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Old 23 December 2016, 09:10 AM   #1
kippyhunt
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1962 RG 1803 with RED "Day Date" Dial - genuine or ?

Hi All
I am keen to buy this watch but in 20+ years of collecting vintage Rolex I have NEVER come across such a dial - did they in fact exist OR has somebody (albeit very neatly and convincingly) simply painted over the normal white lettering to add a premium to the watch price?
I look forward to hearing from the esteemed experts our there before making a huge and costly mistake - the Seller alleges 100% authentic dial just very rare ...
Many thanks in advance...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DD 1.jpg (87.5 KB, 692 views)
File Type: jpg DD 2.jpg (71.4 KB, 696 views)
File Type: jpg DD 3.jpg (75.5 KB, 694 views)
File Type: jpg DD 4.jpg (76.0 KB, 694 views)
File Type: jpg DD 5.jpg (79.7 KB, 700 views)
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Old 23 December 2016, 09:36 AM   #2
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Looks great!
I've never seen the red on the dial before, but my gut tells me it is genuine
The "pie-pan" dial is correct and appears to be in excellent vintage condition for its age.
Depending on price this could be a really nice purchase.
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Old 23 December 2016, 10:04 AM   #3
kippyhunt
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Price

Around the USD9k mark ...
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Old 23 December 2016, 10:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kippyhunt View Post
Hi All
I am keen to buy this watch but in 20+ years of collecting vintage Rolex I have NEVER come across such a dial - did they in fact exist OR has somebody (albeit very neatly and convincingly) simply painted over the normal white lettering to add a premium to the watch price?
I look forward to hearing from the esteemed experts our there before making a huge and costly mistake - the Seller alleges 100% authentic dial just very rare ...
Many thanks in advance...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lol-x View Post
Looks great!
I've never seen the red on the dial before, but my gut tells me it is genuine
The "pie-pan" dial is correct and appears to be in excellent vintage condition for its age.
Depending on price this could be a really nice purchase.
agree original and a nice piece

to the op its pretty darn rare but original red lettering appeared on early models on the bottom of the dial in general usually model 6511 sometimes with a depth rating at the top of the dial under rolex, then disappeared on the 6611, I have only heard whispers amongst day date collectors about such dials it is so rare, no one has had one to examine, are you buying it ?
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Old 23 December 2016, 11:50 AM   #5
kippyhunt
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Whew?!

Just bought it!
Will post more pics when it arrives ... much obliged for the expert opinions which I trust 100% - seems like I may have "lucked out" on an almost unique piece - happiness is!
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Old 23 December 2016, 02:59 PM   #6
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Looks very cool!


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Old 23 December 2016, 06:59 PM   #7
Richard Carver
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The hands are unique as well. Known as 'cigarette boat' hands for the similarity to shape of the cigarette boats used to smuggle drugs off Florida back in the day they were only used on new watches in 1964. They are seen as replacement hands in 65-66. If that's a '62 then a previous owner has sourced them for their rarity. They are so rare it's difficult to assign value but I would work a deal for them :)

The crown and bezel are possibly yellow gold and the dial and hands as well. If so, it would probably be easier to source a yellow gold DD than chase down RG parts and the dial and hands would never be right. If there is additional confirmation on the dial it would certainly be worth the effort to find a proper home for the dial and hands.

The only red writing I've seen on a DD was on the original 6XXX series but I've also learned my lesson on saying never about Rolex.

This is a '64 I used to own. This is the watch the hands were 'discovered' on back in 2007.

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Old 23 December 2016, 10:17 PM   #8
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Very nice DD Richard!!

Congrats Down Under!!! Was it a local purchase you made in New Zealand? Sometimes one can find some rare examples in these far away countries.
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Old 23 December 2016, 10:39 PM   #9
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Anything Rolex with red writing is desirable with collectors - Enjoy it
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Old 23 December 2016, 10:45 PM   #10
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Great find & big congrats :thumbs:
May I know the serial number?
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Old 24 December 2016, 02:18 AM   #11
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That's a beauty - wear it in good health!

I don't think the case is RG either. Rather it has developed the reddish patina that older YG Rolex's developed when left in storage for long periods. If so it will buff off with a soft cloth.
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Old 24 December 2016, 02:46 AM   #12
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Info

Hi all - thanks for the kind words!
I have requested serial number.
On its way from a dealer in Germany actually who alleges all
Original and definitely rose gold.
Not cheap at E9500 but worth every penny in my view!
I'm excited!
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Old 24 December 2016, 04:39 AM   #13
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Wow !
Looks amazing
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Old 24 December 2016, 06:53 AM   #14
kippyhunt
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Serial number

879836 - could be 1964 according to some databases?
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Old 24 December 2016, 07:24 AM   #15
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I checked the databaase at the VRF and it comes up as a '63 which is great, the case might have sat in inventory a few months before final assembly and got the later hands. Really good news.

That eases my mind about the apparent color difference in gold. Look forward to seeing the watch, you'd better not disappear! :)

If you don't mind, I'd like to check another source on your dial.
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Old 24 December 2016, 07:52 AM   #16
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Checking

Thanks Richard - please feel free to check anything you like - I just hope and pray that this story is not too good to be true ...
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Old 24 December 2016, 07:57 AM   #17
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I still think it is a yellow gold 1803 with early signs of the rainbow patina that these watches develop. Look closely at the case just below the bezel and you'll see that the color is more yellow than rose. Also look at the fifth picture, you can see the rainbow patina developing on the upper right corner of the case. Here is some info on this phenomenon:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...inbow+patina--

I was puzzled by the color of my 1807 because sometimes it looks like rose gold, and other times, yellow gold - so I took it the local AD and did a comparison - one the left a modern Rolex yellow gold; on the right a modern Rolex rose gold. The 1807 is clearly not rose, but it's also different than the modern yellow gold- but I wouldn't sweat it - the real value in the OP's watch is the hands and dial, not the gold type of the case.
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Old 24 December 2016, 09:06 AM   #18
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When you get this watch please post detailed pics on the dial, for some of us it's quite exciting cheers interested to see if it's yg with patina or rose gold


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Old 24 December 2016, 11:32 AM   #19
kippyhunt
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Will most certainly do so David - for me it's more than exciting!
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Old 25 December 2016, 02:29 PM   #20
kippyhunt
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Check out the comments on the other vintage rolex forum - I am absolutely fascinated how opinions of experts can differ so radically - so far the "score" is about 6- 2 in favour of genuine - interesting indeed ... probably the best part is the tenuous logic that just because it has not been seen before it cannot be real ... just my 2 cents ...
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Old 25 December 2016, 02:35 PM   #21
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... somebody should post photos of the Font of the very early datejusts of the Low to mid 1950s compared to that of datejusts from the 60s onwards I suppose because the early Font was radically different this means a refinished dial? Not quite ...
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Old 27 February 2017, 05:53 PM   #22
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Can we get an update? Thanks!
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Old 28 February 2017, 12:15 AM   #23
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My two cents to add to the discussion is that the early 18K alloy is qualitatively different from the more modern yellow gold. It has a warmer look, unmistakable and very alluring.
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Old 28 February 2017, 12:24 AM   #24
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The OP has been on the page as soon as yesterday so im wondering why he hasnt posted pics of the watch yet? I really hope he does.
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Old 28 February 2017, 06:37 AM   #25
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The watch was purchased on December 22, 2016 and it has to get from Germany to New Zealand...must be traveling by cigarette boat! LOL
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Old 28 February 2017, 08:41 AM   #26
kippyhunt
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Not Good

Hi All

Long story short - refinished dial so the sale was aborted - saved myself a heap of money - long discussion on VRF on the topic with several esteemed experts unequivocally stating not an original dial ...

Apologies for not updating this Forum ...
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Old 28 February 2017, 04:52 PM   #27
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Happy to hear you weren't scammed!

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Old 1 March 2017, 01:12 AM   #28
Nunez. Jacob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kippyhunt View Post
Hi All

Long story short - refinished dial so the sale was aborted - saved myself a heap of money - long discussion on VRF on the topic with several esteemed experts unequivocally stating not an original dial ...

Apologies for not updating this Forum ...
still a nice piece what was the cost of it just wondering?
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