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Old 5 February 2018, 02:52 PM   #1
Sidmind
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Wish me luck, will be servicing my 14060 soon.

I pulled my 14060 off the watch winder the other day after only a month on it, immediately I noticed a noise coming from the rotor axle. with the back off I found that it rubbed through the nice finish on the outer rim of the movement where it was touching, not good.

I have been servicing old junker vintage watches for about 4-5 years off and on, gaining a large collection of tools and parts and vintage watches, last count was around 500 with most being old Gruen's or Bulova's and such that I pick up at flea markets for a few dollars each with the occasional find of lifetime (1675 gilt for $50), not saying I am a watchmaker as I will leave that term for the professionals but I have successfully serviced a fair number of watches.
I always said I would never service my Rolex or other luxury models, but the 14060 with the 3000 movement is just begging to be next on the list.

I will be ordering (from Ebay as I can find them) a new mainspring, rotor axle, intermediate winding gear, and gaskets. Hopefully, that is all that I will need.

I do already have the proper oils and tools other than a 3035 movement holder, not sure if I will get one or just go with my Horotec adjustable.

I will be sure to upload photos as I go.
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Old 6 February 2018, 06:16 AM   #2
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I totally get this for a watch where the value of service is about what the watch is worth or more than half. But this a modern rolex. I would imagine the cost of the parts is going to be close to what someone with a parts account would charge to do the service.

Anyway best of luck. Will read about your experiences. cheers!
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Old 6 February 2018, 07:02 AM   #3
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While I fully appreciate the desire to service your own watch, when you are talking about a watch that is worth thousands of dollars, there is risk involved here.

It could wind up costing you a lot more in the long run than you might save attempting to do this yourself without training and all of the specific and necessary equipment and tooling.

You mention that you will need to replace the rotor axle. Have you got a 3000/35 rotor axle punch to rivet the new axle?

I know this might annoy some and I suppose its easy for a Rolex watchmaker to say this but on something of this value and quality, it is a job better left to a Rolex trained watchmaker.
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Old 6 February 2018, 07:20 AM   #4
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Trust me, don't do it.
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Old 6 February 2018, 08:14 AM   #5
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While I fully appreciate the desire to service your own watch, when you are talking about a watch that is worth thousands of dollars, there is risk involved here.

It could wind up costing you a lot more in the long run than you might save attempting to do this yourself without training and all of the specific and necessary equipment and tooling.

You mention that you will need to replace the rotor axle. Have you got a 3000/35 rotor axle punch to rivet the new axle?

I know this might annoy some and I suppose its easy for a Rolex watchmaker to say this but on something of this value and quality, it is a job better left to a Rolex trained watchmaker.
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Trust me, don't do it.

I have to agree with the experts.....Risk isn't worth the reward on this one. I can appreciate your fearlessness though - LOL.
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Old 6 February 2018, 08:43 AM   #6
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A few years ago I was told that Chronographs were too hard to service and I should let the experts handle them, of course I did not listen and now after a few dozen vintage chronographs still running strong I say that I did just fine and glad I did not listen.
FYI this is not about money, I am well aware of the risks and I would never do this on my newer models (actually they are still under warranty) but this 14060 with the 3000 movement to me is a prime candidate for my skill level. I have already regulated it in the past with no problems.

Ironstark, I was not aware of needing the punch, but I see they are only $30 for a Horotec version, and I see plenty of guides online for how to change it out.
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Old 6 February 2018, 09:40 AM   #7
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Any mechanical device can be stripped, cleaned and reassembled if you have the patience, the dexterity, tooling and ability to get it back together without doing damage.

What can catch people out is not necessarily the complexity of the movement per se but what happens if it does not all go according to plan. If a problem occurs and there is a lack of understanding of how a watch truly works and why it works the way it does, then it can mean problems. Add generic tooling, generic components and a lack of familiarity with each movement's unique "characteristics" and issues can easily arise.

There is also a difference between what appears to be working well and working properly. Lubrication must be exact, cleanliness must be surgical in order to ensure years of trouble free running.

Good luck. I truly hope all goes well and enjoy the experience. Let us know how it goes.
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Old 6 February 2018, 10:09 AM   #8
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Good luck and hope it all goes well!


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Old 6 February 2018, 12:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironstark View Post
Any mechanical device can be stripped, cleaned and reassembled if you have the patience, the dexterity, tooling and ability to get it back together without doing damage.

What can catch people out is not necessarily the complexity of the movement per se but what happens if it does not all go according to plan. If a problem occurs and there is a lack of understanding of how a watch truly works and why it works the way it does, then it can mean problems. Add generic tooling, generic components and a lack of familiarity with each movement's unique "characteristics" and issues can easily arise.

There is also a difference between what appears to be working well and working properly. Lubrication must be exact, cleanliness must be surgical in order to ensure years of trouble free running.

Good luck. I truly hope all goes well and enjoy the experience. Let us know how it goes.
Thank you for the words of encouragement. :) I have no plans on using generic components, Ebay is filled with OEM parts if you have patience they can be had at good prices, I picked up a sealed intermediate crown wheel this morning for $25. It will be a bit tricky as I am sure there are counterfeit packages with China parts in them, so I will be treading lite through those waters.

If by chance I change my mind who do you recommend for service outside of an RSC?
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Old 6 February 2018, 06:07 PM   #10
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Old 6 February 2018, 06:25 PM   #11
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Why though ? Good luck !
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Old 6 February 2018, 08:40 PM   #12
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Thank you for the words of encouragement. :) I have no plans on using generic components, Ebay is filled with OEM parts if you have patience they can be had at good prices, I picked up a sealed intermediate crown wheel this morning for $25. It will be a bit tricky as I am sure there are counterfeit packages with China parts in them, so I will be treading lite through those waters.

If by chance I change my mind who do you recommend for service outside of an RSC?
Do you know what to look for when looking for worn parts?
Do you have access to fixodrop/epilame, escapement grease Rolex Rl2 or at least Moebius 9415?
It really needs epilame on pallet fork and escape wheel, seconds wheel and reversing wheels, to keep the oil from running.

When lubricating Rolex make sure to use more oil than you would probably think is good. Jewel bearings need a good supply (but don't overdo it!), you'll need to do the same on the escapement.
Rolex movements tend to work bad if the escapement is minimally lubricated(more so than say eta 2892/2824), especially if no epilame is used, this will soon result in a dry escapement and you can start over again.

It is not a complicated movement, but trust me it is not easy to lubricate to Rolex standards and work clean if you're relatively new to watchmaking and haven't had any formal training.

I still recommend to bring it in to an actual watchmaker.
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Old 6 February 2018, 09:09 PM   #13
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Subscribed to this thread. Good luck. Hack your skills!
"..until you try you do not know.." and "..do not I already have" - this is come to my mind.
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Old 7 February 2018, 12:03 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=SearChart;8254220]Do you know what to look for when looking for worn parts?
Do you have access to fixodrop/epilame, escapement grease Rolex Rl2 or at least Moebius 9415?
It really needs epilame on pallet fork and escape wheel, seconds wheel and reversing wheels, to keep the oil from running.
QUOTE]

I have a high power microscope for checking worn parts.
I do have epilame and 9415 and always use it on other watches as well. The epilame is the Zenith version for lower cost, it has always worked well for me. I also have all the other required oils/grease.

The only tools I am missing are the axle stake and a movement holder specific to 3035, although I have never needed a specific holder before so not sure I will go that route.

The reversing wheels is where I will need to do more research, most of the vintage watches I normally service are not auto, or do not have reversing wheels.
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Old 7 February 2018, 12:27 AM   #15
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Good luck. Love the DIY attitude.

With the internet now having videos and pictures and the service manuals readily available, someone who has been honing skills over even a short period of time can knock out a quality service with little issue.

A couple months ago I did my 1st Rolex Service after years of working on less expensive movements and watches and there was a slight learning curve, but nothing that wasnt too hard.

Having the right tools and lubricants is key though, and take your time. Rushing has never worked for anyone when it comes to movements. Might take a swing by a local watchmaker that works on Rolex and see if he has any tips or tricks as well. Most those guys are glad to talk (at least the ones I frequent).
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Old 7 February 2018, 12:52 AM   #16
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I would love to have thre ability to do my own...even partical service (like cleaning and lubricating inside). However, even seeing all that sruff/tools laid out on the towel on top of the table in your picture scared me. Good luck!
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Old 7 February 2018, 01:06 AM   #17
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I have a high power microscope for checking worn parts.
I do have epilame and 9415 and always use it on other watches as well. The epilame is the Zenith version for lower cost, it has always worked well for me. I also have all the other required oils/grease.

The only tools I am missing are the axle stake and a movement holder specific to 3035, although I have never needed a specific holder before so not sure I will go that route.

The reversing wheels is where I will need to do more research, most of the vintage watches I normally service are not auto, or do not have reversing wheels.
Ah that's great, you are pretty prepared then

Rolex reversers are really simple, just put them in the epilame, then when it's dried off use hp1000 on the reverser axle and put the reverser pinion on. Then lubricate with hp1000 on both sides where it is jewelled.

I do recommend to use the Rolex movement holder, your other one (black/rubberised Bergeon 4040?) does not support the seconds wheel jewel when pressing the second hand on.

Now with Rolex it is uncommon to experience problems when applying hands because of the 335 cannon pinion and centre pinion assembly which supports a great deal.
But there are many movements that need this jewel to be supported when applying the second hand, otherwise you will risk moving it and messing up the endshake and/or damage the jewel and seconds wheel.

It looks like you are pretty determined to do this, I wish you good luck. If you have any questions feel free to PM anytime.

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Old 8 February 2018, 07:55 AM   #18
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Hi Searchart,

I was not aware of the need to Epilame the seconds wheel.
It is not specified so in the service manual as far as I know last time I looked at the Rolex service documentation webpages.

Do you suggest to dip the entire wheel in the epilame (like the escape wheel)?


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Old 8 February 2018, 01:28 PM   #19
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Hi Searchart,

I was not aware of the need to Epilame the seconds wheel.
It is not specified so in the service manual as far as I know last time I looked at the Rolex service documentation webpages.

Do you suggest to dip the entire wheel in the epilame (like the escape wheel)?


br

Ron
I am not sure he said that the second wheel needed epilame, he was telling me about the second's wheel needing support from the dedicated movement holder.
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Old 8 February 2018, 07:35 PM   #20
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Hi Searchart,

I was not aware of the need to Epilame the seconds wheel.
It is not specified so in the service manual as far as I know last time I looked at the Rolex service documentation webpages.

Do you suggest to dip the entire wheel in the epilame (like the escape wheel)?


br

Ron
The current Rolex manual in myRolexworld tells you to put it in fixodrop, atleast for 31×× and 22××, likely 30×× as well.
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Old 8 February 2018, 09:36 PM   #21
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Intereesting, I had a look a moment ago too for the 3135 and now it seems they made an update so they even put the ratchet wheel in the Epilame bath.
It still puzzles me for i learned in my Rolex training not to oil the long pivot side of the seconds wheel and the short pivot side of the seconds wheel get a normal oiling, just like any other wheel. Almost if Rolex is afraid overoiling the long pivot side of the seconds wheel and therefore withe Epilame ensuring it will not spread any further.
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Old 9 February 2018, 07:32 AM   #22
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Intereesting, I had a look a moment ago too for the 3135 and now it seems they made an update so they even put the ratchet wheel in the Epilame bath.
It still puzzles me for i learned in my Rolex training not to oil the long pivot side of the seconds wheel and the short pivot side of the seconds wheel get a normal oiling, just like any other wheel. Almost if Rolex is afraid overoiling the long pivot side of the seconds wheel and therefore withe Epilame ensuring it will not spread any further.
I found that a lot of the long pivot sides on the 3135-360 have a scratch or dull spot where it is supported, while other gears show no wear at all.
I'm thinking Rolex found that this is a common spot for wear&tear and making sure the hp1000 stays in place with fixodrop is a way to prevent unnecessary wear.
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Old 9 February 2018, 07:42 AM   #23
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Thanks, I will upate my procedures for servicing these movements from now on.

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Old 11 February 2018, 12:02 AM   #24
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Subscribed. My 14060 is with Rolex NY and will be sent to me this week. Full overhaul, and after a dial swap snafu, will be happy to get it back.
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Old 11 February 2018, 12:47 AM   #25
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Kevin, did you start working on your Sub yet?

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Old 11 February 2018, 02:34 PM   #26
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Kevin, did you start working on your Sub yet?

The first part arrived today, I did take apart the rotor to see just how bad the axle is worn. it's pretty bad. I have a bid on an OEM axle from Ebay, hopefully, I get it ($25) also need a Mainspring, the cheapest I can find for genuine is about $50.

Also realized I don't have HP-1000, I have HP-1300, I updated all my oils about 6 months ago and spent a ton of money doing so, not sure how I left out the HP-1000.

I still have to order that axle stake, but I am wondering what someone would charge me if I just sent them the rotor and the new axle. I would think it would cost close to what the stake would be or slightly more, and I would be assured it would be staked correctly. By chance do you do work on the side? :)

Sunday I am going to start taking apart the rest of it and get it cleaned up, I might do a first pass cleaning/oil with the same mainspring, then do it all again once I get one. this will give me a chance to check all the parts for wear and order them if needed, I don't like to leave watches unassembled for months at a time, so I can practice my oiling while I wait for the other parts.
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Old 11 February 2018, 03:01 PM   #27
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I applaud you sir! Please do show pics of your handiwork if possible as well as the completed project.
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Old 19 February 2018, 11:36 AM   #28
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Great stuff here. Thanks for sharing your adventure with us.

And I suppose it’s not as though you’re servicing your own helicopter—unlikely to kill anyone in the endeavor. And yet, still, fingers crossed for you, sir!


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Old 19 February 2018, 12:49 PM   #29
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I'd do it too, if I had the tools.
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Old 19 February 2018, 12:51 PM   #30
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I serviced a 16610 with a very bad axle not long ago. It wasn't pretty.

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