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Old 23 September 2021, 03:41 PM   #91
Ichiran
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Originally Posted by swish77 View Post
Here's my main take on this debate:

Rolex rules the watch market with classic but somewhat conservative (aka sometimes boring) watches that are built like tanks. They're very special, for whatever reason, and they have an unmatched history and marketing machine, coupled with a buying frenzy created by genius supply-demand shenanigans.

Grand Seiko has the best dials AND cases in the watch industry. Yes, I said it. The quality, finish and design are insane, arguably "better" than Rolex. They're the most interesting, innovative and funky, with super-cool Japanese aesthetics that reference lakes, mountains, cherry blossoms, etc ... No other brand does this. Many of the watches are stunningly beautiful, a description I'd never give to Rolex, which makes solid handsome watches, but that's it.

GS movements are also more special and interesting. And can we stop equating Spring Drives with quartz movements? They're completely different. For starters, there is no battery in an SD.

The GS bracelets could/should be better, but I'm someone who considers bracelets almost like tires on a car. I swap them out a lot, and I love straps, so that issue is really a non-issue for me.

Lastly, unless someone dislikes how virtually ALL watch companies brand their timepieces, stop picking on Grand Seiko. For example, I've never heard anyone complain about Audemars Piguet, and they do the exact same thing on their dials, with the "AP" logo atop "Audemars Piguet."

P.S. All Grand Seikos in the U.S. can be serviced by the dedicated GS service center in New Jersey. They do not need to be sent back to Japan.

Many things can be said about GS watches, and some guys just don't like them for whatever reason, but you cannot say their styling is "unimaginative." In fact, I'd argue GS design/styling is THE most imaginative in the industry. Who else would design a dial to look like white birch trees in a forest?
Couldn't have said it any better.
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Old 23 September 2021, 11:07 PM   #92
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here is mine, champagne dial. You got a super picture here of yours! An impressive watch, that money doesn't go far in the Rolex world... this blows away many Rolex models...
That looks great on that strap. Can I ask which strap that is?

I picked up a Barton black leather for mine, but yours looks like a few steps up and I would love to have a deployant clasp like that.

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Old 24 September 2021, 12:25 AM   #93
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That looks great on that strap. Can I ask which strap that is?

I picked up a Barton black leather for mine, but yours looks like a few steps up and I would love to have a deployant clasp like that.

That looks great, and the GS champagne dials are so stunning, very different to their silver dials.
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Old 25 September 2021, 02:20 AM   #94
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With regard to long term parts availability, I believe GS has sufficient commitment to service movements for the foreseeable future.
I keep hearing different things about that as well, but I believe I have seen it stated to be as long as 35 years after production ceases
That's correct. Seiko watches stock replacement parts for 10 years. Grand Seiko will have parts available for 30 years.

Here's the post from Joe Kirk of GS USA. It's the fifth question/answer down on the list.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/f...rvice.4203962/
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Old 21 September 2022, 05:47 AM   #95
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I've owned 4 Grand Seiko's :†


Grand Seiko 'Limited Edition' SBGR311
Grand Seiko "Snowflake' SBGA211
Grand Seiko 'Limited Edition'† GMT SBGN001
Grand Seiko 'Heritage Collection' SBGV229

I currently own none.

Grand Seiko's have incredible†dials...but then, so does many Seiko's, even Seiko 5's. Their bracelets are subpar, a Seiko trademark and if one was to compare them to any modern Rolex bracelet, the Grand Seiko bracelets are junk.

I like their movement's, especially their HAQ Caliber 9F models, I never did buy into the whole watch having a ''soul'' and one must shun all quartz. Grand Seiko like Seiko grow their own quartz crystals, keeping everything in-house and their 9F models are crazy accurate.

Another strong point is the Zaratsu polishing but having had the models I've had I can honestly say that they are no better than other higher end brands that I compared them to.

My opinion†is that while Grand Seiko makes a nice watch they are years away from having the quality feel that a Rolex has when handled and worn.
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Old 21 September 2022, 08:47 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by CharliesPal View Post
I've owned 4 Grand Seiko's :†


Grand Seiko 'Limited Edition' SBGR311
Grand Seiko "Snowflake' SBGA211
Grand Seiko 'Limited Edition'† GMT SBGN001
Grand Seiko 'Heritage Collection' SBGV229

I currently own none.

Grand Seiko's have incredible†dials...but then, so does many Seiko's, even Seiko 5's. Their bracelets are subpar, a Seiko trademark and if one was to compare them to any modern Rolex bracelet, the Grand Seiko bracelets are junk.

I like their movement's, especially their HAQ Caliber 9F models, I never did buy into the whole watch having a ''soul'' and one must shun all quartz. Grand Seiko like Seiko grow their own quartz crystals, keeping everything in-house and their 9F models are crazy accurate.

Another strong point is the Zaratsu polishing but having had the models I've had I can honestly say that they are no better than other higher end brands that I compared them to.

My opinion†is that while Grand Seiko makes a nice watch they are years away from having the quality feel that a Rolex has when handled and worn.
All good points. The bracelets are a big one for me. It is almost like GS and Seiko stick with what they have even though it is well know that customers want a better bracelet.
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Old 21 September 2022, 09:38 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by CharliesPal View Post
I've owned 4 Grand Seiko's :†


Grand Seiko 'Limited Edition' SBGR311
Grand Seiko "Snowflake' SBGA211
Grand Seiko 'Limited Edition'† GMT SBGN001
Grand Seiko 'Heritage Collection' SBGV229

I currently own none.

Grand Seiko's have incredible†dials...but then, so does many Seiko's, even Seiko 5's. Their bracelets are subpar, a Seiko trademark and if one was to compare them to any modern Rolex bracelet, the Grand Seiko bracelets are junk.

I like their movement's, especially their HAQ Caliber 9F models, I never did buy into the whole watch having a ''soul'' and one must shun all quartz. Grand Seiko like Seiko grow their own quartz crystals, keeping everything in-house and their 9F models are crazy accurate.

Another strong point is the Zaratsu polishing but having had the models I've had I can honestly say that they are no better than other higher end brands that I compared them to.

My opinion†is that while Grand Seiko makes a nice watch they are years away from having the quality feel that a Rolex has when handled and worn.
Basically you are saying GS makes a better watch (dial, finishing, movement) and Rolex makes a better bracelet. I agree with that assessment. To me the watch is more important than the bracelet, but I agree completely that Rolex just kills them (and most other brands) with their bracelets. They are like butter.
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Old 21 September 2022, 09:46 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by samson66 View Post
Basically you are saying GS makes a better watch (dial, finishing, movement) and Rolex makes a better bracelet. I agree with that assessment. To me the watch is more important than the bracelet, but I agree completely that Rolex just kills them (and most other brands) with their bracelets. They are like butter.
I find the bracelet and clasp on my SBGT235 really comfortable and very smooth to open and close, compared to my Rolex bracelets. Certainly not all GS bracelets are the same.
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Old 21 September 2022, 09:58 PM   #99
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Yes, my comments were just based off of the models that I've owned and again just my opinion. Also I should point out that I didn't part ways with my Grand Seiko's due to a perceived lack of quality or that I didn't like them. I sold off the bulk of my original collection and they went along with my Rolex's. I've every intension of one day owning another as they are a fine watch and what they do well...they do very well.

On a side note : I've heard that the bracelets on the Seiko Prospex LX models are extremly well made and comfortable to wear.
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Old 23 September 2022, 09:48 AM   #100
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Iíve literally never met anyone whoís done this. Who do you hang out with?
its very much a thing amongst the younger or more image conscious wearers where it is all about the name on the dial.
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Old 23 September 2022, 12:48 PM   #101
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its very much a thing amongst the younger or more image conscious wearers where it is all about the name on the dial.
I donít know anybody young or image conscious, I guess thatís why Iíve never seen anybody do this.
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Old 23 September 2022, 03:45 PM   #102
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I own two Grand Seiko watches - the SBGA407 (skyflake) and the SBGJ259 (green bamboo). My current Rolex collection consists of a SkyDweller (326933), DayDate (118238), and Explorer II (16570). I've previously owned multiple other Rolex watches.

Rolex feels sturdier and heftier than Grand Seiko. As I like a "beefier" watch, I do enjoy wearing my Rolex watches more than my Grand Seikos.

But, when I wear my Grand Seikos, I can sometimes get lost staring at the dials, hands, and indices. I actually take photos of my GS in different lighting and conditions to see how different the dials look on them under different conditions. As others have said, the depth, detail, and finishing are far above anything with my Rolex.

You referenced specifically a Rolex OP. Given the choice between most any GS and an OP, I'd inevitably choose the GS all day.

And, as you mentioned, you can actually buy a GS. You can go into a Grand Seiko boutique, and be treated as a valued customer while a Rolex boutique will basically sneer at you and tell you to get lost.

GS has a rightful place in most any collection. I have no regrets on mine.
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Old 23 September 2022, 06:36 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by wesdaniel View Post
I own two Grand Seiko watches - the SBGA407 (skyflake) and the SBGJ259 (green bamboo). My current Rolex collection consists of a SkyDweller (326933), DayDate (118238), and Explorer II (16570). I've previously owned multiple other Rolex watches.

Rolex feels sturdier and heftier than Grand Seiko. As I like a "beefier" watch, I do enjoy wearing my Rolex watches more than my Grand Seikos.

But, when I wear my Grand Seikos, I can sometimes get lost staring at the dials, hands, and indices. I actually take photos of my GS in different lighting and conditions to see how different the dials look on them under different conditions. As others have said, the depth, detail, and finishing are far above anything with my Rolex.

You referenced specifically a Rolex OP. Given the choice between most any GS and an OP, I'd inevitably choose the GS all day.

And, as you mentioned, you can actually buy a GS. You can go into a Grand Seiko boutique, and be treated as a valued customer while a Rolex boutique will basically sneer at you and tell you to get lost.

GS has a rightful place in most any collection. I have no regrets on mine.
Nice pair of GS... health to enjoy!
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Old 23 September 2022, 08:20 PM   #104
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I own both a GS Omiwatari and a Daytona. Sometimes I will wear the Daytona and then switch to the GS later on that day. I do not feel like I am changing to a cheaper watch even though the Daytona cost about 5k more at retail. The Omiwatari is a perfect stainless dress watch that checks all the boxes for an enthusiast collector. The movement is only present in one other GS model and that watch cost 50k. The dial is stunning, the blue second hand mesmerizing, and case is thin and glows in the light due to the polishing. I love my Rolex, the dial, the bracelet, the prestige of owning an icon, but I feel the GS I ended up buying perfectly encompasses my love for Japanese engineering and attention to detail.
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Old 23 September 2022, 08:39 PM   #105
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I think GS bracelets get a bad wrap- I find them very comfortable once you get it properly sized / adjusted- and this is the hardest part and usually takes me a few tries before finding perfect fit . Would be a touch easier if their were micro adjustments and these are really my only gripes w the GS bracelet. Otherwise itís solid, looks nice and is as comfortable on my wrist as most of my Rolex and my steel PP.


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Old 23 September 2022, 08:56 PM   #106
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Nice pix all.
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Old 25 September 2022, 12:58 PM   #107
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I think GS bracelets get a bad wrap- I find them very comfortable once you get it properly sized / adjusted- and this is the hardest part and usually takes me a few tries before finding perfect fit . Would be a touch easier if their were micro adjustments and these are really my only gripes w the GS bracelet. Otherwise itís solid, looks nice and is as comfortable on my wrist as most of my Rolex and my steel PP.


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I too find the GS bracelet very comfortable. Sizing in the correct manner is key. I also very much appreciate the small clasp. I despise a large clasp. Especially from the big R as well as the "O". Once fitted, I have no complaints what so ever.
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Old Yesterday, 02:24 AM   #108
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The saying goes that you buy/wear Rolex to impress others and buy/wear GS to impress yourself.
I will grant that on average a GS buyer is less likely to be buying a watch in the hope that it will impress anyone, but this and your alternative "be somebody" version is a hackneyed and tiresome comment.

It's fair to say that few GS buyers expect it to raise their status outside the sub-forum of a watch website but painting Rolex owners with such a broad brush is some pretty weak sauce.

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Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM   #109
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In our watch club, it is very obvious when a new member joins to tell if there a true watch enthusiast of part of the herd or flexer. Longtime members such as myself appreciate many different watches for many different reasons. We share our passion with other members who do likewise. I don't care for every watch made by any single brand or by price point.

But when the new guy starts the conversation by announcing "it's a rolex" and just can't recognize any other brand as quality equal to or better than his, He usually finds his self alone. There are a few watches that I really enjoy from many brands. There all marvelous in there own right. That's what it's all about for me.

I have found that I truly enjoy quite a few from GS. I own many and enjoy them all for different reasons. Strangely no 2 are the same. All have different cases, shapes and sizes. At present I am contemplating a Panerai. I have owned a few. But this one intrest me. We shall see if it makes the cut.

But one thing above all. I love the passion in a true enthusiast. One who can look past a name and enjoy a piece for its own terms.
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Old Yesterday, 01:05 PM   #110
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Both brands have plenty of over-hypers and baseless haters. All I can say is everyone needs to see a watch in person to really know. My level of disappointment after finally seeing a Sky-Dweller in person was only eclipsed by my disappointment in seeing an Omiwatari. And on that latter day I first saw a JLC Master Control, which I previously had no interest in, but shortly thereafter purchased.

We all like different things. Trying to convince somebody else to adopt your watch preference is like trying to tell them what their favorite food should be.
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Old Yesterday, 04:22 PM   #111
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I think the line between enthusiasm and religious conviction is narrow.

Therefore it isn't worth arguing with those who want to find their faith and their self-confidence in their watches.
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Old Yesterday, 11:30 PM   #112
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In our watch club, it is very obvious when a new member joins to tell if there a true watch enthusiast of part of the herd or flexer. Longtime members such as myself appreciate many different watches for many different reasons. We share our passion with other members who do likewise. I don't care for every watch made by any single brand or by price point.

But when the new guy starts the conversation by announcing "it's a rolex" and just can't recognize any other brand as quality equal to or better than his, He usually finds his self alone. There are a few watches that I really enjoy from many brands. There all marvelous in there own right. That's what it's all about for me.

I have found that I truly enjoy quite a few from GS. I own many and enjoy them all for different reasons. Strangely no 2 are the same. All have different cases, shapes and sizes. At present I am contemplating a Panerai. I have owned a few. But this one intrest me. We shall see if it makes the cut.

But one thing above all. I love the passion in a true enthusiast. One who can look past a name and enjoy a piece for its own terms.

Some very good points. In our local watch club, as new members attend events, it is apparent who has been in the hobby for a while and who is typically new. Strong statements and opinions tend to flow from the least informed, educated and experienced. But I remember back to when I got involved in the hobby in the early 90's and I was that guy. It took a lot of life experience and watch experience before I started to understand that there are many great brands and someone's personal preference is just that. Grand Seiko is a fabulous brand and for many reasons you can have a discussion about why they are better than some others. You can also have a discussion about how great other brands are at what they do. One brand does not have to be diminished to point to the other brand. Just some thoughts.
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Old Today, 08:44 AM   #113
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True, very true.
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