SwissWatchExpo sold me a fake Daytona 116500 for $21,800

[forcinitijp]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Movement is fake.

Without violating forum rules: There is a website that sells a perfect fake movement for this watch that looks just like this.

Nobody assembled all these fake parts and installed a genuine movement. The whole thing is fake.

Dang it Adam. You are wrong telling people no one is producing high quality fake movements. These super fakes are in the market. People are spending hard earned money based on your advice. Quit giving bad advice.

the movement is not fake ... I was looking at the photo of the replica more than you say (noob) and the differences are very large

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

I agree.. I'd like to see what a true professional would say: Crowncollection, Springer, Freefly, or antrolexsub.

The watch is without a doubt fake, it’s the same watch shown in the ‘watchfinder’ video. Poor form on the seller for not spotting that. The crappy dial, hands and bezel should have set alarm bells ringing, the serif font ‘R’s in the ‘Units Per Hour’ on the bezel are a big giveaway.

Warranty card is fake.

The movement is either genuine or a modified with genuine parts clone 4130. It’s not a stock fake movement. This one I would need open in front of me to confirm. If the movement is a modified fake then its been fitted with a genuine main plate and genuine free sprung balance assembly/balance wheel at a minimum. Possibly genuine bridges and rotor. Difficult to see in the pictures. The fake 4130s don’t have serial numbers on the main plate, neither do they have a free sprung balance assembly.

Either way the watch is fake.

[Abdullah71601]

You guys really need to stop telling people that no one can fake a Rolex movement. Very high quality fakes are in the market place now.

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You guys really need to stop telling people that no one can fake a Rolex movement. Very high quality fakes are in the market place now.

The 3135 clones are not even close. Terrible finishing and they have a regulated balance assembly. The Chinese are yet to fake a free sprung balance, too costly and complex...at the moment. A real Rolex balance assembly and balance wheel will not fit on these movements. Incredibly easy to spot.

The 4130 clone is a different story. They come from China with a regulated balance. Easy to spot. But, these will take a real 4130 balance assembly and balance wheel. That’s where the problem lies, with a genuine Rolex balance assembly and main plate, these movements are very difficult to spot.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

The watch is without a doubt fake, it’s the same watch shown in the ‘watchfinder’ video. Poor form on the seller for not spotting that. The crappy dial, hands and bezel should have set alarm bells ringing, the serif font ‘R’s in the ‘Units Per Hour’ on the bezel are a big giveaway.

Warranty card is fake.

The movement is either genuine or a modified with genuine parts clone 4130. It’s not a stock fake movement. This one I would need open in front of me to confirm. If the movement is a modified fake then its been fitted with a genuine main plate and genuine free sprung balance assembly/balance wheel at a minimum. Possibly genuine bridges and rotor. Difficult to see in the pictures. The fake 4130s don’t have serial numbers on the main plate, neither do they have a free sprung balance assembly.

Either way the watch is fake.

Thanks. As you say.
The movement is genuine, Its not modified for all the reasons you state.
The rest is junk - yes including the warranty card

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by forcinitijp

the movement is not fake ... I was looking at the photo of the replica more than you say (noob) and the differences are very large

As I stated movement is surely genuine

Rest of watch is fake though

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Thanks. As you say.
The movement is genuine, Its not modified for all the reasons you state.
The rest is junk - yes including the warranty card

What do you mean? The reasons I stated are why it couldbe a modified clone, not why it couldn’t.

Throw a genuine main plate, all genuine bridges/rotor and a complete balance assembly, balance wheel, pallet fork and escape wheel on one these clones and 99% percent of people wouldn’t be able to spot it without stripping it down, me included. Far cheaper to do that than to source and fit it with a genuine movement. It’s possible it is a genuine movement, but without stripping it down you won’t know.

[crazymcmichael]

Whatever it is... Fact is that this watch has got into the market and i am sure a lot of people would not spot this one.. It is scary enough that this kind of replica's are showing up now..
TS: How was the precision on this watch? Was it COSC?

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by gladiator

thanks. As you say.
The movement is genuine, its not modified for all the reasons you state.
The rest is junk - yes including the warranty card

Originally Posted by gladiator

as i stated movement is surely genuine

rest of watch is fake though

stop!!

images.jpg

[GLADIATOR]

And FYI
Serial number is known FAKE
And still for sale here:
https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/watch...Box-Card-22524
A

[antrolexsub]

They have another fake for sale. Stock pictures for image 1,2 and 3. See pictures from image 3.

https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/watch...s-116500-22697

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

And FYI
Serial number is known FAKE
A

Well it is now

These things have random sequential serials, they’re individual, no two are the same. These aren’t $20 market stall fakes.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

I just don’t get that.
Why would anyone go through such trouble to fake a watch but include a genuine movement?

he has speculated on that before and i believe him

My take is this.... you can sell two watches sourced from one. IE put a fake movement in a real case and put a real movement in a fake case.

Anyone suspicious of a fake case can open it up and have their worries alleviated by a real movement. The real case, why open it at all to see the fake movement?

Thats my theory

buy one at retail you are in at 12,400 USD. sell two for 22k each and you still made a lot of money

[Blakerhodes]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

They have another fake for sale. Stock pictures for image 1,2 and 3. See pictures from image 3.

https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/watch...s-116500-22697

This is my point. How many of these watches has this particular company sold as real for over $20k and what are they going to do for their past customers that got scammed. When I asked that , their reply was this was a one time thing....riiiiiggggghhhht!!! Feel awful for the people wearing fake Daytonas they have surely scammed, they will go to Rolex in a few years for service and find out it’s fake.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

he has speculated on that before and i believe him

My take is this.... you can sell two watches sourced from one. IE put a fake movement in a real case and put a real movement in a fake case.

Anyone suspicious of a fake case can open it up and have their worries alleviated by a real movement. The real case, why open it at all to see the fake movement?

Thats my theory

Correct.
Last bastion of authenticity was the movement.
That’s no longer true or the case.
That watch is fake externally but most just go on the movement.
If that’s good watch is good.
Many dealers are now selling these.
A

[crazymcmichael]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Correct.
Last bastion of authenticity was the movement.
That’s no longer true or the case.
That watch is fake externally but most just go on the movement.
If that’s good watch is good.
Many dealers are now selling these.
A

So now buying AD only option ???

[GLADIATOR]

No
Buying from A safe source with bricks and mortar.
eBay give great buyer protection too
But
Buying any SS Rolex Watch is now a very difficult job.
I know I buy or loan on about 10/week.
If it’s SS and modern there is a high chance it’s fake.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

he has speculated on that before and i believe him

My take is this.... you can sell two watches sourced from one. IE put a fake movement in a real case and put a real movement in a fake case.

Anyone suspicious of a fake case can open it up and have their worries alleviated by a real movement. The real case, why open it at all to see the fake movement?

Thats my theory

buy one at retail you are in at 12,400 USD. sell two for 22k each and you still made a lot of money

Thanks so much. I can see that happening.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Movement is fake.

Without violating forum rules: There is a website that sells a perfect fake movement for this watch that looks just like this.

Nobody assembled all these fake parts and installed a genuine movement. The whole thing is fake.

Dang it Adam. You are wrong telling people no one is producing high quality fake movements. These super fakes are in the market. People are spending hard earned money based on your advice. Quit giving bad advice.

Having fun a major fraud investigation operation, this makes more sense to me

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Having fun a major fraud investigation operation, this makes more sense to me

And that is exactly what I am doing with Rolex
Indeed the term ZOMBIE is theirs.

I

[123Blueface]

Whatever the case regarding the movement, I think we can all agree on “holy crap”. This is scary.

[GLADIATOR]

Yes it is.

[Razorsedge1]

Thanks for the heads up. Bought a watch from them several years ago without issue. I have been looking at some 1980s President Day-Dates on their website, but think I will find another option.

[tigey]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

This is correct.
Genuine movement - rest is fake, case, bracelet, dial and cards.
adam

As we have seen from the watchfinder vid these fakes are so good now and even clone the 4130 movement so well. I think the movement is a fake 4130 with genuine parts installed like the rotor etc..Im not a watchsmith but I think the wheels and "upper bridge" (sorry i dont know the terminology) can be swapped to the fake 4130 giving even a trained eye the deception that the movement is 100% real. Add a genuine dial and hands and the watch will fool almost anybody. In fact if the watch ran and kept time the owner would believe that this frankenstein fake/real watch was 100% real until sent to RSC. Why would anyone swap a real 4130 into a fake watch, when most people will never see it?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

And FYI
Serial number is known FAKE
And still for sale here:
https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/watch...Box-Card-22524
A

Well reported and removed from eBay!

[returntorolex]

Need to blow the whistle on these cheesy shylocks hawking crap - some will even offer to finance these dodgy examples! BE GONE!

[edweather]

I think the OP got a quick refund to keep the heat away. SWE must know what they're selling.

[erhein]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

he has speculated on that before and i believe him

My take is this.... you can sell two watches sourced from one. IE put a fake movement in a real case and put a real movement in a fake case.

Anyone suspicious of a fake case can open it up and have their worries alleviated by a real movement. The real case, why open it at all to see the fake movement?

Thats my theory

buy one at retail you are in at 12,400 USD. sell two for 22k each and you still made a lot of money

Can't find a flaw in this reasoning.

[Blakerhodes]

Originally Posted by edweather

I think the OP got a quick refund to keep the heat away. SWE must know what they're selling.

I had a return label in my inbox to ship the watch back before I even left the Rolex service center. There is zero doubt in my mind they knew they were selling a fake watch. And as somebody mentioned above , there are possibly other fakes on their site currently for sale. This wasn’t the first time

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Blakerhodes

I had a return label in my inbox to ship the watch back before I even left the Rolex service center. There is zero doubt in my mind they knew they were selling a fake watch. And as somebody mentioned above , there are possibly other fakes on their site currently for sale. This wasn’t the first time

Report them to the fbi or proper authority if so.