Cryptocurrency, who has it?

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by chadwick4eva

Let me guess- you are also convinced that the USA is the next Venezuela or Cuba? If so, check out the show "doomsday preppers."

"The collapse of the US is nigh, everyone, a new world order is forming and it's all based on bitcoin! Trust me!"

Puh-leaze... the US and the dollar are going to be fine.

Oh well, four months was a good run.

[EEpro]

2 weeks ago I noticed PayPal offering crypto trading and holding. For a brief moment I considered throwing cash at it for fun and then immediately realized that my own interest in it is a contrarian indicator of the peak.

[KrismanX]

Since Covid I’ve been messing with EV stocks and they’re awesome. TSLA, NIO and GM working well so far!

[Uggi]

Originally Posted by KrismanX

Since Covid I’ve been messing with EV stocks and they’re awesome. TSLA, NIO and GM working well so far!

You know this is the cryptocurrency thread?

[Uggi]

Originally Posted by chadwick4eva

Let me guess- you are also convinced that the USA is the next Venezuela or Cuba? If so, check out the show "doomsday preppers."

"The collapse of the US is nigh, everyone, a new world order is forming and it's all based on bitcoin! Trust me!"

Puh-leaze... the US and the dollar are going to be fine.

He asked a good question though. How do you think the US (and others) will deal with their mammoth debt burden? Would you acknowledge that repeated QE will have inflationary effects and that inflationary effects will be difficult to manage with the usual interest rate hikes? That is a backdrop which at least makes a finite currency resource such as Bitcoin interesting isn't it? Which is probably why PayPal and major banks are taking it seriously and why its biggest critics such as JP Morgan have had to admit to being wrong.
I think you have dismissed his point out of hand without really thinking about it. "We'll be fine" is not really an answer.

[TC94]

Originally Posted by chadwick4eva

All cryptos tanked 15% overnight. Wouldn't be surprised to see it crash hard in the next few days. Maybe people are finally realizing they've been duped by some conspiracy theory about a "new world reserve currency" and that the "dollar is going to be replaced by crypto." It is a digital commodity and clearly a volatile one at that.

The shear number of crypto scams on youtube is astounding. Usually goes something like "So and so trader made me $50k profit on $5k bitcoin investment," dm me on snapchat/instagram. They also have their own comment and bot armies who give 50+ upvotes with a bunch of validating comments "oh yeah that person made me so much money," etc.

It’s not a conspiracy, scam or new world order.

It’s a useful tool that will see adoption based on its own merits. Pointing out the huge number of scams on YouTube doesn’t make the underlying technology a scam.

Plenty of scams have been perpetrated using all forms of currencies over the centuries.

[gabrielnovar]

As someone who was onboard crypto for a while I have began to realize its all smoke and mirrors and just pumping to cash out before the next.

The technology is sound, but no way anyone can hold bitcoin. the issue is storage not the wild swings.

Fools can only sign into a tik tok app and take a vid. they aren't capable of being their own bank which is why this stuff is doomed. It needs to be simple so an insta influencer can shill to their people. HOWEVER simple and secure don't go together.

[chadwick4eva]

Originally Posted by Uggi

He asked a good question though. How do you think the US (and others) will deal with their mammoth debt burden? Would you acknowledge that repeated QE will have inflationary effects and that inflationary effects will be difficult to manage with the usual interest rate hikes? That is a backdrop which at least makes a finite currency resource such as Bitcoin interesting isn't it? Which is probably why PayPal and major banks are taking it seriously and why its biggest critics such as JP Morgan have had to admit to being wrong.
I think you have dismissed his point out of hand without really thinking about it. "We'll be fine" is not really an answer.

That's a great question- at this point the US is essentially a "zombie company" that will never be able to actually pay down its debt but rather only be able to service its interest and not pay down any principal year to year. And I don't want to get political but if you look at the direction the country's debt burden over the past 30-40 years its clear that neither side of the aisle has taken the debt burden seriously. Increased spending, tax cuts, not letting the free market decide who is a winner and who is a loser, etc, etc. From an investment standpoint one could argue this business is incredibly mismanaged!

So what can businesses/governments do in this scenario to deal with the large amount of debt:
1) Increase revenues- raise taxes
2) Decrease spending- not really sure how this is an option, we barely have any social safety nets compared to other developed nations, our education system is mediocre and the best talent, for the most part, goes to private industry. Understandably so as its far more lucrative. Also, our infrastructure is crumbling and needs significant CapEx investment- midwest roads represent!
3) Declare bankruptcy/restructure- probably not going to happen...
4) Raise more money by issuing more debt- this is the path that we've been taking for years and years- the good 'ol kick the can down the road strategy.

Relative to other world currencies- I am not worried about the dollar. Covid beat us up a little bit this year and its showing in what the world thinks of the value of our currency. But this too, shall pass. The potential for socioeconomic upward mobility in the USA is about as good as it gets anywhere in the world. Go to school, do well and get a valuable skillset- whether that be for a skilled trade or for some form of higher education/ advanced degrees, go out into the world and succeed. Diligently invest your money over time into profitable businesses and you'll be able to afford a house, family, kids, and hopefully a rolex or two

A few other issues with digital commodities that I have:
a) You cannot make it into something that gives it more intrinsic value. At least in the case of gold as a reserve currency you can use that gold to create something of higher value. A gold watch, a part of a semiconductor, a piece of jewelry, etc. What can bitcoin do that allows people to extract more value from it?
b) Anyone can create their own digital currency, declare that its incredibly valuable and will make you a millionaire, and sell it. Sounds kind of like a pyramid/ponzi scheme, no? Get as many other people to buy in and then yank the carpet out from underneath them.

[chadwick4eva]

Originally Posted by gabrielnovar

As someone who was onboard crypto for a while I have began to realize its all smoke and mirrors and just pumping to cash out before the next.

The technology is sound, but no way anyone can hold bitcoin. the issue is storage not the wild swings.

Fools can only sign into a tik tok app and take a vid. they aren't capable of being their own bank which is why this stuff is doomed. It needs to be simple so an insta influencer can shill to their people. HOWEVER simple and secure don't go together.

Yes- blockchain technology has value. Especially in the worlds of finance, supply chains, and logistics it has inherent value.

[Paul7]

Originally Posted by chadwick4eva

That's a great question- at this point the US is essentially a "zombie company" that will never be able to actually pay down its debt but rather only be able to service its interest and not pay down any principal year to year. And I don't want to get political

I don't think you did get political in this post, and I think we can discuss these issues without getting partisan.

but if you look at the direction the country's debt burden over the past 30-40 years its clear that neither side of the aisle has taken the debt burden seriously. Increased spending, tax cuts, not letting the free market decide who is a winner and who is a loser, etc, etc. From an investment standpoint one could argue this business is incredibly mismanaged!

So what can businesses/governments do in this scenario to deal with the large amount of debt:
1) Increase revenues- raise taxes

Which will crush the economy, and is not guaranteed to raise revenues. Tax increases often reduce revenue, just as tax cuts can increase revenue due to a stimulated economy. The point is, we can't tax our way out of the debt hole we've dug.

2) Decrease spending- not really sure how this is an option, we barely have any social safety nets compared to other developed nations, our education system is mediocre and the best talent, for the most part, goes to private industry.

There are lots of areas to cut the federal budget, the problem is most of our spending is for entitlements, which politicians of both parties don't seem to want to tackle. As for education spending, I've yet to see proof more spending on education corelates to better educational outcomes.

Understandably so as its far more lucrative. Also, our infrastructure is crumbling and needs significant CapEx investment- midwest roads represent!
3) Declare bankruptcy/restructure- probably not going to happen...

IMHO that is our main option, that or continuing to devalue the dollar, which has lost something like 96% of it's value the last century. I think that trend will accelerate, not stop.

4) Raise more money by issuing more debt- this is the path that we've been taking for years and years- the good 'ol kick the can down the road strategy.

Relative to other world currencies- I am not worried about the dollar. Covid beat us up a little bit this year and its showing in what the world thinks of the value of our currency. But this too, shall pass. The potential for socioeconomic upward mobility in the USA is about as good as it gets anywhere in the world. Go to school, do well and get a valuable skillset- whether that be for a skilled trade or for some form of higher education/ advanced degrees, go out into the world and succeed. Diligently invest your money over time into profitable businesses and you'll be able to afford a house, family, kids, and hopefully a rolex or two

If our historical free enterprise system continues, which many want to change.

A few other issues with digital commodities that I have:
a) You cannot make it into something that gives it more intrinsic value. At least in the case of gold as a reserve currency you can use that gold to create something of higher value. A gold watch, a part of a semiconductor, a piece of jewelry, etc. What can bitcoin do that allows people to extract more value from it?
b) Anyone can create their own digital currency, declare that its incredibly valuable and will make you a millionaire, and sell it. Sounds kind of like a pyramid/ponzi scheme, no? Get as many other people to buy in and then yank the carpet out from underneath them.

Yet the government can create dollars by the trillion backed by absolutely nothing and that isn't a pyramid/ponzi scheme? Are you aware of the number of fiat currencies that have failed in the past?

[Paul7]

Originally Posted by chadwick4eva

Let me guess- you are also convinced that the USA is the next Venezuela or Cuba?

Let me guess, you think it could never happen there? That's what they thought in Venezuela and Cuba, two formerly very prosperous nations, before the AOC types took power. Have we ever seen mobs of violent anarchists take control of major US cities for months like we did this year?

If so, check out the show "doomsday preppers."

Who probably had no toilet paper shortage this past year, unlike many others.

"The collapse of the US is nigh, everyone, a new world order is forming and it's all based on bitcoin! Trust me!"

Puh-leaze... the US and the dollar are going to be fine.

This is the fallacy knows as the 'bias for normal'.

Other nations have far greater acceptance of cryptocurrencies, less so here because of the desire to keep the USD as the world's reserve currency.

[KrismanX]

Originally Posted by Uggi

You know this is the cryptocurrency thread?

Thanks Mod.

[AshCashEmAll]

I Venmo everyone or use my credit card for almost everything. Isn’t that all digital currency? Representations of numbers paying down other numbers instantaneously through the power of tech. I don’t use cash really for anything so I’m a believer of digital currency. It’s the future and I like the concept of some of them especially XRP. Who knows maybe it’ll all be worthless some day?! For the time being I throw money at it and hopefully it’ll pay off.


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[mariopepper]

I used to have crypto before.. it brought me enough money several years ago..
My story started back in 2012 when I first heard about cryptocurrency. I was studying in university by IT-program and I guess you can't imagine the student who didn't want to participate in crypto-related business. I was really intereted in all this stuff, especially after the situation when my bestie invested his monthly sellery into bitcoin. It was a big suprise for me, because I was afraid to invest.. finally he convinced me to try and I bought 0,15 btc back then. It brought me enough money to pay for university study later :) I've made a right decision back then. I also have had an idea to buy some btc or litecoin one more time. I've checked this bitcoin wallet if someone is interested. I'm not sure yet, should I choose online wallet or no.. But I also know that btc is gonna to grow up again in 2021 so it's time to decide for me

[Mifune]

Originally Posted by AshCashEmAll

I Venmo everyone or use my credit card for almost everything. Isn’t that all digital currency? Representations of numbers paying down other numbers instantaneously through the power of tech. I don’t use cash really for anything so I’m a believer of digital currency. It’s the future and I like the concept of some of them especially XRP. Who knows maybe it’ll all be worthless some day?! For the time being I throw money at it and hopefully it’ll pay off.

I'm not calling you personally out, but its a common idea from the uninitiated that most have similar ideas as yours when it comes to understanding crypto currency in general.

While using a credit card or other bank issued payment system is a digital transaction and the accounting thereof is conducted digitally, this is MOST CERTAINLY not a cryptocurrency and in fact is the furthest thing away from crypto that can be without actually being fiat currency.

In as far a XRP, and other remittance systems, they exist to act as a lubricant between to established users that may be in different financial markets. It isn't a value play even though it does retain some assemblage of value because of the fluctuating token price.

The token isn't deflationary like bitcoin and it is NOT decentralized like many other blockchain enterprises are either. It exists to service established CENTRALIZED banking institutions.

I can write more on this later if it interests you.

Suffice to say that there are myriads of different case use coins and tokens that inhabit specialized niches in the crypto currency world and IMHO it is best to invest in the ones that have actual utility... XRP does at least have that.

[AshCashEmAll]

Originally Posted by Mifune

I'm not calling you personally out, but its a common idea from the uninitiated that most have similar ideas as yours when it comes to understanding crypto currency in general.

While using a credit card or other bank issued payment system is a digital transaction and the accounting thereof is conducted digitally, this is MOST CERTAINLY not a cryptocurrency and in fact is the furthest thing away from crypto that can be without actually being fiat currency.

In as far a XRP, and other remittance systems, they exist to act as a lubricant between to established users that may be in different financial markets. It isn't a value play even though it does retain some assemblage of value because of the fluctuating token price.

The token isn't deflationary like bitcoin and it is NOT decentralized like many other blockchain enterprises are either. It exists to service established CENTRALIZED banking institutions.

I can write more on this later if it interests you.

Suffice to say that there are myriads of different case use coins and tokens that inhabit specialized niches in the crypto currency world and IMHO it is best to invest in the ones that have actual utility... XRP does at least have that.

Wow appreciate the explanation. Glad I at least picked one that has a purpose. If you could write more it does actually interest me or pm that works too.


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[chadwick4eva]

Originally Posted by Mifune

I'm not calling you personally out, but its a common idea from the uninitiated that most have similar ideas as yours when it comes to understanding crypto currency in general.

While using a credit card or other bank issued payment system is a digital transaction and the accounting thereof is conducted digitally, this is MOST CERTAINLY not a cryptocurrency and in fact is the furthest thing away from crypto that can be without actually being fiat currency.

In as far a XRP, and other remittance systems, they exist to act as a lubricant between to established users that may be in different financial markets. It isn't a value play even though it does retain some assemblage of value because of the fluctuating token price.

The token isn't deflationary like bitcoin and it is NOT decentralized like many other blockchain enterprises are either. It exists to service established CENTRALIZED banking institutions.

I can write more on this later if it interests you.

Suffice to say that there are myriads of different case use coins and tokens that inhabit specialized niches in the crypto currency world and IMHO it is best to invest in the ones that have actual utility... XRP does at least have that.

What is the "actual utility" of cryptocurrencies you are talking about?

[Mifune]

Originally Posted by chadwick4eva

What is the "actual utility" of cryptocurrencies you are talking about?

well... there are many niches.
not limited to, but there are:
remittance tokens (XRP, Swift)
blockchain infrastructure (Bitcoin, Polkadot, Vechain, Cardano, Tezos)
oracles which translate information between different blockchain protocols or real world information (chainlink, Band)
DEX's which are decentralized exchanges that act in a peer to peer manner (Synthetics, Ocean, Balancer, Kyber, Curve)
stable coins (Tether, Dao, Paxos)

before you say how do they benefit us in the real world, let me suggest that in order for us to have a discussion about cryptocurrencies, you must first recognize their value EVEN THOUGH they only exist in a virtual environment.

all of the above have REAL WORLD impact once you begin to understand them and how to use them if you are an investor or a Business. For instance, the Vechain blockchain is an enterprise level blockchain that allows business' to leverage blockchain technology and it provides the governance structure to allow business' or business markets to use the immutable nature of the blockchain to reduce loses, track orders in real time, recognize fraud (counterfeits)... really anything you could can dream up. it also allows the more initiated to build and develop their own DAPPS (digital applications) on top of the blockchain as it applies to the specific needs of the developer.

[Mifune]

Originally Posted by AshCashEmAll

Wow appreciate the explanation. Glad I at least picked one that has a purpose. If you could write more it does actually interest me or pm that works too.

before digital currency, if two business' in different markets wanted to exchange payment for products or services, the buyer had to put up monies correlated to the value of the transaction... and in order for the producer to receive the funds, he also had to put up monies (in his own currency) that were equal to the sale/payment. Both parties would have to submit these payments to a bank (or even banks... the origin and at the end point) and these banks would 'hold' these assets an inordinate amount of time before clearing the payment and then the producer would release the product. this process could take from 5 days to a month... or more (net 30, 60 etc).

Now comes XRP into the picture and it allows this to occur in a matter of minutes. The buyer purchases XRP in the amount related to the transaction price and then they immediately send these coins to his supplier across town or in a foreign country where that producer receives the payment in the same XRP. It's then a simple matter of withdrawing the curency and he has been paid. converting those coins to his local currency happens as a natural part of the payment mechanism... XRP is acting as a lubricant to the transaction where it REMOVES the central bank or banks from the transaction. In regards to being orders of magnitude faster, it also greatly reduces fees by removing the central control point or established banking mechanisms.

this is a highly simplified scenario... but the same can happen with peer to peer payments between a person in the united states of America and someone in, say, hyper-inflated Venezuela. the recipient receives the xrp coin in a value that is coordinated to the origins value... so sending $100 of US currency ensures that the person in Venezuela receives his own currency in the amount correlated to $100 US.

[TC94]

Originally Posted by Mifune

all of the above have REAL WORLD impact once you begin to understand them and how to use them if you are an investor or a Business. For instance, the Vechain blockchain is an enterprise level blockchain that allows business' to leverage blockchain technology and it provides the governance structure to allow business' or business markets to use the immutable nature of the blockchain to reduce loses, track orders in real time, recognize fraud (counterfeits)... really anything you could can dream up. it also allows the more initiated to build and develop their own DAPPS (digital applications) on top of the blockchain as it applies to the specific needs of the developer.

One of my writers had this to say about VeChain in 2018. There been a lot of quiet development on logistics and authentication tokens since then.

https://thecryptocurrencyforums.com/...-authenticity/

I think public decentralized blockchains will find widespread real world use in 2021. The question remains what will the token value actually be. There is a value to providing the service, paid for by those using it with the purchase of tokens.

But when tokens can be issued without restrictions or used in fractional amounts, it can be difficult to determine a real world price per token.

But I’m bullish on those projects that actually have uses, which remains well less than 5% of all cryptocurrencies and tokens IMHO.

[AshCashEmAll]

Originally Posted by Mifune

before digital currency, if two business' in different markets wanted to exchange payment for products or services, the buyer had to put up monies correlated to the value of the transaction... and in order for the producer to receive the funds, he also had to put up monies (in his own currency) that were equal to the sale/payment. Both parties would have to submit these payments to a bank (or even banks... the origin and at the end point) and these banks would 'hold' these assets an inordinate amount of time before clearing the payment and then the producer would release the product. this process could take from 5 days to a month... or more (net 30, 60 etc).

Now comes XRP into the picture and it allows this to occur in a matter of minutes. The buyer purchases XRP in the amount related to the transaction price and then they immediately send these coins to his supplier across town or in a foreign country where that producer receives the payment in the same XRP. It's then a simple matter of withdrawing the curency and he has been paid. converting those coins to his local currency happens as a natural part of the payment mechanism... XRP is acting as a lubricant to the transaction where it REMOVES the central bank or banks from the transaction. In regards to being orders of magnitude faster, it also greatly reduces fees by removing the central control point or established banking mechanisms.

this is a highly simplified scenario... but the same can happen with peer to peer payments between a person in the united states of America and someone in, say, hyper-inflated Venezuela. the recipient receives the xrp coin in a value that is coordinated to the origins value... so sending $100 of US currency ensures that the person in Venezuela receives his own currency in the amount correlated to $100 US.

Great explanation! I feel like a truly understand now how great xrp can be. Do you have any recommendations as far as cryptos you feel are great to buy beyond xrp?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[huncho]

20k this week?

[RBradleigh]

Originally Posted by huncho

20k this week?

If people are willing to hold instead of trying to day trade it, sure

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by RBradleigh

If people are willing to hold instead of trying to day trade it, sure

Right. If it can break through ........

[Masteryacht]

Someone once said, “If you don’t hold it, you dont own it.”

[Mifune]

Originally Posted by AshCashEmAll

Great explanation! I feel like a truly understand now how great xrp can be. Do you have any recommendations as far as cryptos you feel are great to buy beyond xrp?

This is my personal portfolio make up... At this point.
Bitcoin
Ethereum
Chain link
Polkadot
Cardano
Ren

I am always moving funds around, but that is the core.

I also agree with tc94's assessment about figuring valuations on these tokens that are low level use case... Because they are meant for simple ongoing use, their adoption is more likely tied with them being affordable and lower value than a coin that is a store of wealth like bitcoin or tied directly to the operation of a major block chain like Ethereum. I don't own vechain or xrp any longer because of this idea.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Mifune

This is my personal portfolio make up... At this point.
Bitcoin
Ethereum
Chain link
Polkadot
Cardano
Ren

I am always moving funds around, but that is the core.

I also agree with tc94's assessment about figuring valuations on these tokens that are low level use case... Because they are meant for simple ongoing use, their adoption is more likely tied with them being affordable and lower value than a coin that is a store of wealth like bitcoin or tied directly to the operation of a major block chain like Ethereum. I don't own vechain or xrp any longer because of this idea.

im all eth and btc. it is the safest play if there is one. other alts are fine but a lot of them are simply projects that wont work out. i agree having some is a great hedge and valuation wise there is more room to run.

if we take the global monetary system of 250 trillion you can see why btc has room to run. if we look at large tech companies valued in the trillions you can see why eth has room to run. investors as a mass are herd mentality. they see it as btc is expensive. they see it as eth as just a way to make a quick buck not as a development platform and ecosystem. retrospectively we can look back at the dotcom bubble and see where the ones that survived are at today. all much higher adjusted for splits and dividends.

2.0 eth is a big deal.

most havent caught on yet. personally i know a lot of wealth doesnt even own crypto and some who do are buying grayscale which is a terrible way to own it IMO.

crypto may be a lot of things but to me it is a new asset class and that is exciting.

[morg.k24]

You are doing great but crypto remains a pass for me.

[pickettt]

Like it or not, we're all going to be dealing in crypto in relatively short order. You may as well get familiar with it.

[Mifune]

early in 2021, the dow jones S&P is going to begin listing cryptocurrencies indexs on the exchange.