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Old 27 September 2022, 02:01 AM   #1
Blansky
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Starter Homes....

An interesting take on the concept of starter homes, that I used to see growing up that enabled people to get into the housing market.

I remember when I moved to the Silicon Valley, San Jose in the early 90s we had the opportunity to buy a rental home we were in for $275 and by the time we decided to stay there 3 years later the guy wanted $775 for it. This outrageous jump price was tech related but now it's hard to find any houses in decent size cities in most parts of the country that aren't getting close to a million dollars and up for 2500 sq ft.

Of course, do most people need 2500 sq feet???

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/25/u...il&sponsored=0
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Old 27 September 2022, 02:14 AM   #2
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What’s being built (2500+ square feet, expensive materials) seems out of reach for most people. What I think we need are ~1200 sf prefab homes made with less costly materials.
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Old 27 September 2022, 02:16 AM   #3
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What’s being built (2500+ square feet, expensive materials) seems out of reach for most people. What I think we need are ~1200 sf prefab homes made with less costly materials.
I think my first house in Canada was in a subdivision that was around 1200 sq ft as were most of the houses in that subdivision. Circa early 1980s.

Then soon after I guess, 1990s came the McMansion.
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Old 27 September 2022, 02:36 AM   #4
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I think my first house in Canada was in a subdivision that was around 1200 sq ft as were most of the houses in that subdivision. Circa early 1980s.

Then soon after I guess, 1990s came the McMansion.
Markets work most of the time, but when it comes to things (like housing, education and liver transplants) for which demand is highly inelastic, they don’t work particularly well.

My take on the housing market is that demand at current pricing is extremely shallow. The market is being set by edge cases, e.g., wealthy professionals who decide to work remote in Georgia and don’t care that the house they’re buying costs $700K. So then that’s the price every seller wants, but since there’s no depth at that price, nobody but Blackstone will pay it. Then the only way Blackstone can recoup their investment is to pack the house with a group of young renters who can’t afford to rent the house on their own, which is a great way to end up with your property trashed by wear and tear, parties, and a bunch of pets, since tenants who are financially squeezed, cramped and unhappy will not treat the property with tender love and care
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Old 27 September 2022, 02:46 AM   #5
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I’d jump off a cliff before I lived in 1200 sq feet with kids. My starter house was around 2100 and it was cramped. I suppose that’s just suburban bias and being accustomed to space. I realize that’s not realistic in a major metro.
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Old 27 September 2022, 03:02 AM   #6
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I’d jump off a cliff before I lived in 1200 sq feet with kids. My starter house was around 2100 and it was cramped. I suppose that’s just suburban bias and being accustomed to space. I realize that’s not realistic in a major metro.
In Santa Rosa CA about 70 miles north of San Francisco in wine country, the Tubbs fire of 2017 came down a hill, jumped a 6 lane freeway and nailed a subdivision and burned about 3000 homes to the ground. It basically cleaned out an entire subdivision.

So they hauled all the rubble away and started fresh.

The problem was the houses were all older and around 1200-1400 sq ft. But now everyone wanted larger homes with gourmet kitchens, great rooms, 4 bedrooms etc etc but the lots were too small for that rating of a home.

So they stretched the regulations a bit and now the homes are on the same lot but there is a tiny yard.
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Old 27 September 2022, 03:27 AM   #7
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My first apartment in London was less than 400 sq ft!!
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Old 27 September 2022, 03:40 AM   #8
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Generally speaking, blue collar “Starter homes” are a thing of the past in the US……. very sad.
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Old 27 September 2022, 03:50 AM   #9
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Since they build housing here at what feels like the same rate McDonald's sells hamburgers....

Seeing more high-density four story being built (1400 sq ft ~375k). There's also the two 'homes' sharing the same roof and a wall (~1300 sq ft... $400k). Prices are of course moving higher than income, made worse by the declining value in the Federal Reserve's Dollar currency since actual home costs go upward as higher Interest costs diminish equity.
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Old 27 September 2022, 04:09 AM   #10
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I'm seeing new subdivisions in my area with 1500 sq ft homes on 7000 sq ft lots for $400,000. The size says starter, but the price is well above the median home prices in the area.
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Old 27 September 2022, 06:20 AM   #11
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If you stay long enough your starter home can also be your retirement home.
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Old 27 September 2022, 06:22 AM   #12
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We are seeing 250 per sq foot to build around my area for relatively standard finishes. Lots are 60-200k depending on location. So yeah building isn’t for beginners unless they have solid income.

We also have those infill developments with postage stamp lots. I couldn’t do that considering many of them are 500-750k. I need some privacy.
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Old 27 September 2022, 07:04 AM   #13
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If you stay long enough your starter home can also be your retirement home.
Good point.

Often thought a person should circle back to their starter home after they downsize when kids leave home.

We’re back to 1800 sq ft. I can’t imagine a couple wanting to live on some of the homes around my area. 5000, 10,000 sq ft homes for 2 people.

Imagine the dusting you have to do.
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Old 27 September 2022, 07:13 AM   #14
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Get the feeling the housing market will be singing a very different song this time next year. Not a real pretty song, either.

. . . . . unless you're a buyer not selling their previous home.
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Old 27 September 2022, 07:15 AM   #15
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Good point.

Often thought a person should circle back to their starter home after they downsize when kids leave home.

We’re back to 1800 sq ft. I can’t imagine a couple wanting to live on some of the homes around my area. 5000, 10,000 sq ft homes for 2 people.

Imagine the dusting you have to do.
Dusting? Hire someone.
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Old 27 September 2022, 07:24 AM   #16
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Dusting? Hire someone.
In the past I find it less of a hassle to run my leaf blower through the house once a week instead of a stranger wandering around the house snooping through my stuff.
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Old 27 September 2022, 07:34 AM   #17
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We also have those infill developments with postage stamp lots. I couldn’t do that considering many of them are 500-750k. I need some privacy.
Agree. My neighborhood lots are 3/4 to 1 acre, no fences. It feels wide open, but still in the city.

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In the past I find it less of a hassle to run my leaf blower through the house once a week instead of a stranger wandering around the house snooping through my stuff.
Gas or electric?
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Old 27 September 2022, 08:03 AM   #18
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My humidor is 2500 sqft
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Old 27 September 2022, 08:14 AM   #19
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My humidor is 2500 sqft
Whatya do. Buy the Spruce Goose?
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Old 27 September 2022, 08:16 AM   #20
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Whatya do. Buy the Spruce Goose?

El Spruca Goosé

And a province in Honduras to fill it with leaf.
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Old 28 September 2022, 11:26 PM   #21
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I’d jump off a cliff before I lived in 1200 sq feet with kids. My starter house was around 2100 and it was cramped. I suppose that’s just suburban bias and being accustomed to space. I realize that’s not realistic in a major metro.
My wife and I were talking about this just the other day …

We downsized to a bungalow (3000 sq/ft) main floor and full walk out basement. Plenty of space for the teenagers as they have the run of the basement and we have the main floor. We do actually like eachother so we intermingle

What’s crazy, is we find we spend the majority of our time together in just two rooms of the house … the kitchen and great room, whether we’re entertaining or just hanging out the four of us.

We know folks that live in what many would consider large homes (5000sq/ft+). Whenever we visit, we always end up hanging out in the same two rooms … the kitchen and the great room
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Old 29 September 2022, 12:21 AM   #22
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We went from a large home to a small home. So much better for us. At this point we no longer care what others think.
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Old 29 September 2022, 12:40 AM   #23
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Started w/ a tiny little bungalow on a corner lot in an old tree lined neighborhood in Northern Ky back in 1990 after moving from across The Ohio River from the east side of Cincy. Bought the house partly because the address w/ #1.

Lived there 10 years, just about doubled our money, and moved closer to the river, w/ a sprawling view of downtown Cincy & Northern Ky, in a 3 level contemporary. Way too big for 2 people but it's helped our marriage to survive as we can go weeks without seeing each other. It's my dream house and have loved every one of the past 22 years here.

My wife wants to downsize and move even closer to The River. I agreed as long as it has a deck [or balconey] w/ a view and no mortgage. Looks like we're staying here.
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Old 29 September 2022, 01:22 AM   #24
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My wife and I were talking about this just the other day …

We downsized to a bungalow (3000 sq/ft) main floor and full walk out basement. Plenty of space for the teenagers as they have the run of the basement and we have the main floor. We do actually like eachother so we intermingle

What’s crazy, is we find we spend the majority of our time together in just two rooms of the house … the kitchen and great room, whether we’re entertaining or just hanging out the four of us.

We know folks that live in what many would consider large homes (5000sq/ft+). Whenever we visit, we always end up hanging out in the same two rooms … the kitchen and the great room
Growing up in Canada we always had basements which theoretically almost double your usable square footage. In California almost nobody has basements (probably why so much junk is stored in garages).

I agree, with the advent of "great rooms" in popularity, that's where people spend most of their time. Kitchen and family room combination.

When we bought the house we have now, a year and a half ago, there were still homes being sold that were "updated" but still had the kitchen in a separate room like 30 or so years ago. Couldn't do it. Never want a home that has separate rooms like kitchen, dining, family separation again. I never want to have a "showroom" living room that nobody ever goes in, or a "dining room" that is used just for Christmas etc.
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Old 29 September 2022, 01:25 AM   #25
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Growing up in Canada we always had basements which theoretically almost double your usable square footage. In California almost nobody has basements (probably why so much junk is stored in garages).



I agree, with the advent of "great rooms" in popularity, that's where people spend most of their time. Kitchen and family room combination.
Is there a reason why basements aren't a thing in California ... aside from the lovely weather?

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Old 29 September 2022, 01:34 AM   #26
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Is there a reason why basements aren't a thing in California ... aside from the lovely weather?

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I really don't know if it's a water table thing or cheaper to just put down a pad and build or what its about.

I think a lot of the western states don't have basements and its a perhaps midwest and northeast thing.
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Old 29 September 2022, 02:11 AM   #27
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It is pretty sad we’ve got a whole generation of young people who, unless they won the parental lottery, will struggle to buy a home. This could make people angry, rootless, and less invested in their communities.

Housing being expensive everywhere is partly why I won’t bail on NYC. If you can get a 3/2 here for $7000/month why go elsewhere where it still costs $3500/month. The annual delta is 40 grand, which sucks but whatever.
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Old 29 September 2022, 02:46 AM   #28
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is there a reason why basements aren't a thing in california ... Aside from the lovely weather?

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Old 29 September 2022, 03:07 AM   #29
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Also I believe the need to dig below the frost line for foundations in the northeast makes it less of a splurge to go basement. You can’t just start building on some shallow footings like in warmer climates.
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Old 29 September 2022, 05:46 AM   #30
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Is there a reason why basements aren't a thing in California ... aside from the lovely weather?

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