Price increase?

[youthagainsttt]

Originally Posted by thecrownprince

What are you basing off of in regards to older clients being sidelined? Are you saying that people who have owned several RO purchased at boutiques are no longer preferred to receive say a 50th RO?

And new customers can walk in and get a RO easily?

Personally I’m not sure that’s the case - if it is, it’s a real issue. Even as a new customer to AP (took five years to a boutique to even open the door for me - I applaud the boutique over AD strategy for helping get me into the customer date - I still feel that previous loyal clients should be prioritized.

Also I don’t believe that new customers = flippers. In fact I would argue that people who have already own one or two RO might be more inclined.


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I don't think older clients are sidelined but at the same time watches are so trendy these days and everyone talks about APs as a good investment, I even heard one of my favourite lifestyle youtubers say this yesterday. I think they are being distributed based in factors that myself and others have espoused.

On both sides of the coin, a boutique may be thinking an older client already has a 15400, why would they be allocated a 50th anniversary date-only RO? On the other newer clients may be slightly more likely to flip them imo

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by thecrownprince

What are you basing off of in regards to older clients being sidelined? Are you saying that people who have owned several RO purchased at boutiques are no longer preferred to receive say a 50th RO?

And new customers can walk in and get a RO easily?

Personally I’m not sure that’s the case - if it is, it’s a real issue. Even as a new customer to AP (took five years to a boutique to even open the door for me - I applaud the boutique over AD strategy for helping get me into the customer date - I still feel that previous loyal clients should be prioritized.

Also I don’t believe that new customers = flippers. In fact I would argue that people who have already own one or two RO might be more inclined.


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It’s an impossible situation in balancing new client development with existing retention. As GS said so well it’s fubar. While it is great you got the green ROC as a second watch and very likely no doubt will be an amazing client to develop for decades to come, the impossible position of the boutique is that that same decision will likely offend existing loyal clients that had the same piece on their wishlist but were declined.

At any rate, the great thing about retiring as CEO is to end on a high note and punt the problems onto the next CEO! Lol.

[GS93108]

No one can get an AP 'easily', old or new. Nevertheless, AP did have a policy this year that indeed allowed the odd walk in and walk out. Trust me.

There is also a supposed policy of one 50th per customer only, we know that hasn't been adhered to.

Flippers...way too complicated a subject.

Growing a brand requires new customers, new demographics, new ideas but it needs to be an insidious creep so that hopefully we oldies don't notice :)

The 50th rotor was a nice idea, but equally that's probably the biggest issue this year. Honestly what difference is there between a ROC with and without the 50th rotor? Nothing other than monetary residual.

Ho hum, a can of worms and truly a next to impossible problem for AP to deal with.

p.s.

To all the 'new' AP customers this year that have picked up your first AP and possibly even a 50th - kudos to you, you have clearly deserved it. I mean that sincerely. I'm talking from a very big over view position, not specific to TRF or to me, just observations.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by youthagainsttt

I don't think older clients are sidelined but at the same time watches are so trendy these days and everyone talks about APs as a good investment, I even heard one of my favourite lifestyle youtubers say this yesterday. I think they are being distributed based in factors that myself and others have espoused.

On both sides of the coin, a boutique may be thinking an older client already has a 15400, why would they be allocated a 50th anniversary date-only RO? On the other newer clients may be slightly more likely to flip them imo

I completely agree with you.
It's not impossible to get an AP (even a RO) as the first watch but you'll have to be prepared to wait.

It's a delicate balancing act. Even with the existing client base given the demand of the last few years I'm sure AP could have sold every single watch they produced 5 times over. Add to that a new segment of people with new wealth now thinking watches are worth looking into and you can't satisfy the demand. But at the same time, not catering to any new customers is not a way to runs business either.

To be honest, the boutique model I think is the best idea AP had. That way they will have a much better overview of their entire customer base, allocate demand and be able to trade-off SA clients against the allocation.

I'd much prefer this approach in terms of potential equitability vs an AD expecting you to buy tons of jewelry (see - Rolex) or having copious amounts of historical spend to be "approved" to spend another couple of tens of thousands on the watch you want...


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[Mini2]

Originally Posted by GS93108

No one can get an AP 'easily', old or new. Nevertheless, AP did have a policy this year that indeed allowed the odd walk in and walk out. Trust me.

There is also a supposed policy of one 50th per customer only, we know that hasn't been adhered to.

Flippers...way too complicated a subject.

Growing a brand requires new customers, new demographics, new ideas but it needs to be an insidious creep so that hopefully we oldies don't notice :)

The 50th rotor was a nice idea, but equally that's probably the biggest issue this year. Honestly what difference is there between a ROC with and without the 50th rotor? Nothing other than monetary residual.

Ho hum, a can of worms and truly a next to impossible problem for AP to deal with.

p.s.

To all the 'new' AP customers this year that have picked up your first AP and possibly even a 50th - kudos to you, you have clearly deserved it. I mean that sincerely. I'm talking from a very big over view position, not specific to TRF or to me, just observations.

I have got to the realisation of if they like you you will get what you desire. I am clearly not liked

[gretch6364]

Definitely a tough spot and I truly feel AP is doing the best they can to juggle this current craze. Seems to me they are balancing new and cold clients.

Yes, I am a new client, and my wife got a 37mm as our first AP this year. But as a new customer....I will say this, we love AP watches. The design, the quality, etc. We (my wife and I) are not suddenly coming over to AP due to the hype, although I wont lie that value retention makes justifying the purchase easier.

This is our first "nice" watch. We don't have a bunch of Rolex watches and decided to switch to AP. It is AP from the start. It just so happens we are youngish and had other things to check off the list first (engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, kids, house, payoff cars, etc.) before we bought a nice watch.

I fully expect our next watch to be a ROO. It fits my life best as a main daily piece. Hopefully from there, a dinner/meeting watch will be allocated.

That said...I don't think AP needs the hip hop community, but it does help them appear to be more then just an old rich guy watch (Patek)

[wiswrist]

I wonder what the MSRP on the 26585CE is now?

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by GS93108

I know too many existing customers that have been sidelined this year at the expense of new customers - and we only have to look at chrono24 to see how that has worked out.

Yeah, whatever plan they had of separating flippers from new long-term customers seems not to have fared well upon contact with the enemy. The amount of 26240's on C24 is a bit disconcerting.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Yeah, whatever plan they had of separating flippers from new long-term customers seems not to have fared well upon contact with the enemy. The amount of 26240's on C24 is a bit disconcerting.

And NONE of them have sold. That’s the exact watch I’m on the list for, so I’ve been following everything closely. Shame as it seems so many got this watch just to flip. I think some saw the initial spike to 6 figures and bought even second hand to try and re-flip. I hope they all get burnt tremendously.

I also truly hope that AP is keeping track of any that were registered and then re-registered to new owners and blacklisting the original buyer forever. There’s zero excuse to get rid of such a piece in such a short turnaround other than it was your plan to flip the entire time.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Yeah, whatever plan they had of separating flippers from new long-term customers seems not to have fared well upon contact with the enemy. The amount of 26240's on C24 is a bit disconcerting.

Very true. Unfortunately seen quite a few 50th Anniversary pieces being flipped via Moda too.

All at the expense of true AP fans that wanted to add such piece to their collection this year.

[psm11]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Yeah, whatever plan they had of separating flippers from new long-term customers seems not to have fared well upon contact with the enemy. The amount of 26240's on C24 is a bit disconcerting.

I'd just like for them to give me a logical answer (they won't even address the question) when they tell me how hard it is to get a royal oak and I ask how that can be when there are hundreds of ROs on Chrono24 and other grey sites.

[blada4life]

Originally Posted by GS93108

No one can get an AP 'easily', old or new. Nevertheless, AP did have a policy this year that indeed allowed the odd walk in and walk out. Trust me.

There is also a supposed policy of one 50th per customer only, we know that hasn't been adhered to.

Flippers...way too complicated a subject.

Growing a brand requires new customers, new demographics, new ideas but it needs to be an insidious creep so that hopefully we oldies don't notice :)

The 50th rotor was a nice idea, but equally that's probably the biggest issue this year. Honestly what difference is there between a ROC with and without the 50th rotor? Nothing other than monetary residual.

Ho hum, a can of worms and truly a next to impossible problem for AP to deal with.

p.s.

To all the 'new' AP customers this year that have picked up your first AP and possibly even a 50th - kudos to you, you have clearly deserved it. I mean that sincerely. I'm talking from a very big over view position, not specific to TRF or to me, just observations.

THANK YOU! I am one of these people. First timer and they gave me a 50th. Granted I was on them for over a year but they made it happen. Kudos to the brand, the SA and the manager who personally spent time getting to know me. Rolex should take note.

[xliang23]

Originally Posted by wiswrist

I wonder what the MSRP on the 26585CE is now?

Me too

[Reign]

Originally Posted by xliang23

Me too

It was 133 francs last summer and it was 130 when it was released


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[xliang23]

Originally Posted by Reign

It was 133 francs last summer and it was 130 when it was released


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Well the 26574OR is now 133k usd so... This is old information

[messikens]

Originally Posted by psm11

I'd just like for them to give me a logical answer (they won't even address the question) when they tell me how hard it is to get a royal oak and I ask how that can be when there are hundreds of ROs on Chrono24 and other grey sites.

Pretty easy actually.

Some ADS misbehaving but the large majority is retail clients who cant resist buying something at $35k, selling it to a Grey dealer at $65k who then lists it at $89k on Chrono24 / Moda. Easiest 30k you'll ever make if you don't care about your AP relationship...

But are you expecting your SA to say that?

[xliang23]

Deleted

[Bpan]

Originally Posted by messikens

Pretty easy actually.

Some ADS misbehaving but the large majority is retail clients who cant resist buying something at $35k, selling it to a Grey dealer at $65k who then lists it at $89k on Chrono24 / Moda. Easiest 30k you'll ever make if you don't care about your AP relationship...

But are you expecting your SA to say that?

The better AP gets at screening clients, the fewer will be available on the grey market and the higher price they will go for which will create a greater incentive for people to flip.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by TunaTuna

Respectfully AP is not looking for clients like you, one's on a budget, even if your budget seems high to you.

AP does not want clients who cannot handle a 10% price increase. They want wealthy clients, and those that can buy more than just one watch. Rolex sells to the masses, AP does not want that

Respectfully, most of your posts seem to be on behalf of AP and condescending in manner. You really should consider toning it down a bit as it can be offensive to many. Do you have a high ranking source at AP that makes you so sure about your statements on behalf of AP?

Most everyone is on a budget of some sort. This is a hobby after all and not investments. There is no way AP can sustain their brand or legacy just selling to people who don't have a budget.

I've purchased 3 AP's this year and the 4th on the way. One of them being the RO QP. I had no issues paying the $84k+tax for the piece. At $106k, it would of given me pause. A 20% increase is big. Would that make me a client AP does not want?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Respectfully, most of your posts seem to be on behalf of AP and condescending in manner. You really should consider toning it down a bit as it can be offensive to many. Do you have a high ranking source at AP that makes you so sure about your statements on behalf of AP?

Most everyone is on a budget of some sort. This is a hobby after all and not investments. There is no way AP can sustain their brand or legacy just selling to people who don't have a budget.

I've purchased 3 AP's this year and the 4th on the way. One of them being the RO QP. I had no issues paying the $84k+tax for the piece. At $106k, it would of given me pause. A 20% increase is big. Would that make me a client AP does not want?

I have been thinking the exact same thing but didn’t want to point it out. If you peruse his post history its nothing but negative comments spoken in certainties. Nothing really of value to ever add, just constant doom and gloom. It’s bordering rude at times with comments such as claiming an individual is not an ideal customer without an apparent limitless income stream. Super weird to be honest, as the vibe I get from AP is the EXACT opposite of this behavior.

[thecrownprince]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Respectfully, most of your posts seem to be on behalf of AP and condescending in manner. You really should consider toning it down a bit as it can be offensive to many. Do you have a high ranking source at AP that makes you so sure about your statements on behalf of AP?

Most everyone is on a budget of some sort. This is a hobby after all and not investments. There is no way AP can sustain their brand or legacy just selling to people who don't have a budget.

I've purchased 3 AP's this year and the 4th on the way. One of them being the RO QP. I had no issues paying the $84k+tax for the piece. At $106k, it would of given me pause. A 20% increase is big. Would that make me a client AP does not want?

106k is a lot for sure. To be fair I always thought of the QP as quite a bargain. I’m now considering tourbillons and Openworked instead (yes I know it’s harder). Does anyone know how much the RD3 (jumbo tourbillon) cost? I assume that’s the hardest one.


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[BobtheBaby]

Originally Posted by dmash

I have been thinking the exact same thing but didn’t want to point it out. If you peruse his post history its nothing but negative comments spoken in certainties. Nothing really of value to ever add, just constant doom and gloom. It’s bordering rude at times with comments such as claiming an individual is not an ideal customer without an apparent limitless income stream. Super weird to be honest, as the vibe I get from AP is the EXACT opposite of this behavior.

Thirded.

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by thecrownprince

106k is a lot for sure. To be fair I always thought of the QP as quite a bargain. I’m now considering tourbillons and Openworked instead (yes I know it’s harder). Does anyone know how much the RD3 (jumbo tourbillon) cost? I assume that’s the hardest one.


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Call your boutique or Clearwater with the reference number to ask for the price. They'll gladly share it with you.

[DonLee]

Originally Posted by jts278

Yeah the QP in steel and ti just skyrocketed. When I got mine in May, it was only HKD 658k and now it is on the website for HKD 823k. That's a 25% increase!!

The RO QP is amazing especially with the new dial. Good luck to those who still want it!

Yeah, and weirdly the 300 piece salmon dial is "only" 750k.

25% increase mid year is quite crazy.

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by dmash

And NONE of them have sold. That’s the exact watch I’m on the list for, so I’ve been following everything closely. Shame as it seems so many got this watch just to flip. I think some saw the initial spike to 6 figures and bought even second hand to try and re-flip. I hope they all get burnt tremendously.

I also truly hope that AP is keeping track of any that were registered and then re-registered to new owners and blacklisting the original buyer forever. There’s zero excuse to get rid of such a piece in such a short turnaround other than it was your plan to flip the entire time.

Bit hard to black list certain SA

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by Bpan

The better AP gets at screening clients, the fewer will be available on the grey market and the higher price they will go for which will create a greater incentive for people to flip.

Maybe should start with screening employees

[whiterabbit66]

Inflation is running close to 10%. Most people I know have pay rises in the 15% mark in the last year. Companies increasing dividends at a rapid pace. Most real buyers who own assets (not borrow) are probably much better off than a year ago. In realty AP's raise is probably equal to their internal costs going up : wages, raw materials, shipping and ground rent. I talked to local boutique last week where I know them well and everything sold out this year with multiple people on waitlists. Also in reality it is still cheaper to buy at retail in boutique than any other method for 99.9% of real buyers. AP know what they are doing and their clients...........

[TunaTuna]

Originally Posted by GW44

Ah yes, the classic "respectfully" followed by an out and out insult.

I would respectfully (see what I did there.......) suggest that my own valued contacts at AP House here in the UK do not share the view that you purport to offer on behalf of AP.

Also you might want to read my post again and its proper context.

Sorry I forgot to edit out the word 'respectfully'. It is now corrected, please excuse the mistake

[psm11]

Originally Posted by messikens

Pretty easy actually.

Some ADS misbehaving but the large majority is retail clients who cant resist buying something at $35k, selling it to a Grey dealer at $65k who then lists it at $89k on Chrono24 / Moda. Easiest 30k you'll ever make if you don't care about your AP relationship...

But are you expecting your SA to say that?

Honestly, yes. I expect the SA to be forthcoming and honest just as AP expects me to be. Many of us are devoting significant time to starting a relationship with AP and so I think it is fair to expect some honesty and not pretending a problem doesn't exist.

I totally get what you are saying tho. But it clearly shows that the hoops AP is making us go through isn't full proof and isn't really solving the flipping problem. It begs to question, especially with prices on the secondary continuing to fall, if playing the AP relationship game is really worth it.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by psm11

Honestly, yes. I expect the SA to be forthcoming and honest just as AP expects me to be. Many of us are devoting significant time to starting a relationship with AP and so I think it is fair to expect some honesty and not pretending a problem doesn't exist.

I totally get what you are saying tho. But it clearly shows that the hoops AP is making us go through isn't full proof and isn't really solving the flipping problem. It begs to question, especially with prices on the secondary continuing to fall, if playing the AP relationship game is really worth it.

100% agree!

Like I said a few posts above, it "easier" to justify if the secondary demand and potential increase is high. But once prices drop below MSRP (see my chase for a 26420), it becomes hard to justify... Visit boutique and say hi to be able to purchase something for full MSRP and tax OR potentially get immediately at $3k lower than MSRP and no tax, now you're talking paying AP an opportunity cost of $8k plus wait times...