 3-5 year check up. At least have it looked at. gaskets checked. A pressure test.

Here is a movement out of a 16610 I just did this week.



The Weight Axle had an oiling problem. But, owner continued to wear because it was still keeping time. It wasn't until it has severely worn and finally had been stopping that he decided to take it in for service. The dried crusty oil gunk was EVERYWHERE inside this watch.

[MERMOZ]

thanks so much for your detailed answer. it certainly clarifies a lot to my perceptions…
i understand that a friction problem (read “oil in need of change”) can be hidden and the watch still keeps good time.
to go ahead with the interesting question, i still would like to say i feel it would be a very bad luck that a watch keeps good time and there is a fatal metal destruction inside.
let me be honest: my point is a financial point, like always. here in europe, servicing a rolex goes up from 1,000 usd and even more for a AP etc. if i have to spend that money on every one of my watches, say every second year like i know some people do, it would be quite a budget of anywhere around 10,000 usd per year.
especially when i am only wearing a particular watch 1/25th of the time. when 24/25th of the time, the watch sits in the safe in my bank, the mechanism does not rotate, there is no temperature variation. it’s just a piece of metal that can sleep for thousands of years without a change larger than at atomic scale, if you wish…
when you wisely advise to service a watch every 3-5 years, you are talking about a watch that is on the wrist either daily or a big portion of the year, aren’t you?
also, i do not believe easily that the damage to a watch that is taken out of a safe one month every two years without servicing for 15 years can be beyond repair.
my friend has had a pepsi for 40 years now, wearing almost daily. he doesn’t care. he told me he had the watch serviced once after maybe 30 years. nothing special was detected on the watch.
so my final equation remains (and i hope i don’t get placed on a bonfire for that):

watch sits a lot without moving + watch keeps positively good time = watch serviced once every 15 years

thanks a lot for your appreciated inputs

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

I service watches daily. It's my job.

There is more happening with your watch than just an accurate display of time.

There can be problems that you are not aware of. Worn auto unit parts...while they won't cause a gain/loss in time can create a mess inside a watch. I've seen it plenty of times.

Depending on how the watch was treated, or how much it was worn, it can cause wear in other areas. Gaskets can dry out and/or leak. Pins can be literally worn completely through......outcome?....your watch falls to the ground.

As for your specific point. Friction is not the sole reason for accuracy to change.

Example....magnetism. Magnetism is very common today because of all the electronic devices people have. This first step I take when checking a mechanical watch is to check for magnetism. And a very large majority have it!

Magnetism most often causes the watch gain. In a lot of cases, it causes an extreme gain. I'm talking multiple minutes per day if not way more.

But, lets take a smaller gain. And then add a friction problem to that. Do you see where I'm going with this? You may still have a somewhat accurate movement, but it is "hiding" the friction problem.

I highly recommend at least a 3-5 year check up. At least have it looked at. gaskets checked. A pressure test.

Here is a movement out of a 16610 I just did this week.



The Weight Axle had an oiling problem. But, owner continued to wear because it was still keeping time. It wasn't until it has severely worn and finally had been stopping that he decided to take it in for service. The dried crusty oil gunk was EVERYWHERE inside this watch.

Exactly as you said ,the dumbest saying among watch collectors the “ain t broke don t fix it”,i mean i do not get serviced my watches which are just sitting in the safe from family heirloom etc but all my watches on dty pressure tested annual and serviced in 5-7years intervals.

Your pic of the axle is very common my tech in the RSC mentioned to me that he thinks Rolex recommended oil for the axle isn t good enough it gets crystalized as you described my wife s Rolex had to be returned since it has a rotor noise like barking dog:-) the tech told me he gonna try to use fine synthetic grease instead of the oil .