The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 2 January 2013, 12:22 AM   #31
Art 1
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, Canada
Watch: Rol/Seik/Tud/Omega
Posts: 30,244
I don't know. But I do know a guy over in London who has an amazing PP collection, Rolex too. About a year ago he started getting into GS's, big time. He called to tell me and this what he said. " Art, if they took the GS off the dial and put Patek Philippe, they could increase the price 5 times and sell them, they are that good."
Art 1 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 12:51 AM   #32
Rags
2024 Pledge Member
 
Rags's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Chuck
Location: SW Florida
Watch: 16233,16610,214270
Posts: 11,182
Seiko is a great watch company but rolex markets better..
__________________
16233 Y Serial Datejust
16610 Z Serial Submariner
214270 Explorer

114300 Oyster Perpetual
76200 Tudor Date+Day
Rags is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 12:58 AM   #33
RolexDivers
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BIG BEAR, CA
Posts: 1,468
Even if the GS had better quality than a ROLEX, the GS will always have the SEIKO Stigma attached to it, especially when the price is as high as a ROLEX.
RolexDivers is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:10 AM   #34
subtona
"TRF" Member
 
subtona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: gus
Location: East Coast
Watch: APK & sometimes Y
Posts: 25,958
don't have one but my impression is yes
__________________
subtona is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:20 AM   #35
Mickey®
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Real Name: Mickey®
Location: Atlanta, GA
Watch: Swiss Made
Posts: 5,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbo View Post
The text (milgauss) is not centered.
Ouch.
That might drive me crazy
Mickey® is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:22 AM   #36
Mickey®
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Real Name: Mickey®
Location: Atlanta, GA
Watch: Swiss Made
Posts: 5,801
Don't forget about resale...
Who wins there?
I know my answer.
Mickey® is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:25 AM   #37
rr-nyc
Liar & Ratbag
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Real Name: Renato
Location: NYC / Miami Beach
Watch: Rolex Daytona
Posts: 5,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags View Post
Seiko is a great watch company but rolex markets better..
I disagree. It's not so much marketing that puts Rolex ahead of Seiko in the high end market. Seiko did it to themselves.

You can't make a $75 watch and an $7500 watch under the same name. Thats why Toyota created Lexus and Nissan created Infinity.
rr-nyc is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:27 AM   #38
esm
"TRF" Member
 
esm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Eric
Location: Location,Location
Watch: this, bro...
Posts: 15,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art 1 View Post
He called to tell me and this what he said. " Art, if they took the GS off the dial and put Patek Philippe, they could increase the price 5 times and sell them, they are that good."
Doubt it. Even though a GS can be "that good" it still won't have the PP seal for the movement. It is purely a personal statement.
esm is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:28 AM   #39
balboa73
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr-nyc View Post
I disagree. It's not so much marketing that puts Rolex ahead of Seiko in the high end market. Seiko did it to themselves.

You can't make a $75 watch and an $7500 watch under the same name. Thats why Toyota created Lexus and Nissan created Infinity.
Mercedes does it?. Mercedes have low end models that run $30000.00 and up
balboa73 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:31 AM   #40
RolexDivers
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BIG BEAR, CA
Posts: 1,468
Everything sells if priced right. I wonder how difficult is it to sell a GS as compared to a SUB?
RolexDivers is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:32 AM   #41
Nodelicious
"TRF" Member
 
Nodelicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 125
Thanks for all the helpful feedback - I'm going to consider a gs for my collection.
Nodelicious is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:33 AM   #42
dddrees
"TRF" Member
 
dddrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Real Name: Dan
Location: USA
Watch: This N That
Posts: 34,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Well at the moment I don't own a Seiko Grand but been looking for a vintage one for quite some time.And IMHO the Seiko Grand can match or surpass all of the Swiss mass produced watches even Rolex. But what they cannot match is the brand name nothing more or less, as today with the stereo brand conscious types many today don't wear the watch they just wear the brand..The Seiko Grand are fantastic watches and Grand Seikos are in a completely different league to the standard Seiko's, and should not be spoken about in the same breath. Grand Seikos are hand made and the vintage ones wiped the floor with the major Swiss brands for accuracy before today's watered down COSC was formed in 1973.

Now before the Swiss COSC was started they used to have Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard than todays Swiss COSC. And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%, today around 94% pass the COSC test first time a big difference now truth be told today with careful regulation most any movement could pass todays test.Back in the 1960-70s just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The other brands. were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.

That was until the Seiko Grand come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Now in those days only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of only serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All others were specially made movements just for the competition test and not then for retail sale.

Now Seiko first entered the competition,with other watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But then for a much higher standard than todays COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard (+/- 2/3 seconds/day) Out of many watches submitted only two passed this test a Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux this time a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated the tests in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 many of Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,now thats when the Swiss COSC was founded but run by the Swiss for the Swiss brands only.

Check out the regulator adjuster on this one! and movement finish. That's real quality and there own movement test, to a much higher spec than the Swiss COSC




Thanks again for the indepth insight and historical lesson Peter.
__________________
When it captures your imagination, that's when you know you have found your passion.

Loyal Foot Soldier of The Nylon Nation.

Card Carrying Member of the Global Association of
Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons
dddrees is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:44 AM   #43
Art 1
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, Canada
Watch: Rol/Seik/Tud/Omega
Posts: 30,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by esm View Post
Doubt it. Even though a GS can be "that good" it still won't have the PP seal for the movement. It is purely a personal statement.
From a guy who owns 90 PP's.
Art 1 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:53 AM   #44
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 52,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolexDivers View Post
Even if the GS had better quality than a ROLEX, the GS will always have the SEIKO Stigma attached to it, especially when the price is as high as a ROLEX.
Afraid any stigma with Seiko and the Seiko grand is only in that persons head.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:55 AM   #45
Mickey®
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Real Name: Mickey®
Location: Atlanta, GA
Watch: Swiss Made
Posts: 5,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr-nyc View Post
I disagree. It's not so much marketing that puts Rolex ahead of Seiko in the high end market. Seiko did it to themselves.

You can't make a $75 watch and an $7500 watch under the same name. Thats why Toyota created Lexus and Nissan created Infinity.
I agree they have made their life hard making less than $75 watches and $7500 watches. In my opinion we don't count...we would appreciate a GS but the average Joe given the option between a 8k GS or a GMTIIC will pick the Rolex I bet...
Mickey® is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 01:57 AM   #46
handsfull
"TRF" Member
 
handsfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Real Name: J
Location: The great Midwest
Watch: youlookinat?
Posts: 2,369
GS all day, every day. Rolex is nice, but GS's finishing is much higher.

The only thing holding me back from purchasing a GS is the fact that they don't have a US based service center. If something goes wrong with your GS, it's getting sent all the way back to japan. Nein Danke.
handsfull is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:01 AM   #47
The French Dude
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 68
I never saw a GS and I'd like to. Because I read numerous thread on European Forums telling that GS is a really good brand. Some people say better than Rolex, some disagree...
It apear that Seiko, I mean the name "Seiko" does not inspire good quality watches due to the cheaper watches from the brand.
Maybe it not the same tendency all around the world...
The French Dude is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:23 AM   #48
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 52,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by The French Dude View Post
I never saw a GS and I'd like to. Because I read numerous thread on European Forums telling that GS is a really good brand. Some people say better than Rolex, some disagree...
It apear that Seiko, I mean the name "Seiko" does not inspire good quality watches due to the cheaper watches from the brand.
Maybe it not the same tendency all around the world...
The Hi beat is very accurate like all the high end Seiko Grand and the Credor range,but still little known outside Japan. .But afraid today many just wear a brand and see Seiko as a lesser brand which its definitely not.And IMHO its a better watch and movement than many of the high end Swiss mass produced watches today.Now the Seiko Grand and Credor range they are hand built to a very high standard,but today many have no idea about movements in general some just wear a brand name.








__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:28 AM   #49
landroverking
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Real Name: Jay
Location: TEXAS
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 7,648
Seiko or Grand Seiko they are great watches the GS on everything except resale is in par with Rolex. The GS spring drive is maybe a short step ahead of Rolex.
landroverking is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:36 AM   #50
Mickey®
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Real Name: Mickey®
Location: Atlanta, GA
Watch: Swiss Made
Posts: 5,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by handsfull View Post
GS all day, every day. Rolex is nice, but GS's finishing is much higher.

The only thing holding me back from purchasing a GS is the fact that they don't have a US based service center. If something goes wrong with your GS, it's getting sent all the way back to japan. Nein Danke.

Do I read this as you don't own a GS but you'd buy one over Rolex "all day, everyday"?

Mickey® is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:40 AM   #51
Frogman4me
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,268
Hate to say this but if we are talking build quality then without question Grand Seiko is far superior than a Rolex. It's not even close, do some research or even better own one and see for yourself.
Frogman4me is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:43 AM   #52
alanc
"TRF" Member
 
alanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Real Name: Alan
Location: Connecticut
Watch: 114270 16710B
Posts: 1,062
After reading this thread, I did some research on the GS brand. Their Spring Drive seems incredible, and the watches are very attractive. The only downside (which I admit is a significant one) seems to be that they are difficult to get serviced.

Notwithstanding that, I think I'll join Padi and start stalking for a pre-owned one. This could be my next watch.
alanc is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:48 AM   #53
ecsub44
"TRF" Member
 
ecsub44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Watch: Sub
Posts: 3,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey® View Post
Do I read this as you don't own a GS but you'd buy one over Rolex "all day, everyday"?

__________________
侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

Commissioner of WEIRD POLICE , Badge # ecsub44
ecsub44 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:49 AM   #54
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 52,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanc View Post
After reading this thread, I did some research on the GS brand. Their Spring Drive seems incredible, and the watches are very attractive. The only downside (which I admit is a significant one) seems to be that they are difficult to get serviced.

Notwithstanding that, I think I'll join Padi and start stalking for a pre-owned one. This could be my next watch.
Afraid today vintage GS are very difficult to find and getting rarer than hens teeth, I missed one in Singapore about ten years ago a big mistake on my part.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:54 AM   #55
rr-nyc
Liar & Ratbag
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Real Name: Renato
Location: NYC / Miami Beach
Watch: Rolex Daytona
Posts: 5,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by balboa73 View Post
Mercedes does it?. Mercedes have low end models that run $30000.00 and up
Yes, Mercedes in the US start at $35k but that is not accessible to a large portion of the population. Toyota have cars starting at $14k which is.

Toyota would not be as successful selling their high end cars under the Toyota badge compared to Lexus
rr-nyc is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:56 AM   #56
Nodelicious
"TRF" Member
 
Nodelicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 125
Rolex and Grand Seiko build ultra high quality products. Rolex seems to have great talent inventing amazing tool watches. I'm not knowledgable enough to state which engine (movement) uses more durable and higher quality metals. I also don't know where gs sources their metals.

Cool innovations by Rolex according to Wikipedia:

Among the company's innovations are:

The first waterproof wristwatch "Oyster", 1926

The first wristwatch with an automatically changing date on the dial (Rolex Datejust ref.4467, 1945)[6]

The first wristwatch case waterproof to 100 m (330 ft) (Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner ref.6204, 1953)

The first wristwatch to show two time zones at once (Rolex GMT Master ref.6542, 1954)

The first wristwatch with an automatically changing day and date on the dial (Rolex Day-Date, 1956)[12][better source needed]

The first watchmaker to earn chronometer certification for a wristwatch[5]

Rolex's founder opened a foundation that supports meaningful causes - Rolex helps support this.

Seiko's movements and many of their watches are stunning examples of movement innovation, creativity and beauty. Spring Drive!

Would be nice to have one of each in a collection.
Nodelicious is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 02:58 AM   #57
Nodelicious
"TRF" Member
 
Nodelicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Afraid today vintage GS are very difficult to find and getting rarer than hens teeth, I missed one in Singapore about ten years ago a big mistake on my part.
Hey padi I think there's a vintage gs over at watchyouseek for sale - not in perfect shape but price seems strong at 850 i think.
Nodelicious is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 03:06 AM   #58
mruhland31
"TRF" Member
 
mruhland31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Santa Clarita CA
Posts: 1,028
Great post

Great post....fun read.thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Well at the moment I don't own a Seiko Grand but been looking for a vintage one for quite some time.And IMHO the Seiko Grand can match or surpass all of the Swiss mass produced watches even Rolex. But what they cannot match is the brand name nothing more or less, as today with the stereo brand conscious types many today don't wear the watch they just wear the brand..The Seiko Grand are fantastic watches and Grand Seikos are in a completely different league to the standard Seiko's, and should not be spoken about in the same breath. Grand Seikos are hand made and the vintage ones wiped the floor with the major Swiss brands for accuracy before today's watered down COSC was formed in 1973.

Now before the Swiss COSC was started they used to have Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard than todays Swiss COSC. And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%, today around 94% pass the COSC test first time a big difference now truth be told today with careful regulation most any movement could pass todays test.Back in the 1960-70s just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The other brands. were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.

That was until the Seiko Grand come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Now in those days only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of only serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All others were specially made movements just for the competition test and not then for retail sale.

Now Seiko first entered the competition,with other watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But then for a much higher standard than todays COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard (+/- 2/3 seconds/day) Out of many watches submitted only two passed this test a Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux this time a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated the tests in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 many of Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,now thats when the Swiss COSC was founded but run by the Swiss for the Swiss brands only.

Check out the regulator adjuster on this one! and movement finish. That's real quality and there own movement test, to a much higher spec than the Swiss COSC




mruhland31 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 03:12 AM   #59
TimeOnMyHands
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada
Watch: 16570
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio View Post
By contrast Rolex managed to sell a pile of white Milgauss' into the market with defectively printed dial text... /IMG_2412.jpg[/IMG]
That is a brutal 'oversight' in production.
TimeOnMyHands is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 03:17 AM   #60
greekbum
"TRF" Member
 
greekbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Real Name: Nikos
Location: Florida
Watch: Rolex GMT 16750
Posts: 8,414
There is a reason I've started to collect vintage seiko divers.....Rolex now IMHO is a jewelry brand name with the current pricing. $for$ tool watch hands down the seiko is the best but Rolex has the recognition. For a couple of hundred you can buy a seiko monster. It's an awesome watch for the money.
__________________
Follow Me On Instagram @nickgogas

Original Owner ROLEX 16750 GMT Daily Wearer For Over 13,000 Days And Counting
greekbum is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

Asset Appeal

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.