ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
30 June 2018, 07:59 AM | #61 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 215
|
Quote:
Also, really helpful to know where you were coming from RE your decision and the specifics surrounding it. I think that helps take the mystery out of the situation and also helps others to understand which points are and are not relevant to them. I also can see why you were reluctant to say anything as to explain quite a bit of detail--much of which very situation specific. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk |
|
30 June 2018, 09:44 AM | #62 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Monaco
Posts: 123
|
That was indeed a very detailed and thoughtful reply, thank you!
You didn't "owe" it, but as I and others said, it was good to hear your thought process and "journey" in the detail you provided, so thank you. I love FPJ for that "magic", Patek for the "history" (and their grand complications), and Lange for the "German finishing"... so to be honest, Lange is never a bad choice... best of luck acquriring it! As for FPJ... Mr Journe does want his watches serviced by his factory which I'm perfectly fine with. I don't even have an AD in my country and have never had issues servicing it (I do travel a lot, so I go out of my way to drop it into a boutique when its needed and tend to service multiple watches at the same time). For me, I only get Lange and Patek to service my watches so I don't have an issue with FPJ using specific screws as I choose to send each of these brands back home every 5 years... after all, they are significant items so when it comes to servicing, I want the best people working on them. Thanks once again for sharing your thoughts! Personally, this movement is what I mean by "magic" (courtesy of Deployant): |
30 June 2018, 01:04 PM | #63 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: California
Posts: 200
|
Quote:
Good luck saving up for that Lange 1 Moon. That's definitely a grail watch for me, too. |
|
5 July 2018, 09:19 AM | #64 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: up a hill
Posts: 1,662
|
Quote:
I don't live in Canada, so don't know about your import laws, but I would have thought it would be shipped marked "goods for service" on the way out and "goods returned from service" with attached invoice on the return leg. Import Duty shouldn't figure as you haven't imported anything. P.S. I'd choose the FPJ. I have the same 5146G you were considering, and it's great, but I'd rather have that Journe. |
|
6 July 2018, 06:40 AM | #65 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: EUR
Posts: 487
|
Indeed, removing the hands is literally the first thing that happens after the movement is out of the case for servicing.
|
6 July 2018, 08:04 AM | #66 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Watch: '62 Speedmaster
Posts: 63
|
First I must say, I love Patek. But, given the two choices that are mentioned here.....Journe, the hands down winner!
|
6 July 2018, 05:03 PM | #67 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,823
|
|
7 July 2018, 01:44 AM | #68 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: up a hill
Posts: 1,662
|
Quote:
FPJ is rumoured to be egotistical, but in fact according to close friends he's quite a shy man who does not seek the limelight, he's far too busy innovating. This natural diffidence, plus his inability to speak English, sometimes come across as brusque. OTOH, I don't think he's a man who suffers fools gladly, either. As to the finish of his watches, well have a look at the photo upthread, simply breathtaking. |
|
9 July 2018, 10:36 PM | #69 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: @jb.watching
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,471
|
Quote:
Paul. Appreciate the feedback here and thanks for sharing the process with us. The real point of this threads is to inform the OP but the secondary benefit is to inform others about the thought process of other collectors and of course the sharing of information which may be valuable to others in their search. The beauty of our little hobby is that tastes differ, and fortunately there's something out there for everyone! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
9 July 2018, 10:54 PM | #70 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Real Name: Louis
Location: Bay Area, CA
Watch: PP 5131R
Posts: 4,829
|
Quote:
He let me actuate his personal minute repeater and hung out with a bunch of dingy watch nerds and explained the thinking and innovations behind some of the pieces his customers had brought with them. |
|
10 July 2018, 08:20 AM | #71 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 647
|
Have met FP a few times (NYC and Geneva) and he's always been cordial and loved to answer questions about his (and other watches).
As a matter of fact, in Geneva, he actually stopped working, got up from his workstation, and walked my wife and I around to meet the other watchmakers... including the watchmaker who put my CS together start to finish. Very cool experience. |
10 July 2018, 03:08 PM | #72 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 100 Acre Wood
Posts: 959
|
Was never a fan of that particular Patek.
I'd go for the FPJ, but I would certainly go for a Lange 1, Lange 1 MP, or an 1815 Chrono over either of those watches--- albeit quite different. |
10 July 2018, 09:33 PM | #73 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Real Name: Neil
Location: UK
Watch: ing ships roll in
Posts: 59,270
|
|
10 July 2018, 09:53 PM | #74 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Dr Mark R Nail
Location: New Albany
Watch: Tudor Sub 75090
Posts: 8,066
|
Fpj
__________________
------------------------------- Member of the Nylon Nation |
12 July 2018, 06:55 AM | #75 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,905
|
There may be a touch of harmless trolling going on as FPJ is a step above Patek.
Don't believe me? Well, look at the beautifully finished FPJ posted above and look at this Patek... http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=0#msg_7391761 And then look at who posted that picture. And that's why I mention a touch of trolling, just a little fun being had. Of course, people should choose whatever they love. But, in terms of the reasoning given, eh well... I don't mean to say that all Pateks are like that one, they are mostly excellently finished, although this is more true for their grand complications than it is for a base level nautilus or calatrava (both of which have stamped dials, so that's another null point). But FPJ is a step up and ALS is widely thought to be one of the very best mass produced high end watch brands. |
12 July 2018, 01:43 PM | #76 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Monaco
Posts: 123
|
Quote:
|
|
12 July 2018, 10:33 PM | #77 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 26,846
|
Both are amazing,but Patek for me.
|
18 July 2018, 07:56 AM | #78 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 990
|
The sales director at the Paris Boutique confirmed to me that their watches are hand finished.
Not sure from where the idea of machine finish came from. FPJ makes less than a 1000 watches per year v/s PP who does tens of thousands per year. It seems logic to me that FPJ has a higher level of hand finished products IMHO. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
18 July 2018, 12:16 PM | #79 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,905
|
Kinda seems like bigfatpauli might have been posting things he knew were wrong. From hand finishing to servicing, Patek has issues.
So, for people reading this who are new to haute horology, the amount of hand work involved is a big deal. It's hard to overstate that, even as modern machine techniques make it easier to do work that's almost, but not quite, as nice. It can seem like people are arguing over tiny distinctions (and they are!) but these things mean the difference between something done by hand versus just automated machine. The latter is cool, of course. Look at Rolex! But, if your reputation is built on one thing and you do it the cheap way now, then it's not so good *cough*Patek*cough* Take anglage, which is the finish at the vertical ends of the mainplates. Look at the FPJ movement pictured a few posts up. The vertical ends of the plates have a mirror-like finish. You can only get that by hand. What if you just use machine finishing, which is cheaper and, well, doesn't require that skill and art that ties the watch on our wrist to generations of master watchmakers of the past? You get vertical striping on your anglage. Like here. On a Patek Phillippe perpetual calendar. This is no entry level watch (and entry level FPJs all have the same excellent hand finishing that all their high complication models do). Anyway, Patek Phillippe now just churns out this stuff, look and you can see the same machine finishing that bigfatpauli had posted on another watch website: Vintage Patek, when mostly you had a closed caseback, still had a lot of handwork, because they did it right. Now, they make 10X the watches. For those of you who own a modern Patek, please don't be offended. They are still excellent, my point is just to look at things clearly. Still a lot to love. |
26 July 2018, 02:26 PM | #80 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 25
|
From a purely aesthetic standpoint, definitely the FPJ. Not the most beautiful of an option for the Patek. The simplicity of the FPJ is just classic.
|
26 July 2018, 02:52 PM | #81 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: gus
Location: East Coast
Watch: APK & sometimes Y
Posts: 26,021
|
Close decision between the two.
Prefer the look of the Patek. Prefer the movment of the journe. I own a journe chrono blue and a Patek PC. If the Patek had a 240 movement I would chose that. Most significant is the size difference between the two, the journe appearing much bigger because of the white dial.
__________________
|
29 July 2018, 03:48 AM | #82 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: Tom
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Watch: I give up..
Posts: 719
|
thank you to BigFatPauli for posting the detailed response.
|
29 July 2018, 04:32 AM | #83 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: gus
Location: East Coast
Watch: APK & sometimes Y
Posts: 26,021
|
Quote:
as you point out, Having a local AD and service available is essential for many reasons (straps, buckles, trying on, service and a local relationship), i don't believe i could resolve this concern if i had to make the same choice. reminds me of when i chose a motorcycle to travel across north america, many are capable but only two brands i know of have a comprehensive support system of dealers for the inevitable servicing needs of a long trip. the comments re servicing issues you described regarding the Journe are very similar to those you might find with Patek, ie no one else should work on either of those watches than they themselves. i have no particular issue with the construction of hands per se, i think journe is noted for his unconventional approach to challenges and this sounds more like that to me than ego or spite. as far as cartier stepping in to help with your lange, you have identified an upside to big watch shop brands, however independents just won't have this opportunity, i wouldn't rule them out because of this. of the 3 brands mentioned, patek, lange and journe, they each have some models that are appealing however none of them have more than a few models that make me look twice. (stratospheric options aside) what i do like about journes designs is he maintains a respect for the thickness of the watch, this is something i am particularly appreciative of as many other manufacturers have an utter disregard for the daily routine of wearing sleeves. ps. as far as journes arrogance, maybe hes just being french?
__________________
|
|
29 July 2018, 06:22 AM | #84 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Odenton, MD
Posts: 16
|
Based on looks, I'd (quickly) select the Journe. I love Journe's signature hands and numerals. I find their watches to be quirky and interesting and appreciate the fact that non-WIS will not recognize the brand. I'll leave factors such as cost and value retention to you.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk |
3 August 2018, 05:46 PM | #85 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Not 2 far from u
Posts: 3,457
|
FPJ based on looks between those 2.
__________________
Official Member "WIS-CON" Las Vegas International GTG 2017 Official Member "WIS-CON" Las Vegas International GTG 2018 |
3 August 2018, 09:15 PM | #86 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: usa
Watch: A few
Posts: 140
|
Not a FPJ fan so I would go with Patek but that FPJ looks really good here.
|
16 April 2019, 04:39 PM | #87 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Tony
Location: England
Posts: 5,425
|
I have bumped this thread, as I find myself in the same position.
I found the thread most interesting and in fact instead of helping me decide has made the decision more difficult. I have owned both Marques. The 5146J was my first Patek and one that I wished had kept. However the Fp Journe that I had - Calendrier, I regretted selling more or less straight away and always said that one day I would get a CS. My heart says FP Journe My Head says Patek Philippe. My one concern with Journe, is who will continue you to service it after he has retired and will parts still be available? We all know that with Patek that will not happen. Have opinions changed?
__________________
|
16 April 2019, 05:15 PM | #88 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 113
|
The Journe wins here
|
16 April 2019, 08:32 PM | #89 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 3,914
|
|
16 April 2019, 11:10 PM | #90 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: gus
Location: East Coast
Watch: APK & sometimes Y
Posts: 26,021
|
Both great watches.
If it is an everyday watch for me it has to be an automatic. That leaves the Patek. Ps I have a similar pair. Chrono bleu & Patek PC. The Patek gets more wrist time.
__________________
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.