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Old 27 September 2020, 05:08 AM   #1
kipa
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1952 Rolex Galleon Cloisonné Dial

Hello everyone, I inherited a 1952 Rolex Galleon Cloisonne' Dial .... it's beautiful. I was wondering if any of you would know the value?
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Old 27 September 2020, 05:52 AM   #2
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These can be extremely valuable, like possibly 7 figures valuable. Not in my wheelhouse, though. It would help if you could post photos. If it's legit, it needs to go into an auction.
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Old 27 September 2020, 06:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kipa View Post
Hello everyone, I inherited a 1952 Rolex Galleon Cloisonne' Dial .... it's beautiful. I was wondering if any of you would know the value?

Value depends on a lot of things provide detailed pics please


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Old 27 September 2020, 06:26 AM   #4
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Wow... here are some pics. Thank you so much for the feedback.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg D03F07A7-A5D2-4B34-87FD-38A02337900B.JPG (176.8 KB, 335 views)
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2020-09-26 at 4.20.31 PM.jpg (99.2 KB, 341 views)
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2020-09-26 at 4.20.22 PM.jpg (60.2 KB, 347 views)
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Old 27 September 2020, 06:30 AM   #5
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This is the front
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Old 27 September 2020, 06:48 AM   #6
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The colors don't look nearly as vivid as I've seen in these watches previously and the markers don't have the fancy faceted shapes.

In any case, if you really believe you have an authentic Rolex cloisonné dial, then you should get it authenticated by one of the top auction houses. Since you knew enough to call it a "Galleon", you've obviously used google enough to know what they sell for.



https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rIvftXdRI...l-Ref-6100.jpg

https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/...ex-lot-222-346\
http://theswissmonster.blogspot.com/...-bling_14.html
https://www.rolexmagazine.com/2011/0...1952-18kt.html
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:11 AM   #7
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The colors don't look nearly as vivid as I've seen in these watches previously and the markers don't have the fancy faceted shapes.

In any case, if you really believe you have an authentic Rolex cloisonné dial, then you should get it authenticated by one of the top auction houses. Since you knew enough to call it a "Galleon", you've obviously used google enough to know what they sell for.



https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rIvftXdRI...l-Ref-6100.jpg

https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/...ex-lot-222-346\
http://theswissmonster.blogspot.com/...-bling_14.html
https://www.rolexmagazine.com/2011/0...1952-18kt.html

these are one of the hardest dials in the world to make, let alone replicate. it's a dying art and I imagine anyone who could still make one would be able to market themselves much better as an artisan than forger. not to mention these pics are pretty poor to begin with.

looks like you have an amazing piece OP, the bracelet for it is wild as well. pics inside of the CB would be nice, this movement wasn't entered into production until 1960 IIRC. they would've been butterfly rotors prior to then
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:31 AM   #8
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Thank you, yes I did some googling but I am not an expert. I know it's original, and I am fairly sure my mom (it was hers) replaced the bracelet. She had an extensive collection of watches, which I have inherited. Trying to sort it all out is a challenge.
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:35 AM   #9
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Thank you, yes I did some googling but I am not an expert. I know it's original, and I am fairly sure my mom (it was hers) replaced the bracelet. She had an extensive collection of watches, which I have inherited. Trying to sort it all out is a challenge.
would it be possible to get any other pics of the bracelet? it's absolutely stunning! is there any makers mark on it? I would contact christies or sothebys for the sale and negotiate their sellers fee down as this is a very important watch, and any auction house would be lucky to catalog it in one of their sales.
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:37 AM   #10
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these are one of the hardest dials in the world to make, let alone replicate. it's a dying art and I imagine anyone who could still make one would be able to market themselves much better as an artisan than forger. not to mention these pics are pretty poor to begin with.
Well, with modern technologies, it seems that everything has become easy to replicate, but that's just a side point. My eye is picking out a lot of differences with respect to detail, color, and quality, even given the low-res and poorly lit photos. But I'm not picking a fight here, and I'm happy to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. I sincerely hope that the OP dial is of the same quality as the legit dial I showed, that would be really exciting. Maybe better photos will be forthcoming. Or perhaps Rolex Cloisonné dials came in various levels of quality, and it would be awesome to have a legit Rolex Cloisonné dial of any type.

Anyway, as I have mentioned a couple of times now, regardless of what we say, if this is even a 6-figure watch, it needs to be authenticated in person by an expert.
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:37 AM   #11
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Yes, I can, but not now: it's in a bank!
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:41 AM   #12
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Yes, I can, but not now: it's in a bank!
Since you are in NY, maybe you can take it to Philips or Sotheby's.
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:42 AM   #13
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Thank you, will do!
I'm not the best at taking pictures, that's for sure. I have been to the NYC store a few times (I normally wear a date just pearl master, or a a yacht master)..... I just figured I would inquire here before taking the trip with potentially a quite expensive watch.... :-)
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:46 AM   #14
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I really would love to see the bracelet as well.
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:48 AM   #15
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I'll get better pictures and post them.
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:49 AM   #16
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Well, with modern technologies, it seems that everything has become easy to replicate, but that's just a side point. My eye is picking out a lot of differences with respect to detail, color, and quality, even given the low-res and poorly lit photos. But I'm not picking a fight here, and I'm happy to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. I sincerely hope that the OP dial is of the same quality as the legit dial I showed, that would be really exciting. Maybe better photos will be forthcoming. Or perhaps Rolex Cloisonné dials came in various levels of quality, and it would be awesome to have a legit Rolex Cloisonné dial of any type.

Anyway, as I have mentioned a couple of times now, regardless of what we say, if this is even a 6-figure watch, it needs to be authenticated in person by an expert.

Cloisonne dials are 100% unique. there's going to be slight variations between them. they're usually done in very low numbers and like most vintage Rolex dials, these weren't made by Rolex themselves.

Once you familiarize yourself with the cloisonne process, you'd understand they aren't "easy to replicate" by any stretch of the imagination. there aren't any shortcuts in that one.

Patek World times with Cloisonne dials were carrying $100k premiums and multi year wait times before they were discontinued. they offer limited edition cloisonne calatravas every year that I can only imagine are 6 figures +. there are a handful of people in the world capable of making these in the world. it takes hundreds of hours to make each dial. it's an old world process.
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Old 27 September 2020, 07:52 AM   #17
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Cloisonne dials are 100% unique. there's going to be slight variations between them. they're usually done in very low numbers and like most vintage Rolex dials, these weren't made by Rolex themselves.

Once you familiarize yourself with the cloisonne process, you'd understand they aren't "easy to replicate" by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm familiar with the process. I can also use my eyes. And I can also imagine that there are various other processes that mimic Cloisonne. It's funny that from that one photo, you are so certain that it's legit. Either you're a savant, or very naive.

As I mentioned, best of luck to the OP, I hope that they and the watch are 100% legit.
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Old 27 September 2020, 08:03 AM   #18
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I didn't mean to ignite a fight! My mom's collections includes at least 10 Rolex, a few Cartier, a few Patek, a Breguet (that i can't seem to find an equal of online) and several others that I am still sorting out. Considering that my mom was a jeweler, I doubt she would have fakes. But you never know!
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Old 27 September 2020, 08:13 AM   #19
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I'm familiar with the process. I can also use my eyes. And I can also imagine that there are various other processes that mimic Cloisonne. It's funny that from that one photo, you are so certain that it's legit. Either you're a savant, or very naive.

As I mentioned, best of luck to the OP, I hope that they and the watch are 100% legit.
lol theres 2 known in existence, and 3 dials known to have been made. it's a missing link, maybe I am a bit excited because these watches have been dear to my heart for years, and I spent a large part of my late teens and early 20's collecting cloisonne. but I can't imagine anyone being able to fake this. and when compared with the other watches, I think it's poor lighting for the hour markers, the outlines appear to be the same, and if you look at certain marker points, they're almost identical, as well as the red sails, and the overall color fade is almost spot on. It's cloisonne, minor differences are going to be there, but once we get better pictures, I will just stack the pictures on top of each other and note the differences in the dial.

I have no doubt that it's a cloisonne dial, you can't fake that from the texture. not to mention the extremely rare hands, the custom bracelet to go along with it. it doesn't take a savant to realize this is the real deal.
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Old 27 September 2020, 08:20 AM   #20
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I didn't mean to ignite a fight!
I'm hoping it's legit. Considering that my mom was a jeweler and that her watch (and jewels) collection is extensive and includes several Rolexes, Patek, Cartier, Breguet (one that I have never seen regardless of all the googling), Piagiet and others, I am fairly optimistic. I know anyone could fool me, but that was my mom's expertise so I'm truly hoping they didn't fool her!
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Old 27 September 2020, 08:29 AM   #21
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I didn't mean to ignite a fight!
I'm hoping it's legit. Considering that my mom was a jeweler and that her watch (and jewels) collection is extensive and includes several Rolexes, Patek, Cartier, Breguet (one that I have never seen regardless of all the googling), Piagiet and others, I am fairly optimistic. I know anyone could fool me, but that was my mom's expertise so I'm truly hoping they didn't fool her!
looks like the only problem could be the movement being replaced at some point. would be interesting to know the SN with the last 3 digits XXXed out, and the model number.


sounds like your mother had great tastes, would love to see some of the others.
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Old 27 September 2020, 09:11 AM   #22
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lol theres 2 known in existence, and 3 dials known to have been made. it's a missing link,
It would be amazing if someone just popped onto the forum with something so rare.
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Old 27 September 2020, 09:18 AM   #23
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If I were going to make a list of watches to fake, this would be right at the bottom. Excited to see how this turns out. Keep us updated, OP.
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Old 27 September 2020, 01:08 PM   #24
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Thought I'd chime in here and let everyone know that this unfortunately is not one of the factory "Stern Freres" cloisonné dials that the market values in the high six figures. This is a knockoff made in the 90s- you can see the quality is quite poor compared to the originals. That being said, the movement is also much later than the dials. The originals were produced from 1949 until the mid 1950s, and it would have been impossible for an original to have a 15XX movt.
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Old 27 September 2020, 01:40 PM   #25
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Thought I'd chime in here and let everyone know that this unfortunately is not one of the factory "Stern Freres" cloisonné dials that the market values in the high six figures. This is a knockoff made in the 90s- you can see the quality is quite poor compared to the originals. That being said, the movement is also much later than the dials. The originals were produced from 1949 until the mid 1950s, and it would have been impossible for an original to have a 15XX movt.
Ah, that's a shame.

OP, Eric Ku (Fumanku) is one of the world's leading experts on vintage Rolex. There's your answer. Dan's horse sense was right.
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Old 27 September 2020, 02:17 PM   #26
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That's disappointing, but also not unexpected given how valuable these would be. I'd be interested to know what the serial number/reference is between the lugs, and whether it'd be worth making it original again.
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Old 27 September 2020, 09:38 PM   #27
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hmm, looks like crowes for dinner.

Sorry OP and Dan, appears I got a bit too excited.
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Old 27 September 2020, 11:12 PM   #28
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I would just say to the OP that they shouldn't be too disappointed. As @300ci mentioned, it would have been exciting, but the odds that their mother was sitting on an incredibly rare six-figure watch (without mentioning it) was pretty low. Even jewelers and top collectors may have watches sitting around for various reasons. For parts, as bullion, etc. That's why we generally take family histories with a grain of salt, since memories and stories can easily get distorted or misunderstood. Happens all the time on the forum. Fortunately, it sounds like they have a number of other heirloom pieces.
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Old 27 September 2020, 11:38 PM   #29
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Thank you all! I will still get it appraised. I need to do that any way with all the estate.
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Old 28 September 2020, 12:06 AM   #30
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Thought I'd chime in here and let everyone know that this unfortunately is not one of the factory "Stern Freres" cloisonné dials that the market values in the high six figures. This is a knockoff made in the 90s- you can see the quality is quite poor compared to the originals. That being said, the movement is also much later than the dials. The originals were produced from 1949 until the mid 1950s, and it would have been impossible for an original to have a 15XX movt.
Looks like it may be a converted 14k gold Oyster Perpetual. Maybe a model 1005
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