Price increase?

[psm11]

Originally Posted by messikens

100% agree!

Like I said a few posts above, it "easier" to justify if the secondary demand and potential increase is high. But once prices drop below MSRP (see my chase for a 26420), it becomes hard to justify... Visit boutique and say hi to be able to purchase something for full MSRP and tax OR potentially get immediately at $3k lower than MSRP and no tax, now you're talking paying AP an opportunity cost of $8k plus wait times...

Totally! Right now there are only one or two APs I want (a ROC [do not care if it a 50th model] and a ROO). Maybe one day that will change and I will move on to wanting QPs and other harder to get pieces that would make suffering through the process of building the relationship worth it. But then again, WTF kind of relationship is it when it is such a negative experience for a lot of clients who aren't able to/willing to buy models they don't want? I want to journey to owning my first AP and spending tens of thousands of dollars to be enjoyable and that has not been my experience as of late with my SA. It seems like a no brainer to pay less than or about MSRP and have your watch today and avoid all the BS.


As an aside, I found it interesting in a recent interview with the outgoing CEO the explicit mention of making sure that when one buys an AP they do not lose 50% of the value the second they walk out the door, which he said was still the case even 5 years ago. I totally get and respect that and it gives me some hope that they aren't really looking for their watches to be worth 3-4x MSRP but instead have it so the watch doesn't lose value or appreciates slightly for really rare pieces.

[thecrownprince]

Originally Posted by psm11

Totally! Right now there are only one or two APs I want (a ROC [do not care if it a 50th model] and a ROO). Maybe one day that will change and I will move on to wanting QPs and other harder to get pieces that would make suffering through the process of building the relationship worth it. But then again, WTF kind of relationship is it when it is such a negative experience for a lot of clients who aren't able to/willing to buy models they don't want? I want to journey to owning my first AP and spending tens of thousands of dollars to be enjoyable and that has not been my experience as of late with my SA. It seems like a no brainer to pay less than or about MSRP and have your watch today and avoid all the BS.


As an aside, I found it interesting in a recent interview with the outgoing CEO the explicit mention of making sure that when one buys an AP they do not lose 50% of the value the second they walk out the door, which he said was still the case even 5 years ago. I totally get and respect that and it gives me some hope that they aren't really looking for their watches to be worth 3-4x MSRP but instead have it so the watch doesn't lose value or appreciates slightly for really rare pieces.

Interesting note re: what FB said. I’m a VIP client at Lamborghini and had a chance to sit down with the CEO for about 40 mins at one of the track day events. He mentioned the same approach for Lamborghini - they want to keep the production always below demand - customers who get a chance to order and wait for the car if will get a rare car. He wants every car to leave the dealership not losing thousands of dollar but gain value instead.

Like watches, you have to establish a relationship with your dealer. The first car is always the hardest to get allocated.

Like AP. Most lambos that are delivered today already gained $30k-$120k in value (todays market value) - before the crash those numbers were $60-250k.

With AP the first watch is the hardest but once you get over that obstacle it’s much smoother. There is still a wait but having a good relationship with your BT it can make that wait 3 months instead of 3 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[thekman]

Speaking of QPs I see that EWC has 3 discontinued RO QPs ranging between 126k and 138k. I suspect we will see further reductions as they have had them for a while and keep coming down on the prices. With the significant new QP price increase the delta between grey and retail has really substantially decreased. It feels like a few months ago the delta was more like 80k retail and 200+ for any grey market QP. While I am not in a position to buy either right now I think any further decrease in grey market prices will make chasing this piece at retail unappealing.

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by thekman

Speaking of QPs I see that EWC has 3 discontinued RO QPs ranging between 126k and 138k. I suspect we will see further reductions as they have had them for a while and keep coming down on the prices. With the significant new QP price increase the delta between grey and retail has really substantially decreased. It feels like a few months ago the delta was more like 80k retail and 200+ for any grey market QP. While I am not in a position to buy either right now I think any further decrease in grey market prices will make chasing this piece at retail unappealing.

That likely is influenced by the individual and how many of these "grail" watches they would like to purchase. For someone looking at either a QP or Tourbillion for instance, it may still make sense (if they could get one) to buy from the boutique. However, if you someone that wants both, but can only get one or the other from the boutique...I agree it may make more sense to go grey for the QP.

[DonLee]

Originally Posted by thecrownprince

Interesting note re: what FB said. I’m a VIP client at Lamborghini and had a chance to sit down with the CEO for about 40 mins at one of the track day events. He mentioned the same approach for Lamborghini - they want to keep the production always below demand - customers who get a chance to order and wait for the car if will get a rare car. He wants every car to leave the dealership not losing thousands of dollar but gain value instead.

Like watches, you have to establish a relationship with your dealer. The first car is always the hardest to get allocated.

Like AP. Most lambos that are delivered today already gained $30k-$120k in value (todays market value) - before the crash those numbers were $60-250k.

With AP the first watch is the hardest but once you get over that obstacle it’s much smoother. There is still a wait but having a good relationship with your BT it can make that wait 3 months instead of 3 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ferrari has followed Rolex's model for years. If you want an Enzo, or a Laferrari, you need to buy a lot of other Ferraris that you might not want, all of which will depreciate in value.

Lambos will all depreciate in value. The only reason why prices have stayed high is because of chip shortages. rebadged Audi Q8's aren't special hypercars that would hold value. They will eventually be worthless, just like large Bentley's, very much unlike AP, PP and Rolex watches.

[Mini2]

With how the pound is performing and expected to get worst I would guess another price rise will be imminent within the UK imo

[aldyrifqi]

Feb price will increase again

[psm11]

Originally Posted by aldyrifqi

Feb price will increase again

Really?? Each week APs are getting closer and closer to MSRP on the secondary market (last week I saw a slightly used 2022 43mm Stainless Steel ROO for $36k). Tons of APs have been sitting on grey sites for months and not moving (despite multiple price decreases).

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by psm11

Really?? Each week APs are getting closer and closer to MSRP on the secondary market (last week I saw a slightly used 2022 43mm Stainless Steel ROO for $36k). Tons of APs have been sitting on grey sites for months and not moving (despite multiple price decreases).

Well, they are not (yet) sitting in the AP boutiques at MSRP. I'd prefer if AP took it easy with the twice-annual price increases, but am not holding my breath.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Well, they are not (yet) sitting in the AP boutiques at MSRP. I'd prefer if AP took it easy with the twice-annual price increases, but am not holding my breath.

Are such twice a year increases a standard at Patek or any other brands (eg RM) as well? It really is aggressive, but I figure there must be a justification of some sort…although the business driver isn’t clear to me. It can’t simply be corporate greed, since I wouldn’t expect a brand to threaten their relationship with buyers, even those who can afford any x% increase without issue. Perhaps AP leadership has previously commented on this issue in past.

[thekman]

I guess as long as AP keeps dangling ROs they may be able to sell ROOs and Codes but agree that the price difference between MSRP and grey market is increasing every day on the ROOs and Codes. As I mentioned on another thread a Code QP is sitting unsold on Moda for 75k meanwhile AP just increased the price to 100k. And that is on the Code even most Code haters say they like.

[dchang81]

QP code is awesome, if it keeps dropping that'd be a nice pickup

[Palex]

What about the code qp 26394BC? The white gold? I like that very much, seems there are only few. Would that also go down? Would it be eassier to get allocated, now prices drop?

[psm11]

Originally Posted by thekman

I guess as long as AP keeps dangling ROs they may be able to sell ROOs and Codes but agree that the price difference between MSRP and grey market is increasing every day on the ROOs and Codes. As I mentioned on another thread a Code QP is sitting unsold on Moda for 75k meanwhile AP just increased the price to 100k. And that is on the Code even most Code haters say they like.

Stainless 2022 43 mm ROO was on takuyas website last week for $36k. CODES and ROOs are now under retail.

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by psm11

Stainless 2022 43 mm ROO was on takuyas website last week for $36k. CODES and ROOs are now under retail.

I don't think we are there just yet....but grey prices below MSRP on CODE's and ROO's will likely present an opportunity in the next 12 months (if that is a watch you are interested in) to show support for the brand by buying it at the boutique.

Obviously, you have to be ok with putting an extra $10K or whatever into the relationship, but if your goals are to own a Jumbo or one of the special 41mm ROs...I would view the economic turmoil and dropping prices as an opportunity.

[thekman]

Originally Posted by dchang81

QP code is awesome, if it keeps dropping that'd be a nice pickup

Agreed that it would be great pick up on the secondary market but I wonder if buying it there will hurt the relationship with AP.

[psm11]

Originally Posted by thekman

Agreed that it would be great pick up on the secondary market but I wonder if buying it there will hurt the relationship with AP.

This is something that really annoys me. I get AP being pissed if you went to grey market to save some money but if you are going so you can get the piece in a reasonable amount of time instead of waiting around wondering if you will ever be allocated one I don't see that being wrong. I am getting married next year and want a Royal Oak for my wedding. I am working with my SA to try to make that happen but (as many of us know) they are always quick to remind me that they can't guarantee anything. As a result, I check the grey market everyday and you can bet your ass that once 15500s or 26331s drop to a certain range I will be buying if my SA hasn't come through. If that sours things, so be it. Folks can only play the game so long and if the SA isn't coming through (I.e., its a one sided relationship) why continue to waste your time.

[APWhale]

Originally Posted by thekman

Agreed that it would be great pick up on the secondary market but I wonder if buying it there will hurt the relationship with AP.

Originally Posted by psm11

This is something that really annoys me. I get AP being pissed if you went to grey market to save some money but if you are going so you can get the piece in a reasonable amount of time instead of waiting around wondering if you will ever be allocated one I don't see that being wrong. I am getting married next year and want a Royal Oak for my wedding. I am working with my SA to try to make that happen but (as many of us know) they are always quick to remind me that they can't guarantee anything. As a result, I check the grey market everyday and you can bet your ass that once 15500s or 26331s drop to a certain range I will be buying if my SA hasn't come through. If that sours things, so be it. Folks can only play the game so long and if the SA isn't coming through (I.e., its a one sided relationship) why continue to waste your time.

Agreed. I think if they were widely available then it could be a bad look to go grey for a discount, but in this case a QP Code even if trading at a discount is probably not widely available simply due to low production levels.