Phantom Auto

[77T]

So...in the news a self driving car has had its first fatality. It made me think back to a CES 2018 story that I think we didn’t see here before.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/videos...ally-anywhere/

Now the self-driving Uber, Lyft or other service providers can subscribe to a “help desk” concept to have virtual drivers on-call. Like a remote drone operator concept but for self driving cars.

A carjacker’s dream methinks.


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[gettocard]

A plane crashes ,the cause of crash is found and the issue is fixed all over the world on all planes before anything else happens. Space Shuttles have exploded or disintegrated...it's part of the restless need of humans to build the future and a better world. Actually we should thank the USA for always being the first in testing new technologies that the whole world will benefit of later on.
My condolences to the victim's family.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Ok, I love all the tech stuff. But, what would the point of this be? It's still a human driving the car. I just don't see why I would want this technology. Maybe I'm missing something.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

Ok, I love all the tech stuff. But, what would the point of this be? It's still a human driving the car. I just don't see why I would want this technology. Maybe I'm missing something.

It is a bridge to having no driver behind the wheel. There are various legal issues that need to be sorted before it will happen but they need to test the technology thoroughly first, using a person as a safeguard.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by GB-man

It is a bridge to having no driver behind the wheel. There are various legal issues that need to be sorted before it will happen but they need to test the technology thoroughly first, using a person as a safeguard.

Makes sense. But, no human makes me hate it even more. I don't even like the idea of being on public transport or an airplane because I hate the idea of trusting some stranger. I guess just a product of growing up and living in a rural area.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by GB-man

It is a bridge to having no driver behind the wheel. There are various legal issues that need to be sorted before it will happen but they need to test the technology thoroughly first, using a person as a safeguard.

A bridge to the automaton taxi driver in Total Recall me thinks. Let’s call a Johnny Cab!

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

Ok, I love all the tech stuff. But, what would the point of this be? It's still a human driving the car. I just don't see why I would want this technology. Maybe I'm missing something.

I think the real money behind this is not necessarily cars, but the trucking industry. Driverless long haul trucks on the highway, eliminates the cost of drivers AND the big one, allows trucks to be driven 24/7 with no mandated stops for sleeping.

I think that’s where the big push is coming from.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I think the real money behind this is not necessarily cars, but the trucking industry. Driverless long haul trucks on the highway, eliminates the cost of drivers AND the big one, allows trucks to be driven 24/7 with no mandated stops for sleeping.

I think that’s where the big push is coming from.

Now that sounds like a worthy cause. You could be a work from home truck driver. Not bad.

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[TheVTCGuy]

From reading the news today it sounds like the pedestrian stepped right off the curb, not in a walkway and in front of an SUV traveling 40 miles an hour. Not trying to assess blame but it sounds like even if a human were operating that car the result would have been the same, and I dare say it would not have even made the news. From what I understand, something like 90% of all car crashes are human-fault. Will we still have fatalities and crashes with driver-less cars? Of course we will, but the theory is that number will be lowered by .... well, a lot.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

Now that sounds like a worthy cause. You could be a work from home truck driver. Not bad.

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You may be a work at home truck driver, unfortunately nobody is going to be paying you. That job will soon be gone, if you believe all the industry forecasts.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by Blansky

You may be a work at home truck driver, unfortunately nobody is going to be paying you. That job will soon be gone, if you believe all the industry forecasts.

True. But I think that will be awhile for 100% coverage. You still have rural areas like here. Chicken trucks, dump trucks, or small distribution centers that have to drive these mountain roads.

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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

True. But I think that will be awhile for 100% coverage. You still have rural areas like here. Chicken trucks, dump trucks, or small distribution centers that have to drive these mountain roads.

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Yeah, I think the push is long haul truckers.

[Blansky]

On one of the motorcycle forums on self driving cars there was talk about the priorities these cars take in the event of impending collisions.

They were programmed to hit the vehicle that causes the least amount of damage to itself. So if they had to swerve and hit a motorcycle or cyclist instead of collide with another car, they would hit whatever caused it the least damage.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Yeah, I think the push is long haul truckers.

They have something similar now - rail.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

They have something similar now - rail.

That works for me. But rail is slower and less flexible supposedly.

And thanks to Amazon, everyone wants stuff now.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

I always thought rail could've been so much better if it was originally built/laid out properly. One way tracks. Distribution buildings in central locations. Etc. I guess it can't really be fixed at this point.

[mtrunner]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Yeah, I think the push is long haul truckers.

It would be major cost savings if they could have driver less long haul trucks. Like you said, they can then travel 24/7. It still is a bit scary to think of all these automated cars on the road or at least until the technology is bulletproof.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by mtrunner

It would be major cost savings if they could have driver less long haul trucks. Like you said, they can then travel 24/7. It still is a bit scary to think of all these automated cars on the road or at least until the technology is bulletproof.

But it’s not scary to think about an 80,000 pound driverless truck?

[SDRider]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

From reading the news today it sounds like the pedestrian stepped right off the curb, not in a walkway and in front of an SUV traveling 40 miles an hour. Not trying to assess blame but it sounds like even if a human were operating that car the result would have been the same, and I dare say it would not have even made the news. From what I understand, something like 90% of all car crashes are human-fault. Will we still have fatalities and crashes with driver-less cars? Of course we will, but the theory is that number will be lowered by .... well, a lot.

From what I read the driverless car didn't even try to slow down or avoid the pedestrian which is unnerving to say the least. Plus, it was reportedly traveling 40mph in a 35mph zone.

[jhilly8982]

This is a great article about the reality of autonomous cars.

https://jalopnik.com/get-real-about-...ars-1823921109

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

But it’s not scary to think about an 80,000 pound driverless truck?

Yeah, reminds me of the old movie Duel.

Oh oh, I just cut off that truck and now its computer is gonna keep after me until......

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Yeah, reminds me of the old movie Duel.

Oh oh, I just cut off that truck and now its computer is gonna keep after me until......

In all this speculation about the cost savings of losing freight drivers, has anyone considered the one industry that would be perfect for this application isn’t using it? Rail.

The Jalopnik article seems to be on the money.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

In all this speculation about the cost savings of losing freight drivers, has anyone considered the one industry that would be perfect for this application isn’t using it? Rail.

The Jalopnik article seems to be on the money.

Yeah, rail would be a perfect fit.

Not positive on this but aren’t most passenger jets capable of being pilotless and most airports (not San Francisco) able to have planes land by computer. Obviously the pilots still do a lot of the work but I believe jets can both take off and land as well as follow a flight plan on autopilot. Not sure the public is ready for an empty cockpit though.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Yeah, rail would be a perfect fit.

Not positive on this but aren’t most passenger jets capable of being pilotless and most airports (not San Francisco) able to have planes land by computer. Obviously the pilots still do a lot of the work but I believe jets can both take off and land as well as follow a flight plan on autopilot. Not sure the public is ready for an empty cockpit though.

I used to do ATC in the Navy. I wasn't in long, but from what I learned about the FAA and being a controller I just don't see that happening anytime soon. If ATC needed to give an immediate specific command, I could see automation being a problem. Sometimes commands are given for anticipation, and not only immediate evasion. But could still be just as dangerous if not followed. But who knows, maybe we will see that.

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[77T]

Saw an interview of the Phantom Auto founder on CNBC. His model is anticipatory help desk functionality for the autonomous fleet operators.

One of the hurdles to autonomous vehicles (AV) are the unexpected problems like temporary road closures. Things like detours for temporary issues like repair construction, utility lane closures, etc. The way the programming works today is the AV stops and can’t move ahead without some assistance. This can cripple a fleet like Uber, Lyft, etc. because they don’t have the help needed to respond with a driver to the AV.

That’s where Phantom Auto comes into play. With a fleet operations contract and internet access, Phantom Auto responds with a remote driver who can operate the AV from a console.



It keeps the AV moving until the ambiguity issue is behind it, and then Phantom Auto returns the vehicle to its regular autonomous mode.


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[Rock]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

In all this speculation about the cost savings of losing freight drivers, has anyone considered the one industry that would be perfect for this application isn’t using it? Rail.

In Australia, governments have done everything in their power to kill off the Railway, which used to be the main means of moving freight. The Railways were public-owned and inefficient and the Trucking industry privately owned and very efficiency-focused.

The result has been inadequate public roads filled with heavy vehicles. The Trucking Industry, encouraged by governments, regard public roads as their domain and other road users as 'interlopers'.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 77T

Saw an interview of the Phantom Auto founder on CNBC. His model is anticipatory help desk functionality for the autonomous fleet operators.

One of the hurdles to autonomous vehicles (AV) are the unexpected problems like temporary road closures. Things like detours for temporary issues like repair construction, utility lane closures, etc. The way the programming works today is the AV stops and can’t move ahead without some assistance. This can cripple a fleet like Uber, Lyft, etc. because they don’t have the help needed to respond with a driver to the AV.

That’s where Phantom Auto comes into play. With a fleet operations contract and internet access, Phantom Auto responds with a remote driver who can operate the AV from a console.



It keeps the AV moving until the ambiguity issue is behind it, and then Phantom Auto returns the vehicle to its regular autonomous mode.


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How does that save money? Any idiot can drive a car. This guy will be a bonded and insured technician. There will need to be a bunch of them. And the system overheads will be high.

Wait until some a55hole hacks into it and mows down a crowd of people.

[77T]

The model, as he explained it, was that of a multilayer support system.

It starts with AV’s disintermediating the 1:1 driver ratio. Uber, Lyft, etc. are only getting a fraction of the passenger’s revenue because of the driver taking the lion’s share.

The next layer is new legislation that has just begun - an AV owner is now considered the violator in the case of traffic enforcement. Therefore the need to intervene when an AV has become confused and is blocking traffic and frustrating the passenger who is helpless to fix the problem.

So Phantom Auto becomes the help desk, if you will. The ratio of remote PA pilots would be 1:10 for example - using stats and risk algorithms the client and PA craft a contract with SLA’s. The cost is a fraction of the additional revenue gained by Uber, Lyft, etc. by disintermediating 1:1 drivers. And is also good assurance of cost avoidance via fewer incidents where fines would be imposed. PA makes money and so does the AV fleet owner.

On paper at least...it took a while for Mr. Wonderful (Kevin O'Leary ,who was part of the interview) to get the concept and see the profit model. But he gave PA resounding support once he realized the model worked financially.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 77T

The model, as he explained it, was that of a multilayer support system.

It starts with AV’s disintermediating the 1:1 driver ratio. Uber, Lyft, etc. are only getting a fraction of the passenger’s revenue because of the driver taking the lion’s share.

The next layer is new legislation that has just begun - an AV owner is now considered the violator in the case of traffic enforcement. Therefore the need to intervene when an AV has become confused and is blocking traffic and frustrating the passenger who is helpless to fix the problem.

So Phantom Auto becomes the help desk, if you will. The ratio of remote PA pilots would be 1:10 for example - using stats and risk algorithms the client and PA craft a contract with SLA’s. The cost is a fraction of the additional revenue gained by Uber, Lyft, etc. by disintermediating 1:1 drivers. And is also good assurance of cost avoidance via fewer incidents where fines would be imposed. PA makes money and so does the AV fleet owner.

On paper at least...it took a while for Mr. Wonderful (Kevin O'Leary ,who was part of the interview) to get the concept and see the profit model. But he gave PA resounding support once he realized the model worked financially.


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Uber is getting 20% commission on average for every ride now. And they don’t have to buy, maintain, or fuel any cars. Drivers aren‘t making enough after expenses to quit their day job.

Now, Uber has to buy all these specialized cars, which are going to cost quite a bit more each than the typical Uber car costs the existing drivers, then pay all the traditional operating and fleet maintenance costs, in addition to the Phantom system costs.

How is that a cost savings?

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Rock

In Australia, governments have done everything in their power to kill off the Railway, which used to be the main means of moving freight. The Railways were public-owned and inefficient and the Trucking industry privately owned and very efficiency-focused.

The result has been inadequate public roads filled with heavy vehicles. The Trucking Industry, encouraged by governments, regard public roads as their domain and other road users as 'interlopers'.

Exactly

Our infrastructure simply has not been able to keep up already. We’ve got a highway so full of pot holes that i counted more than five cars in a 15 mile stretch off the side of the road with flat tires from pot holes one day not long ago. Pot holes on a highway where people drive more than 80 miles an hour. Pot holes on a highway that belongs more in a third world country and not the USA. Wait, maybe the US is now a third world country.

Our infrastructure simply s***s and these heavy a** trucks don’t help it any.