1675 Opinions

[Jaegodylan]

Hello Folks

Saw this PCG 1675 turn up in a local English auction.

Seems to have a few issues and wondered what your thoughts on it were.

https://www.easyliveauction.com/cata...ction-lot-742/

“ ROLEX GMT-MASTER: A Rolex Perpetual Date GMT-Master black dial and bezel gentleman's wristwatch with pointed crown guard case, reference 1675, serial 116xxx, with original Oyster clasp, non Rolex bracelet (not currently ticking) ”

There’s no movement shot and it’s not running. The serial number seems odd.. the engravings in general (though the pictures make it hard to discern details) which makes me question the case, the crown and insert look suspicious as well.











Your thoughts?

Joe

[physicist]

The 24 hr hand does not look at all correct to me, but I’m no expert.

[springer]

That is what I refer to as a "service watch." It is full of service parts with minimal collector value. Most collectors buy these vintage watches for their "collector value" therefore, if you plan on buying and selling it someday, you will be limited to the potential buyers.

As far as the case goes, I can't read any numbers in your photo so I can't respond further whether something is up with the case. It could be a great parts watch for someone looking for a case or movement from the era relating to a "genuine serial number" if everything checks out.

[linesiders]

As Springer states, heavy service parts which crushes price

1.16x,xxx serial

Case might be a little wonky but probably just images - a lot of gamble there if not running

[springer]

Originally Posted by linesiders

As Springer states, heavy service parts which crushes price

1.16x,xxx serial

Case might be a little wonky but probably just images - a lot of gamble there if not running

I believe the serial is six digits - 116XXX

[TimeLord2]

I would venture that the insert is after market and this serial number never would have had all black to begin with, as the all black inserts were early 70s. Should have a BLRO insert. The only other period part aside from the case and movement might be that small GMT hand. I defer to Linesiders and Springer, the true experts.

[Jaegodylan]

I read the serial as 11646122 but the photos have that odd iPhone lack of clarity.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

I read the serial as 11646122 but the photos have that odd iPhone lack of clarity.

That is the correct serial: 1164612 - fairly easy to see when blown up on a widescreen (and why looking at watches on cell phones sux )

That last mark and 2 looks an awful lot like a not er digit, which would give us our first 11,xxx,xxx mil serial (I did the same ; ) )

But she ain't pretty and it looks like the ownber was a carpenter (and banged nails with the caseback)

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

I read the serial as 11646122 but the photos have that odd iPhone lack of clarity.

I think you are adding an extra digit at the end. It appears to be a 1.16M serial number from the gilt-gloss era, and the shape of the crown guards are consistent with that. As noted above, many of the original valuable parts have been replaced.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by springer

I believe the serial is six digits - 116XXX

It is a 1.6 mil - blown up on a big screen is easier to see

[Jaegodylan]

Well I watched the auction anyway and the watch did not sell… he went as low as £6800 and then passed.

Joe

[Jaegodylan]

This watch is back up for auction again.

https://www.easyliveauction.com/cata...ction-lot-617/

I had done a deal for this watch and when it arrived noted quite a few odd things. Some took it to the RSC in London and they took it to the back and then promptly returned it as they said the serial number did not match the reference.

I notified the auction house and they refunded me. So, the question is why would they attempt to deceive and sell it again.

Here’s some images I took of it. The case seems to be a low end replica
AKA total fake.

[Dom9]

Should this be in the "Watch Out" section, lower down in the forum?

Case looks pretty good to me, so if RSC say it's fake, I guess it's a pretty good one.

Would explain all the service parts, as someone has built their own high end replica from parts I guess?

[ADINVA]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

I would venture that the insert is after market and this serial number never would have had all black to begin with, as the all black inserts were early 70s. Should have a BLRO insert. The only other period part aside from the case and movement might be that small GMT hand. I defer to Linesiders and Springer, the true experts.

The insert looks aftermarket to me too.

[shammad10]

would RSC return it if the watch was a 'franken'? So if the case was original but didn't match the movement? Or does that mean it is explicitly fake?

[Jaegodylan]

They said the seirial did not match the reference, so the number was not a 1675.

[XavierM]

Hi,

Case is fake IMO:
- Crown guards should be round
- Engravings are fake IMO

[jerseybean]

I also noticed a Franken 1680 red on that site as well.

https://www.easyliveauction.com/cata...-sale-lot-455/

[Dom9]

This thread got me looking at that site and I saw that one as well... As auction sites go, this one seems to be one to miss, appreciating they're multiple different auctions, aggregated. No doubt a lot of "my grandfather's watches he owned for 50yrs"...

[Twophonetoni]

Wow that 1680 is rough…£8-9.5 estimate haha


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[Erpin]

Case looks fake to me

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

They said the serial did not match the reference, so the number was not a 1675.

I suspect that this is 'The Database' that Haywood and Tommy and few other of us have, and that leaked/escaped from Rolex and is closely guarded by a few gatekeepers.

As such Rolex can often know if a watch is from a serial range. For example I know of a short run of 1971 1655's consecutive and only 1655's.

Agree with Eric et al, the mid-case looks iffy and the whole watch/package too tbh.

Imho small auctions are the most risky places to buy a piece. Many large dealers shift their, shall we say 'miscalculated' pieces there and the auctioneers are utterly, and I mean utterly, clueless of what they are hawking!

[vjm99]

24 hour hand doesn't look right in my opinion, edges are too rounded and puffy and looks a bit poorly finished (compared to my NOS hand next to me)

edit: okay that case is pretty bad, didn't even look at it right.

[Jaegodylan]

The beast has emerged again..

https://www.easyliveauction.com/cata...ery-f-lot-636/

[vjm99]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

The beast has emerged again..

oh god no