My Tudor 7928 Sub Saga **Billjetpilot**

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by billjetpilot

Stevo, the only option you and your partner (Nicko) offered .......
Now please for the love of God, lock this thread.

No one made you an offer, neither Nicko or I, because you said right from the get go that you wouldn't do anything for 6 months.

Calling Nicko 'my partner' is just further evidence that you make statements without knowing the true facts, as you did when you said in your auction that the watch was in "GREAT CONDITION".

I know you want this thread closed, and that may have been your intention when you agreed to privately mediate this problem.

I don't know Nicko, he isn't my partner, it makes no difference to me what he gets if anyything at all.

What I am concerned about is whether you are genuine in seeking to resolve this situation, or not.

[arhant]

I really find it hard to believe that PayPal sided with the seller. It's usually an automatic for the buyer in these disputes. Read the Seller Central and PayPal forums on Ebay. I don't understand how the buyer lost a PayPal dispute?

[Lol-x]

Nicko initiated a dispute regarding receipt of the watch.
Upon receipt of the watch that dispute was cancelled.
Upon it being discovered that the watch was defective Nicko initiated a further dispute with PayPal. Paypal summarily dismissed that second dispute as it had according to it's rules already determined 'the dispute'.

One thing to be wary of is only cancel a paypal dispute is your are 100% happy with the situation, because paypal will not entertain a second dispute even if you have good cause for doing so.

[Earl Camembert]

There is one thing to be learned by this; a 100% positive feedback on eBay means nothing. Being a Top Grade A seller means nothing.

This is what the buyer left in the seller's feed back.

A great eBayer, one of the best. Thanks for all your help. Friendly and fast! Feb-03-10 13:02
■Reply by billjetpilot (Feb-07-10 12:12):
Thanks, and enjoy that vintage Rolex Tudor Submariner 7928.

ROLEX TUDOR SUBMARINER 7928 MANS WATCH (#260530390857)

That said one can not get a 5 year old watch cleaned by Rolex USA for $600.

[billjetpilot]

Maybe you should just stick to: "both the buyer and seller have yet to come to an agreement." This is what I would expect from a mediator. Did you intend to publish the outcome of this "mediation" from the beginning? Or maybe you are doing so to pressure me into the outcome you want.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by billjetpilot

Maybe you should just stick to: "both the buyer and seller have yet to come to an agreement." This is what I would expect from a mediator. Did you intend to publish the outcome of this "mediation" from the beginning? Or maybe you are doing so to pressure me into the outcome you want.

Stevo (lol-x) has no personal interest in either side. He evaluated the details of the transaction and stated his conclusions.

The bottom line is that your ad on eBay did not accurately reflect the condition of the watch, whether you were aware of it or not. The watch was not in 'great condition' as stated.... it was on the brink of failure. Most honorable sellers would take responsibility and either 1) accept a return for a full refund or 2) pay for the repair costs.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by billjetpilot

Maybe you should just stick to: "both the buyer and seller have yet to come to an agreement." This is what I would expect from a mediator. Did you intend to publish the outcome of this "mediation" from the beginning? Or maybe you are doing so to pressure me into the outcome you want.

If you knew anything about mediation you would have made a genuine attempt to resolve this matter. This is just more of your 'smokescreen' to divert the real issue.

Namely you received $2,500 by public auction for a watch that you said was in 'GREAT CONDITION', and notwithstanding there is clearly evidence to show that to be a false statement and you misled the seller, you nonetheless use the 'smokescreen' that PayPal could somehow do you an injustice by taking money out of your account when the claim has already been closed by PayPal.

You may have some feedback but maybe you have gotten away with things. Just because someone hasn't been caught out before doesn't mean they are clean.

When you say a watch is in 'GREAT CONDITION' what are you really saying? That you don't really know, but you'll say anything to make it sound good and encourage people to pay a higher price for it than they might otherwise??

That's what it sound like to me.

[billjetpilot]

The watch was in good working condition and Nicko agreed. He chose not to have it inspected. He broke his winding stem and now wants me to pay for a restoration. I did not offer any kind of warranty. Nicko chose to have Paypal resolve the issue, and they have.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by billjetpilot

The watch was in good working condition and Nicko agreed. He chose not to have it inspected. He broke his winding stem and now wants me to pay for a restoration. I did not offer any kind of warranty. Nicko chose to have Paypal resolve the issue, and they have.

"No warranty" - that's not true what about this:-

Originally Posted by billjetpilot

Refunds will only be given if the watch is found to be significantly different than the description

You described the watch as being in "GREAT CONDITION" do you still say it was in great condition?

And now you are saying "PayPal have resolved the issue" but a few hours ago you were saying it wont be resolved by PayPal for another 6 months.

You better make up your mind or at least try and get your 'story' straight.

[Lol-x]

Summary of excuses by billjetpilot to date:
1. The buyer was too quick to make a PayPal claim;
2. The buyer bought the watch 'as is';
3. The watch was according to the seller's belief in good condition;
4. The watch was sold without a warranty;
5. PayPal can still re-open the dispute over the next 6 months and remove money from the seller's account even though he has reached an agreement with the buyer.
6. Paypay determined the dispute in favour of the seller and that's bad luck for the innocent buyer who paid top bid on the seller stated basis of the watch being in 'great condition' at a public auction.
7. The seller has (had) a good sales history.
8. The buyer broke the winding stem and so the seller is not responsible at all for the appalling condition of the watch.
9. The seller agreed to mediate the dispute but refused to negotiate or make any genuine attempt to resolve the dispute.
10. The buyer choose not to immediately have the watch upon receipt inspected so the seller gets away with selling a watch with a misleading and false description.
11. The buyer is a liar but the seller isn't prepared to accept the watch back to see if what the buyer says is true.
12. The seller wore the watch for 3 months and it kept good time, so it cannot be defective.
13. The seller's watchmaker allegedly said no service of the watch was necessary based on point 12 above, so it can't have any problems.
14. The seller's watchmaker pressure tested the watch so the rust in the movement is not the sellers problem.


http://www.qrz.com/db/KB0ZPI

[billjetpilot]

The watch arrived in good working condition and Nicko agreed. It performed so well in fact, he chose not to have it inspected. A month later he broke his winding stem and now wants me to pay for a restoration. I did not offer any kind of warranty. Nicko chose to have Paypal resolve the issue, and they have. Had he come to me first, things might have turned out differently. Instead Nicko chose to attack me in public first and then try to negotiate later. It doesn't that way. I am under no oblgation to pay for a repair a month later especially after being treated so poorly. This was not a defective watch. I wore it daily for three months without a problem and it kept accurate time. My watch maker said no service was necessary because of the watch's performance. Sure Nicko's watchmaker says the watch is a basketcase, he has a lot to gain. But I simply don't believe him and of course sending the watch back to me to be serviced is out of the question. Maybe the watch isn't as bad as he claims and he is trying to hide that fact.

[billjetpilot]

Well, it has been interesting bantering with Nicko's attack dog, but ultimately, it is none of his business. This is between the seller, the buyer, eBay, and at Nicko's request, Paypal.

[Lol-x]

If you call being shown the facts being attacked, then you do have a problem.

And another fact is unless paypal forced you, you were never it now appears prepared to do anything to resolve this with Nicko in the first place.

[Nicko]

Let me publicly say that I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING BILL You win. Forget it, this is getting ridiculous. Thanks Steveo for everything you did for us by mediating this thread, I really do appreciate it, but this heartache is not worth it. I am paying for the service and the rest is history.

Bill, let me add that your language and accusations toward Steve are uncalled for, he did nothing more than try to mediate for the both of us, he was on neither side and totally impartial but the truth is hard to hide. You don't deserve to have even been answered to the majority of these posts and frankly IMO the only reason Steve hasn't banned you is because he didn't want to seem one sided, and furthermore didn't you say you weren't going to post anymore on this subject? Please be a man of your word for once. Now, take your money and I hope you have a great life.

[BASSETHOUNDS]

At least we got the figures right : Naf watch on Ebay: 2500 USD . Seller's integrity : 0 USD . Another seller to avoid !

[2careless]

Let's just say TRF gets indexed everyday by the search engines and if anyone has half a brain he/she can search using "Rolex" and the seller's ebay handle as search terms, and all will be revealed. Our discussions here are documented.

For the record attached is the ebay listing as retrieved today so everyone knows exactly what was offered in that listing.

[billjetpilot]

You published a link to my home address? Why did you do that Stevo? Nicko, eBay, and Paypal already have my address. Please remove it right away. This is uncalled for. There is no reason to do this and it reveals your true nature, a bully.

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by billjetpilot

You published a link to my home address? Why did you do that Stevo? Nicko, eBay, and Paypal already have my address. Please remove it right away. This is uncalled for. There is no reason to do this and it reveals your true nature, a bully.

Why do you worry about your address, it is under public view.

[BASSETHOUNDS]

Originally Posted by billjetpilot

You published a link to my home address? Why did you do that Stevo? Nicko, eBay, and Paypal already have my address. Please remove it right away. This is uncalled for. There is no reason to do this and it reveals your true nature, a bully.

Bullying ? No , one could call it informative or preventive action at the most . Personally , if your only arguments are based on Paypal ruling in favor of you ... we all know what the ethical values of paypal really stand for : GREED ! MONEY TODAY ! You may have won this little , easy enough to resolve dispute . I'm sure Steve "Nicko" would have been very happy if you had proposed just a little contribution towards the repair bill , more as for principle as for the financial side of it .
I'm sure that this will "cost" you much more in "lost future revenue" .
Call it bullying , call it what you will. I see it as poor salesman ship , poor business sense and even worse P.R.
Then you even got the nerve to insult the honorable attempts by Stevo to mediate in favor of both the short term interest of "Nicko" and your long term one . Well , good luck to you !

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by 2careless

Let's just say TRF gets indexed everyday by the search engines and if anyone has half a brain he/she can search using "Rolex" and the seller's ebay handle as search terms, and all will be revealed. Our discussions here are documented.

For the record attached is the ebay listing as retrieved today so everyone knows exactly what was offered in that listing.

I copied and pasted the listing to make it easier to read:

ROLEX TUDOR SUBMARINER 7928 MANS WATCH
Item number: 260530390857
Seller info
billjetpilot ( 243) 100% Positive feedback

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1



Offered for auction here is a beautiful pre-owned men’s Tudor 7928 rose submariner. The dial and hands have been professionally refinished. The watch was pressure tested to factory specs by my watchmaker and is 100% authentic Rolex Tudor. Comes on a black Maratac strap. This watch has a serial number dating it to 1964. It is a full size 40mm case in stainless steel. The watch is in great condition and is running strong with a classic and sought after Tudor caliber 390 movement. The watch does not come with box or papers, but it is guaranteed authentic Rolex Tudor or your money back. Check my feedback. Over the years I have sold many high end watches on Ebay such as Rolex, Omega, and Breitling all with 100% positive feedback.
As with all pre-owned vintage watches, this watch is sold as-is. Refunds will only be given if the watch is found to be significantly different than the description. It is guaranteed authentic Rolex Tudor or your money back. Contact me prior to bidding if you have zero feedback or negative feedback. I am a watch collector/enthusiast and not associated with Rolex Tudor in any way.

[springer]

Billjetpilot. Littleton, Colorado. Another ebay seller gone bad. Read this thread on The Rolex Forums. Watchout.

Here is the google link:

http://www.google.com/search?q=billj...ient=firefox-a

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by springer

Billjetpilot. Littleton, Colorado. Another ebay seller gone bad. Read this thread on The Rolex Forums. Watchout.

Here is the google link:

http://www.google.com/search?q=billj...ient=firefox-a

Billjetpilot from Littleton, Colorado has also been added to my personal 'do not buy' list.... and other potential buyers should be warned as well. Steve (Nicko) you may want to warn other enthusiasts on Watchnet, TimeZone, etc..... they have their own version of 'watchout' so others do not face your predicament in the future.

[Nicko]

I'm not a member on those forums, and I really don't care to be either. This clown has dug his own grave and has shown his true colours. I don't think many will buy his junk now anyway.
Fell free to post this on other forums, but I refuse to waste any more energy on this sad sack.

Originally Posted by onkyo

Billjetpilot from Littleton, Colorado has also een added to my personal 'do not buy' list.... and other potential buyers should be warned as well. Steve (Nicko) you may want to warn other enthusiasts on Watchnet, TimeZone, etc..... they have their own version of 'watchout' so others do not face your predicament in the future.

[arhant]

Billjetpilot clearly took advantage of the circumstances. Had Nicko not cancelled the PayPal dispute, he would have a full refund in hand. By canceling, he lost all of his 'protection'. Again, I will state that when selling on Ebay, it does not matter a whit what terms and conditions a seller includes in his listing. The Ebay/PayPal user agreement trumps all. That is how the seller was able to hang on to the payment.
Ebay is not a good venue for selling high dollar irems, IMO.

[Safetrends]

[QUOTE=billjetpilot;1699049]Stevo, the only option you and your partner (Nicko) offered was that I had to pay up now, or else. I have said "let the paypal thing play out first" then we can talk.

Now please for the love of God, lock this thread.QUOTE]

Why when you are getting so much attention for a sale on Ebay.

[sunburst]

Looks like Billjetpilot had the same watch on TZ classified as well.
On Dec. 27 (few days prior to Nicko's purchase on E-bay at $2,499) he reduced the price to
$2,200 on TZ classfied.
It makes more sense if Billjetpilot least pay $299 to Nicko.

[Nicko]

Wow, such a deal I got...I don't want his money, he can use is to buy some morals. Bill, you are truly one of a million sellers who take advantage of others luckily this doesn't hurt me I just hope you don't screw someone that it will.

Originally Posted by sunburst

Looks like Billjetpilot had the same watch on TZ classified as well.
On Dec. 27 (few days prior to Nicko's purchase on E-bay at $2,499) he reduced the price to
$2,200 on TZ classfied.
It makes more sense if Billjetpilot least pay $299 to Nicko.

[landroverking]

All I can say is this should have never gone this far, however we all now know another seller to avoid!!!!

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by landroverking

All I can say is this should have never gone this far, however we all now know another seller to avoid!!!!

I believe Steve was trying to give the seller a chance to make it right, however the seller would not budge and that is why it has gotten this far.


Anyone in business knows to treat the buyer better than this, it is called winning a battle however he is loosing a war, which, in the end will effect his business from now on.

[kooler]

Hello everybody. I'm a new member here and planning to buy a watch either in this forum or others. Upon reading this thread it is very clear to me to avoid this seller. I will just go with the proven sellers so as to avoid this very sad experience. Good luck Nicko.