Patek Philippe 5712/1A mediocre purchase experience

[Toutoune]

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

Hate to say this and not to be mean...

Your father was a difficult customer plus he make a fool of himself.....

Your father should do his research & homework before asking his requests..... None of this would happen....

Thanks to him now, the new or beginning customer won't get a shot of the hottest models such as Nautilus or Aquanaut...

I bet boutique & AD don't want to deal with those crap again.....

Your father still a lucky man to get the 5712....

I don’t take it the bad way don’t worry. I wouldn’t be on a forum discussing this if I didn’t want people’s opinion.

As mentioned my Dad likes watches but he is not like me spending time online on forums, waiting for Basel or looking for the reference or details that makes it special. He goes on the website of a brand likes a watch and wants to buy it. End of the story. Nothing more. I agree with you it was a downside this time and maybe if I would have talked about it with him before nothing would have gone this way. But anyway I don’t think it was fair to him.

[dsk28]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Gentlemen,

I see both sides here. Yes, I agree with some that I would take a crappy experience for a chance at a 5712 at retail.

That said, you have to imagine what image we and Thierry Stern want PP to portray. While the laws of supply and demand exist, it is no excuse for this level of snobbery.

I agree with this.

[Toutoune]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

gentlemen,

i see both sides here. Yes, i agree with some that i would take a crappy experience for a chance at a 5712 at retail.

That said, you have to imagine what image we and thierry stern want pp to portray. While the laws of supply and demand exist, it is no excuse for this level of snobbery.

+1

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Toutoune

I can’t remember the reference of this one. I think it was 5144 but looking it up online it doesn’t show up so might be wrong. White gold, Arabic numerals, white dial, leather strap. That’s the only thing I can remember

I have never likes this one. To much of a dress watch for me I would guess.

I didn’t take your answer for a doubt of my veracity at all don’t worry. I am just piece by piece adding to the story to try and explain myself better.

I did not mention it in the post because for me it has no link. I understand that it changes your point of view on the experience that’s why I answered to you but it should not change the S.A. attitude towards him.

Cool, the 5124 w/ salmon dial is my favourite, pure class.

I guess you just have to put it down to experience, and move on.

https://www.luxurybazaar.com/gondolo-5124g-001

[watchfan0529]

Sad story for both sides imho, the market has caused both salons and clients to get frustrated.

I can understand OP's dad wanting a great experience since not everybody buys luxury watches on a frequent basis, especially a Patek at this price (some may laugh at this now, but when i was looking for a 5712 a little over 2 years ago, they were selling well below the rrp of 29,000 chf!). Meanwhile the salon is skeptical with the client wanting to keep all the things related to the watch because of all the flippers in the market who flip even on the same day for a quick arbitrage.

Overall this is the reality with buying Rolex/Patek/AP steel watches at the moment, and it leaves a bitter experience to many. Given the circumstances, it's reasonable to just have lowered expectations. I love Rolex watches, but I dread the buying experience from the Rolex boutique in Geneva (and I am talking about Rolex's one and only fully owned shop in the world!), they are mediocre with customer service at best!

[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by Toutoune

I don’t take it the bad way don’t worry. I wouldn’t be on a forum discussing this if I didn’t want people’s opinion.

As mentioned my Dad likes watches but he is not like me spending time online on forums, waiting for Basel or looking for the reference or details that makes it special. He goes on the website of a brand likes a watch and wants to buy it. End of the story. Nothing more. I agree with you it was a downside this time and maybe if I would have talked about it with him before nothing would have gone this way. But anyway I don’t think it was fair to him.

Gad you didn't take it offense.....

One thing you got to understand boutique & AD have been dealing with a lot of unknowledge new or beginning customer everyday, who want the hottest watch on the planet such as Nautilus or Aquanaut and don't even bother to took the time to study the history of the brand or how the progress of buying the popular models......

I see your point of view and I see the boutique point of view....

Maybe both start off on the wrong foot or one of those bad day for both.....

Nevertheless, please tell your father to enjoy the watch and forget about the bad experience.....

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

Gad you didn't take it offense.....

One thing you got to understand boutique & AD have been dealing with a lot of unknowledge new or beginning customer everyday, who want the hottest watch on the planet such as Nautilus or Aquanaut and don't even bother to took the time to study the history of the brand or how the progress of buying the popular models......

I see your point of view and I see the boutique point of view....

Maybe both start off on the wrong foot or one of those bad day for both.....

Nevertheless, please tell your father to enjoy the watch and forget about the bad experience.....

Im surprised im the only one who does feel like the Paris Salon is a bit cold vs the rest to begin with. Ive always felt weird in there vs London or Geneva. Im not french and the OP appears to be so maybe its just them and not me as i always chalked it up to being a non french customer speaking in english.

[starship33]

Got two SS pieces at the Paris Salons (and one was a 5712/1A) and customer experience was great both times. Staff is really good there (but the best of the best is in Geneva, I must admit). Weird and unfortunate that this experience didn’t went well.

[kultschar]

Must say the London Salon treated me like I was buying a Grand Complication when in reality they were adjusting a rubber Aquanaut strap for a 5167 that I had bought elsewhere. Very nice service

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by kultschar

Must say the London Salon treated me like I was buying a Grand Complication when in reality they were adjusting a rubber Aquanaut strap for a 5167 that I had bought elsewhere. Very nice service

i really like it in there and i have never purchased anything minus straps/ 1.5 nautilus links. I always try on stuff while i wait and they know im just killing time.

[watchbowl]

Originally Posted by Audguy

I’d be happy if they punched me in the face if I was getting one at rrp

I’d take two punches!


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[AK797]

You said it was a mediocre experience and that sounds about right, can't expect great treatment now when things are so skewed in an AD's favour, the power change dynamic is too much for weak minds to resist.

[CamSLC]

Shame he didn't have a good experience. The SA didn't really need to remind him multiple times how "lucky" he is, albeit fortunate to get one in this environment. Glad it's in a WIS home! Enjoy

[karasus]

Originally Posted by watchfan0529

Sad story for both sides imho, the market has caused both salons and clients to get frustrated.

I can understand OP's dad wanting a great experience since not everybody buys luxury watches on a frequent basis, especially a Patek at this price (some may laugh at this now, but when i was looking for a 5712 a little over 2 years ago, they were selling well below the rrp of 29,000 chf!). Meanwhile the salon is skeptical with the client wanting to keep all the things related to the watch because of all the flippers in the market who flip even on the same day for a quick arbitrage.

Overall this is the reality with buying Rolex/Patek/AP steel watches at the moment, and it leaves a bitter experience to many. Given the circumstances, it's reasonable to just have lowered expectations. I love Rolex watches, but I dread the buying experience from the Rolex boutique in Geneva (and I am talking about Rolex's one and only fully owned shop in the world!), they are mediocre with customer service at best!

That rolex boutique is a joke and filled with a**h*les who treat any human walking in like garbage.

Walked in, asked if it was possible to try either a submariner or a seadweller since I was planning on taking the watch for diving next summer. The sales person said something along the lines:"Why would you want to do that? Here we have some precious metal daydates with diamonds or platinum yachtmasters"

I politely told them sorry but I would like a no date submariner preferably to go do watersports since its the most reliable option and I don't think the daydate would fit what I plan to do. Her reaction was just to laugh at me, and say:"nobody dives with a submariner thats not what they are for".

Kinda put me off Rolex completely, I mean wtf why buy a "tough" Rolex sports watch if Rolex sales people don't think that they will be used in the way they were built for?

[bankreal]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Im surprised im the only one who does feel like the Paris Salon is a bit cold vs the rest to begin with. Ive always felt weird in there vs London or Geneva. Im not french and the OP appears to be so maybe its just them and not me as i always chalked it up to being a non french customer speaking in english.

Actually you are not the only to feel that way about the Paris Salon. Staff at the Geneva and London salons are most friendly, taking much time to show me pieces including exotic ones without any suggestion that they want to sell any products. I've been to the Paris Salon several times, the last being a few years back when a male staff brought out some regular production as per my requests, along with other pieces such as the 5270G blue dial with chin (which likely had been sitting there for some time) & which I didn't request. The conversation started with "5320...there's a long waiting list...(I was only asking to see the piece, and my Hong Kong dealer had already reserved one for me at that time), and the rest were insincere and somewhat arrogant attempts to sell me the 5270G...

Incidentally, another customer indicated his interest to another male staff in "this one with a map in the dial" as he pointed at a 5131 in the catalogue. It was clear the customer was new to the brand. The rest of the comments by the staff was impatient, sarcastic and arrogant.

The difference in the quality of service between the Paris and the other 2 salons is obvious, and not isolated to the above 2 incidents. Staff in the former often are insincere and some merely wants to sell, those in the latter two salons are sincere and willing to discuss the brand and its products without attempt to try to sell customers products that are not in high demand.

[slomosen]

OP... I'd like to tell you that the "experience" is not in the purchase of the watch but rather, in the ownership of it. May you and your father wear it with smiles on your faces.

[metdrdg]

Sorry he was disappointed by the experience, but agree with the others to get a 5712 today is already difficult to say the least. I was surprised he would never consider buying it if it had been presented to someone else or tried on by someone else. Treat others and you would have done unto you. If he’s ever tried on a watch at a dealer and not purchased it, then he’s a hippocrite.

[sensui]

Expectations... checked.

[soundserious]

To the OP: my thoughts are with you and your family during this difficult time. I didn’t bother to read the long initial post but based on the thread subject I assume it’s the usual inane and ultimately meaningless nonsense that is usually complained about. Chin up.

[Donjo]

Sorry to hear it didn't go as anticipated, but glad he got this grail. I hope you two enjoy it.

[ttomczak]

Originally Posted by AK797

You said it was a mediocre experience and that sounds about right, can't expect great treatment now when things are so skewed in an AD's favour, the power change dynamic is too much for weak minds to resist.

I so totally disagree with this...

I was lucky enough to get my 5167 in October from the only AD (two stores) in NC. I bought it after directly working with the manager of one of the stores, he was gracious, it was a wonderful experience, they had built a room dedicated to PP and he took me in there and showed me some amazing pieces. Even to the point of trying some of them on.

He also gave me a beautiful hardcover book about PP... A few weeks later, I asked if I could buy the single watch travel case, instead he just sent me one overnight. Really? How awesome was that.

They have a customer for life, and I am already planning the next one...

FWIW, this was Windsor Jewlers in Winston Salem NC.

As an aside note, my local Rolex AD is just as nice to work with...

To the OP, I’m glad your father got his watch, I hope he is enjoying it!!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by ttomczak

I so totally disagree with this...

I was lucky enough to get my 5167 in October from the only AD (two stores) in NC. I bought it after directly working with the manager of one of the stores, he was gracious, it was a wonderful experience, they had built a room dedicated to PP and he took me in there and showed me some amazing pieces. Even to the point of trying some of them on.

He also gave me a beautiful hardcover book about PP... A few weeks later, I asked if I could buy the single watch travel case, instead he just sent me one overnight. Really? How awesome was that.

They have a customer for life, and I am already planning the next one...

FWIW, this was Windsor Jewlers in Winston Salem NC.

As an aside note, my local Rolex AD is just as nice to work with...

To the OP, I’m glad your father got his watch, I hope he is enjoying it!!

Hope but don't expect. Market has changed. No point pretending everyday in a PP AD is the first day of spring any more.

[ap1]

I get it, for 40k a smile would be nice. Wasn’t meant to be, but you got a super nice watch. Move on.

[jon_jon]

Interesting discussion about the Salon experience. To me, what it comes down to is a mismatch of the expectations and the actual experience. This is usually the most common reason for someone being unhappy, upset, etc about a sales experience.

My personal experiences at the Paris Salon have been mixed and I have visited the Paris Salon about 4-5 times over the past ~ 8 years. But I attribute most of that to the language barrier and cultural differences. I also experienced some coldness or aloofness, but I just attributed it to Parisians having a reputation for being this way (whether it is true or not). You can't expect a non-native English speaker who is used to the French way of doing business to behave the same way as you would expect someone working in the watch business in your own country.

However as OP states, he and his father are "French" living abroad. My question is, why didn't OP's father try to communicate with the SA over the phone in French? It is always more difficult to communicate via email. I understand that time difference can make it hard at times to make that phone call. But if email correspondence was not going well, the best next step is to pick up the phone.

It is too bad OP and OP's father had a mediocre experience. But we have only heard one side of the story. What is missing is the Salon's story. Perhaps they have a totally different perspective and would say that OP and OP's father's speech and behavior were unacceptable for the Paris Salon. This is just speculation as there is always two sides of the story.

The bottom line is that he received the watch and hopefully he will leave the experience behind and enjoy the watch. Through the years, we all have good, bad and mediocre experiences at watch stores and it is just a fact of life.

[Toutoune]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Interesting discussion about the Salon experience. To me, what it comes down to is a mismatch of the expectations and the actual experience. This is usually the most common reason for someone being unhappy, upset, etc about a sales experience.

My personal experiences at the Paris Salon have been mixed and I have visited the Paris Salon about 4-5 times over the past ~ 8 years. But I attribute most of that to the language barrier and cultural differences. I also experienced some coldness or aloofness, but I just attributed it to Parisians having a reputation for being this way (whether it is true or not). You can't expect a non-native English speaker who is used to the French way of doing business to behave the same way as you would expect someone working in the watch business in your own country.

However as OP states, he and his father are "French" living abroad. My question is, why didn't OP's father try to communicate with the SA over the phone in French? It is always more difficult to communicate via email. I understand that time difference can make it hard at times to make that phone call. But if email correspondence was not going well, the best next step is to pick up the phone.

It is too bad OP and OP's father had a mediocre experience. But we have only heard one side of the story. What is missing is the Salon's story. Perhaps they have a totally different perspective and would say that OP and OP's father's speech and behavior were unacceptable for the Paris Salon. This is just speculation as there is always two sides of the story.

The bottom line is that he received the watch and hopefully he will leave the experience behind and enjoy the watch. Through the years, we all have good, bad and mediocre experiences at watch stores and it is just a fact of life.

Long story short about that. I didn’t want to talk about it in my already long text about all of this but that’s also part of the story I would guess. It’s also kind of weird and I didn’t want to add it to the discussion otherwise people would have thought I exaggerated I guess!

Those are not the actual terms of the discussion I just make it short to give you the main lines

S.A. calls Dad and end up leaving a message: “Your watch is here come and pick it up”

Dad calls him back I guess the day after or something like this: “Hello it is Mr... I am calling you for the 5712”

Straight away the S.A. tells him “Ah Mr...good to hear from you. Listen you are still in the waiting list delivery of your watch has been pushed a bit and we can aim for March 2019”

Dad to S.A.: “‘eeeeeeeeh you left me a message telling me my watch was here that’s the reason for my call”

S.A.: “Are you sure? I don’t remember calling you. Are you sure it is me?”

Dad: “Yeah yeah I am sure you stated your name at the end of the message plus it’s the store number”

S.A.: “Ok then if you say so. Let me check on my side and I will call you back”

No news from him for nearly a week if I remember well. My Dad then started calling nearly everyday to get some news. S.A. was always in break or not here or on his day off. He eventually called back and said yeah your watch is here. You know the rest of the story.

I guess all of this wasted time leaving messages to other S.A. and aiming to call at the right time PLUS the time difference (as you mentioned) and my Dad’s job made it difficult to continue by phone and email became easier (I guess).

You know with this part of the story (the “are you sure I called you??”) we started to think the S.A. called my Dad by mistake on the list. And that he had to come up with a plan B before calling back. Giving an explanation of why he wasn’t giving him news and why he didn’t look so happy to sell it to my Dad. This is pure speculation from our side but the way it went seems a bit weird so...

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Toutoune

Long story short about that. I didn’t want to talk about it in my already long text about all of this but that’s also part of the story I would guess. It’s also kind of weird and I didn’t want to add it to the discussion otherwise people would have thought I exaggerated I guess!

Those are not the actual terms of the discussion I just make it short to give you the main lines

S.A. calls Dad and end up leaving a message: “Your watch is here come and pick it up”

Dad calls him back I guess the day after or something like this: “Hello it is Mr... I am calling you for the 5712”

Straight away the S.A. tells him “Ah Mr...good to hear from you. Listen you are still in the waiting list delivery of your watch has been pushed a bit and we can aim for March 2019”

Dad to S.A.: “‘eeeeeeeeh you left me a message telling me my watch was here that’s the reason for my call”

S.A.: “Are you sure? I don’t remember calling you. Are you sure it is me?”

Dad: “Yeah yeah I am sure you stated your name at the end of the message plus it’s the store number”

S.A.: “Ok then if you say so. Let me check on my side and I will call you back”

No news from him for nearly a week if I remember well. My Dad then started calling nearly everyday to get some news. S.A. was always in break or not here or on his day off. He eventually called back and said yeah your watch is here. You know the rest of the story.

I guess all of this wasted time leaving messages to other S.A. and aiming to call at the right time PLUS the time difference (as you mentioned) and my Dad’s job made it difficult to continue by phone and email became easier (I guess).

You know with this part of the story (the “are you sure I called you??”) we started to think the S.A. called my Dad by mistake on the list. And that he had to come up with a plan B before calling back. Giving an explanation of why he wasn’t giving him news and why he didn’t look so happy to sell it to my Dad. This is pure speculation from our side but the way it went seems a bit weird so...

well that would make me mad. It seems they tried to bump you at the last minute. My guess is some VIP was to get that watch and was jumping ahead, and they had already called you and were trying to figure out what to do.

[pam66]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Im surprised im the only one who does feel like the Paris Salon is a bit cold vs the rest to begin with. Ive always felt weird in there vs London or Geneva. Im not french and the OP appears to be so maybe its just them and not me as i always chalked it up to being a non french customer speaking in english.

i have been in the paris salon many times (20-30) and the experience was great in 50% of the cases and (less than) mediocre in the remaining 50%. it really depends who takes care of you.
in the london salon (also 20-30 visits) may experience was mainly very good.

[Vaxe]

I would’ve brought a gift to the salesperson for going out of his way and against protocol. It’s a sellers market for the 5712. Would be happy with simply getting watch, the whole AD experience is overblown, though in OP’s case I agree the boutique should’ve provided more hospitality. Maybe just a busy day.

[Codik]

I have been to the London salon twice, and had a below mediocre experience both times.

Basically, I felt like the staff did not want to be there, much less to help me.

I have to agree with OP. If I am buying a luxury good, I expect a luxury shopping experience. No exceptions.

[soundserious]

Originally Posted by Codik

I have been to the London salon twice, and had a below mediocre experience both times.

Basically, I felt like the staff did not want to be there, much less to help me.

I have to agree with OP. If I am buying a luxury good, I expect a luxury shopping experience. No exceptions.

Then try a different brand? Vote with your feet and walk across the street to the Vacheron or Lange boutique and I guarantee you will be treated like royalty.