16710 question

[Aventura]

I want to get a 16710 Pepsi but with 3186 movement. This start with some serial letter or I have to open it to see the movement?

[Z-Sub]

If it's M serial, it's got 3186
For Late Z's it could be either 3186 or 3185

[Z-Sub]

Also you can do a wiggle test as well. When you change the hours hand on the GMT, if the 24 hour red hand moves a lot then it's 3185. If it barely moves, then you have 3186 movement.

[77T]

I also read in another thread that if the seller has a warranty card (not a paper certificate) then the movement inside would be 3186.

But what is the real difference in terms of owning a Pepsi with 3186 vs. 3185? Either movement provides a lifetime of accurate timekeeping...

[nauticajoe]

An "M" serial is your safe bet.

Happy Hunting!

[joe100]

Do not pay extra for a 3186. I've seen some crazy markups and they're not worth it. I'd rather have a recently serviced 3185 than a 3186 without. It's your money but you aren't getting much more for your money.

[Z-Sub]

Originally Posted by 77T

I also read in another thread that if the seller has a warranty card (not a paper certificate) then the movement inside would be 3186.

But what is the real difference in terms of owning a Pepsi with 3186 vs. 3185? Either movement provides a lifetime of accurate timekeeping...

I doubt it. Many later Z-serials have warranty card (I had one, Z7) and it definitely had 3185.

[roger0770]

why not get the 116710? it's got the 3186 for sure.

[Andad]

Pull the crown out to the date setting position. On a 3186 movement one turn of the crown will move the hour hand 8 hours. On a 3185 movement it will only move 5 hours.
The wiggle movement is hard to judge.
All 'M's and late Z8.......'s are 3186 IMO.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by roger0770

why not get the 116710? it's got the 3186 for sure.

But why pay more for the same movement in a different case?

Ah....bracelet/clasp upgrade, maxi dial, big case, etc.

Might as well go TT.

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by joe100

Do not pay extra for a 3186. I've seen some crazy markups and they're not worth it. I'd rather have a recently serviced 3185 than a 3186 without. It's your money but you aren't getting much more for your money.

Hi Air King could it be rarity that people are looking for? I mean Rolex fans loves the small differences in their watches, hence all these MKI, II, III thingy..

[padi56]

Originally Posted by joe100

Do not pay extra for a 3186. I've seen some crazy markups and they're not worth it. I'd rather have a recently serviced 3185 than a 3186 without. It's your money but you aren't getting much more for your money.

Have to agree and the 3186 has now been modded into a 3187 other than the slightly more precise second time setting the 3186 its still a modded 3185,and the only way to check 100% sure its a 3186 is get the back off

[padi56]

Originally Posted by shou.biao.kuang

Hi Air King could it be rarity that people are looking for? I mean Rolex fans loves the small differences in their watches, hence all these MKI, II, III thingy..

Nothing is rare with Rolex watches just some made in smaller numbers, something that's rare in my book is something that's made in less than a hundred units.And not in the hundreds or even thousands of MK1 2,3 dials or flat font, square font, or any other font.

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by padi56

Nothing is rare with Rolex watches just some made in smaller numbers, something that's rare in my book is something that's made in less than a hundred units.And not in the hundreds or even thousands of MK1 2,3 dials or flat font, square font, or any other font.

So in your opinion and based on your years of reading, what model(s) would you consider to be rarity?

[Casey VP-26]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Pull the crown out to the date setting position. On a 3186 movement one turn of the crown will move the hour hand 8 hours. On a 3185 movement it will only move 5 hours.
The wiggle movement is hard to judge.
All 'M's and late Z8.......'s are 3186 IMO.

Great Advice. If your watch passes this test, IMHO there is no reason to have the case back removed. The change in the number of hour jumps is do to the changing of gears in the two movements, and as far as I know a gear is a positive.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by shou.biao.kuang

So in your opinion and based on your years of reading, what model(s) would you consider to be rarity?

Try finding one of the left hand wind Rolex watches there were a few produced now they are rare Rolex watches.And a small list below some of these could be considered as rare Rolex watches, and not like the modern day very mass produced watches.

This is just a small list of the most popular collectible there are a few more.

Model 6429 Steel Oyster Commando.
Any early 1930s- 40s Rolex Prince.
Any of the old Rolex chronographs 6236 etc
COMEX Submariner or SD
Early cushion case bubblebacks.
Model 6202 Turn-O-Graph.
Any Rolex Military Submariner like say 5510.
Single Red double red Subs SD.
Early Rolex Kew A class Oyster chronometers.
Any of the left hand wind Rolex watches Subs or Datejust.
Any early Milguas watches.(Perhaps one day the modern one but very doubtfull)
Rare very early GMTs.
Orange hand Explorers
Early 1960s Explorer dates like the Airkings TT are very rare
Daytona 6239 6263/5 etc.
Early Rolex watches made only for Canadian market
1939-45 military watches
Rolex Turtle Timer
Airking dates with the roulette date wheels
Rolex Date and Triple date with Moon-phase.
Rolex Viceroy.
Rolex Tudor military subs.
Any Rolex watch with say a Sultans emblem.
Cartier/Tiffany branded sports Rolex watches.
Panama Canal special Rolex subs now they are rare.
Rolex Tudor Monte Carlo Chronograph ref 7159
Rolex Tudor ranger alarm.
Most early Rolex subs.6200/6536/6205/5/6538/5512/3.
First Oyster quartz 5100 Beta 21 movement.
Mechanical DJ movement in OysterQuartz type case
Oysterquartz in a DJ oyster case.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by shou.biao.kuang

So in your opinion and based on your years of reading, what model(s) would you consider to be rarity?

16710's with a 3186 movement are not "rare", there were simply fewer of them made than those with the 3185.

The recent idea that anything even slightly different from one example to another (such as the modified 3186) commands a premium and elevates that example above all others is a false notion. Rolex has been changing movements inside watches for decades with little to no fanfare.

It's going to be interesting to watch the GMT/3186 as it goes into the future (and beyond the Internet hype stages) because no Rolex has ever been elevated to "collector status" simply because the movement is slightly different from earlier examples..

[mlotus95]

great info

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by padi56

Try finding one of the left hand wind Rolex watches there were a few produced now they are rare Rolex watches.And a small list below some of these could be considered as rare Rolex watches, and not like the modern day very mass produced watches.

This is just a small list of the most popular collectible there are a few more.

Model 6429 Steel Oyster Commando.
Any early 1930s- 40s Rolex Prince.
Any of the old Rolex chronographs 6236 etc
COMEX Submariner or SD
Early cushion case bubblebacks.
Model 6202 Turn-O-Graph.
Any Rolex Military Submariner like say 5510.
Single Red double red Subs SD.
Early Rolex Kew A class Oyster chronometers.
Any of the left hand wind Rolex watches Subs or Datejust.
Any early Milguas watches.(Perhaps one day the modern one but very doubtfull)
Rare very early GMTs.
Orange hand Explorers
Early 1960s Explorer dates like the Airkings TT are very rare
Daytona 6239 6263/5 etc.
Early Rolex watches made only for Canadian market
1939-45 military watches
Rolex Turtle Timer
Airking dates with the roulette date wheels
Rolex Date and Triple date with Moon-phase.
Rolex Viceroy.
Rolex Tudor military subs.
Any Rolex watch with say a Sultans emblem.
Cartier/Tiffany branded sports Rolex watches.
Panama Canal special Rolex subs now they are rare.
Rolex Tudor Monte Carlo Chronograph ref 7159
Rolex Tudor ranger alarm.
Most early Rolex subs.6200/6536/6205/5/6538/5512/3.
First Oyster quartz 5100 Beta 21 movement.
Mechanical DJ movement in OysterQuartz type case
Oysterquartz in a DJ oyster case.

Woh, that's quite a list here! thanks much
I will keep these in mind and change the mindset to acquire them, if within my means.

The issue that many (or at least me) have with collecting these vintages is matching the correct case serial number to the correct dial, bracelets, etc. These take loads of experience and reading before you are able to ensure that its not a "franken" watch. If one was to land on one such watch, it is both disappointing and heart-aching since efforts and money were invloved.

And from where I am from, very few have such well developed knowledge.

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by Tools

16710's with a 3186 movement are not "rare", there were simply fewer of them made than those with the 3185.

The recent idea that anything even slightly different from one example to another (such as the modified 3186) commands a premium and elevates that example above all others is a false notion. Rolex has been changing movements inside watches for decades with little to no fanfare.

It's going to be interesting to watch the GMT/3186 as it goes into the future (and beyond the Internet hype stages) because no Rolex has ever been elevated to "collector status" simply because the movement is slightly different from earlier examples..

Yap, you are right to mention of the hyped-up premium for this watch. At the so-called craze peak few years back, they were commanding really high premium of above USD12,000 for a new set! Now they are likely lower.

[rolio]

I have a late model Z, and at servicing last year, Rolex paperwork certified that it was a 3186 movement. I don't know if that's any guarantee, but it's a good possibility that the Zs have that movement.

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by Tools

16710's with a 3186 movement are not "rare", there were simply fewer of them made than those with the 3185.

The recent idea that anything even slightly different from one example to another (such as the modified 3186) commands a premium and elevates that example above all others is a false notion. Rolex has been changing movements inside watches for decades with little to no fanfare.

It's going to be interesting to watch the GMT/3186 as it goes into the future (and beyond the Internet hype stages) because no Rolex has ever been elevated to "collector status" simply because the movement is slightly different from earlier examples..

Hi Tools, any example(s) you can come up with that Rolex had done this before? I mean the changing of movements meant for a later series. Thanks in advance :)

[Tools]

Originally Posted by shou.biao.kuang

Hi Tools, any example(s) you can come up with that Rolex had done this before? I mean the changing of movements meant for a later series. Thanks in advance :)

You have missed the boat here... The 3186 was not "meant for a later series".. The 3185 was changed slightly, which is common with Rolex, and this 3186 movement went into all dual-time watches, including the Explorer II's and the GMT II 16710's when 3185's were depleted. It is the GMT that was changed in 2005 and fitted with the modified 3186 which continues today and was also used in the Exp II 16570 until this year when the new dual-time 3187 movement was fitted..

Rolex changed from the 3000 movements in 1989 to the modified 3130's with no fanfare affecting OP's, Subs, and Air-kings.. They changed from the 3035 to the 3135 affecting Sub Dates, DJ's, and SD's, and so on.. They have even stuck the new parachrom hairsprings in those movements without changes or notification... up-dating movements is a common practice and has been done since the beginning..

[alexxelor]

late Z8 warranty card and M


my M3xxxxx new old stock

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by Tools

You have missed the boat here... The 3186 was not "meant for a later series".. The 3185 was changed slightly, which is common with Rolex, and this 3186 movement went into all dual-time watches, including the Explorer II's and the GMT II 16710's when 3185's were depleted. It is the GMT that was changed in 2005 and fitted with the modified 3186 which continues today and was also used in the Exp II 16570 until this year when the new dual-time 3187 movement was fitted..

Rolex changed from the 3000 movements in 1989 to the modified 3130's with no fanfare affecting OP's, Subs, and Air-kings.. They changed from the 3035 to the 3135 affecting Sub Dates, DJ's, and SD's, and so on.. They have even stuck the new parachrom hairsprings in those movements without changes or notification... up-dating movements is a common practice and has been done since the beginning..

I see where you are coming from. Based on what you said, it is very much a hype up thingy than Rolex doing it on "purpose" to create collectability of its watches, particularly the last of the old GMT II. Thanks heaps.

[Billywiz]

Why?

[shou.biao.kuang]

Hi,

Anyone any idea when was the last batch of "M" series 16710 with the 3186 movement? Some mentioned that the full "M" series has 16710-3186 but I doubt so. Thus far, I have seen case number up to M36x only.

A 16710-3186 M9xx? Not likely IMHO