Safe Deposit boxes aren't safe - NY Times article

[28mm]

Valuables are lost in safe deposit boxes with surprising frequency.

it never happens till it happens!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/b...box-theft.html

There are an estimated 25 million safe deposit boxes in America, and they operate in a legal gray zone within the highly regulated banking industry. There are no federal laws governing the boxes; no rules require banks to compensate customers if their property is stolen or destroyed.

[amphr1]

I know! Wellsfargo is only responsible for $500 if they make a mistake and lost the content of my safe!

[28mm]

Originally Posted by amphora001

I know! Wellsfargo is only responsible for $500 if they make a mistake and lost the content of my safe!

Chase simply said, 'we investigated and the video is inconclusive. You can file a police report and maybe your insurance will cover it"

[KathleenL]

It is really unwise to deposit cash through an ATM.

[28mm]

Originally Posted by KathleenL

It is really unwise to deposit cash through an ATM.

Thanks!

[Henrimontgomery]

Juste use a real bank. Never had any issue with my safes at mine and deposited thousands of k with the ATM to no issue. Just take the receipt when you deposit or cancel the transaction if the amount is wrong.

[amphr1]

Someone who understand tort law should explain to us why the bank won't be liable for the entire content of my safe. After all, their primary function is to keep thing safe. Isn't that "care, custody, and control" of my property? Just because the contract has this stupid line item about liability limit of $500, doesn't exclude them from doing the one thing the safe was tasked to do, no?

[28mm]

Over the next few decades, the bank — a squat brick building on a low-rise suburban street — changed hands many times. First National became First Union, which was sold to Wachovia, which was then bought by Wells Fargo. But its vault remained the same. A foot-thick steel door sheltered cabinets filled with hundreds of stacked metal boxes, each protected by two keys. The bank kept one; the customer held the other. Both were required to open a box.

In 1998, Mr. Poniz rented several additional boxes, and stored in them various items related to his work. He separated a batch of personal effects — photographs, coins he had inherited from his grandfather, dozens of watches — into a box labeled 105. Every time he opened it, he saw the glinting accumulation of his life’s work.

Then, on April 7, 2014, he lifted the thin metal lid. Box 105 was empty.

“I thought my heart would fail,” Mr. Poniz said. He paused in his retelling of the memory. At age 67, he has a strong Polish accent and speaks English carefully. He struggled to find the right words to describe the day he discovered his watches were missing. “I was devastated,” he said. “I was never like that in my life before. I had never known that one can have a feeling like that.”

[28mm]

Originally Posted by amphora001

Someone who understand tort law should explain to us why the bank won't be liable for the entire content of my safe. After all, their primary function is to keep thing safe. Isn't that "care, custody, and control" of my property? Just because the contract has this stupid line item about liability limit of $500, doesn't exclude them from doing the one thing the safe was tasked to do, no?

To look at it from the banks side, it's not worth it to be in the safe deposit business.

Just like a dry cleaner will only pay for x amount the cost of the dry cleaning in the event of it's loss or damage, the same is true for banks.

[amphr1]

Originally Posted by 28mm

To look at it from the banks side, it's not worth it to be in the safe deposit business.

Just like a dry cleaner will only pay for x amount the cost of the dry cleaning in the event of it's loss or damage, the same is true for banks.

So in this logic, If you send in a Daytona with street value of $37k to RSC and they mad an error and destroyed it because they thought it was fake. They'd only be liable for a few thousand dollars?

Also nobody said you have to offer safe deposit as a service. Just like the bank keeps my money safe, why shouldn't they keep my gold watch safe?

[28mm]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So in this logic, If you send in a Daytona with street value of $37k to RSC and they mad an error and destroyed it because they thought it was fake. They'd only be liable for a few thousand dollars?

Also nobody said you have to offer safe deposit as a service. Just like the bank keeps my money safe, why shouldn't they keep my gold watch safe?

I'm the wrong guy to play devil's advocate and defend the banks!

But there are two sides to the story. Have you read the link to the article in the Times? It's nuts.

Can't compare safe deposit boxes which are a legacy/throwback to different times to RSC losing a watch when watches are their. business. In fact what exactly are the limits of liability coverage from RSC. Is it limited? I bet there's a lot of small print.

It's an interesting situation which raises a lot of questions. Let's say I had a loss from the safe deposit box. Since I never told them or documented what was in the box, who's to say it was there other than me?

All I know is, if i had 10 million dollars of valuables like the subject in the story, I'd make sure I understood the liablilty in the event of it disappearing.

Yet I also understand the subjects feeling that to him it was like putting his valuables in 'Fort Knox".

The problem is safe deposit boxes were never really regulated. There's no watchdog agency. IN the case of your 37K example Daytona. How would a loss be proven if no one was responsible to check it in in the first place.

"Every year, a few hundred customers report to the authorities that valuable items — art, memorabilia, diamonds, jewelry, rare coins, stacks of cash — have disappeared from their safe deposit boxes. Sometimes the fault lies with the customer. People remove items and then forget having done so. Others allow children or spouses access to their boxes, and don’t realize that they have been removing things."

[mquarter]

I'd still put my valuables in my bank safe rather than store them at home. The risk is fairly remote. Better than having to go to the expense of buying a strong safe and paying for it to be installed. I don't have the space anyway.

[28mm]

Originally Posted by mquarter

I'd still put my valuables in my bank safe rather than store them at home. The risk is fairly remote. Better than having to go to the expense of buying a strong safe and paying for it to be installed. I don't have the space anyway.

I do both.

[mquarter]

Originally Posted by 28mm

I do both.

You must have decently-sized collection. And yeah diversification is the best risk mitigation.

[~JJ]

Why does this article keep getting posted. I’ve had great experiences using a SDB the last 15years, ymmv.

[28mm]

Originally Posted by ~JJ

Why does this article keep getting posted. I’ve had great experiences using a SDB the last 15years, ymmv.

I didn't know it had been posted.

Did you read it?

The point is 'everyone' has had great experiences as in no problem with their safe deposit box.

Until they didn't.

I posted it because it's interesting and so that people realize in the unlikely event their contents go missing they are basically SOL.

[Blansky]

The banks probably love these articles so people will move on from using them and they can close the things out. They are a nuisance.

Although banks and especially Swiss banks made a killing after the war when unclaimed boxes were cleaned out after nobody returned to claim their items.

One wonders if banks still are able to recoup the contents after someone dies and no heirs appear to pay for the box or claim the goods???

Wells Fargo is also a pretty corrupt company to begin with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_..._fraud_scandal

[walds11]

Originally Posted by 28mm

I didn't know it had been posted.

Did you read it?

The point is 'everyone' has had great experiences as in no problem with their safe deposit box.

Until they didn't.

I posted it because it's interesting and so that people realize in the unlikely event their contents go missing they are basically SOL.

Thank you for posting the article. Very informative.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Blansky

The banks probably love these articles so people will move on from using them and they can close the things out. They are a nuisance.

Although banks and especially Swiss banks made a killing after the war when unclaimed boxes were cleaned out after nobody returned to claim their items.

One wonders if banks still are able to recoup the contents after someone dies and no heirs appear to pay for the box or claim the goods???

Wells Fargo is also a pretty corrupt company to begin with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_..._fraud_scandal

I can't tell you (actually it has been 3) different safety deposit boxes I have had in three different branches of the same bank over the course of 4 years. The reason being that two of these branches have closed in this time frame.

This last branch has less than one tenth of the number of the safety deposit boxes of the first two and not all of the current branch safety deposit boxes are being used. The reason for closures of branches probably has more to do with direct deposit but the sizing down of safety deposit boxes may in part be for the same reason as not many people visit their local bank anymore.

In the long run this service may eventually become more and more like the dinosaur. It's a service but eventually if not enough ask for it will eventually become extinct.

Personally, I find comfort in having a safe storage for certain items offsite in case of not only theft but fire as well.


Walking across the street or driving can be risky. So it's just a matter of risk analysis and determining what things work best for you.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by dddrees

I can't tell you (actually it has been 3) different safety deposit boxes I have had in three different branches of the same bank over the course of 4 years. The reason being that two of these branches have closed in this time frame.

This last branch has less than one tenth of the number of the safety deposit boxes of the first two and not all of the current branch safety deposit boxes are being used. The reason for closures of branches probably has more to do with direct deposit but the sizing down of safety deposit boxes may in part be for the same reason as not many people visit their local bank anymore.

In the long run this service may eventually become more and more like the dinosaur. It's a service but eventually if not enough ask for it will eventually become extinct.

Personally, I find comfort in having a safe storage for certain items offsite in case of not only theft but fire as well.

I agree to some extent, but like you point out, branches close, banks amalgamate and policies change on a whim, so what was once the go to place to store valuables seems like they're disappearing and the bank is totally on board with it.

Not sure where to store stuff off-site (off-home) anymore though. After the fires in N California did so much damage to some homes including their safes, even that seems a bit iffy.

I guess we have to store it with family......ha ha ha ha ha.....

[Gab27]

For people with a lot of valuables and/or important heirlooms or original documents, a proper safe is IMHO one of the best investments one can make to help protect those items.

[28mm]

The take a way from all of this is sure, use a safe deposit box and or safe or whatever at home but have insurance in place in the event of a loss.

=====

"In a six-page report filed with the Highland Park Police, Mr. Poniz described the watches, coins, documents and other items that were gone. Using auction records and sales reports, he estimated that their combined value was more than $10 million. That would make it one of the largest safe-deposit-box losses in American history."

[superdog]

Never ever would I store off site. No chance. I trust no one and nothing.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I agree to some extent, but like you point out, branches close, banks amalgamate and policies change on a whim, so what was once the go to place to store valuables seems like they're disappearing and the bank is totally on board with it.

Not sure where to store stuff off-site (off-home) anymore though. After the fires in N California did so much damage to some homes including their safes, even that seems a bit iffy.

I guess we have to store it with family......ha ha ha ha ha.....

I may have to deal with snow from time to time but luckily for me (knock on wood) natural disasters to include large fires are extremely rare if not non-existent where I live.

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Interesting article. Thanks for posting.

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by superdog

Never ever would I store off site. No chance. I trust no one and nothing.

Period. Things/times change.

[Laszlo]

It’s low risk having valuables in a safe deposit box and those valuables would naturally be insured (if you’re diligent.) But if the $&#% ever hits the fan the US government can confiscate.

[28mm]

Interestingly and I forgot this until now, a few years ago I got a frantic call to come to the bank and take my things out of the safe deposit box.

Went down to the branch and a water pipe had broken over some of the boxes and water had poured in.

It was quite a crazy scene, none of my stored items were damaged but it was a reminder that anything can happen.

Imagine what was lost in safe deposit boxes at the WTC or in safes at the recent building collapse in FL or of course in the severe fires in the west!

Last week after reading a thread here about insurance, I called to make sure I had it straight as to what and how my valuables are covered in the event of a loss.

Imagine filing a claim for your valuables that are no longer in your safety deposit box?

While I believe they would be covered, I wouldn't bet my life on it!

"Hello, I want to file a claim..yes, all of my valuables are missing..Right, yes they were in a safety deposit box at my bank but they're gone. File a police report? what?"