Anyone else frustrated with AP boutiques?

[T3F]

Hi all,

I've recently been wanting to add to my AP collection and contacted the boutique I've bought two watches from -- the Bal Harbour one that's owned by AP itself -- inquiring about a few pieces I'm interested in. Some of these were rare and I didn't expect anything -- the ceramic perpetual and tourbillon, the 15202BC, the 15407s in both metals -- and I was predictably shot down. Others, though, I didn't think would be that hard, especially given I've bought two watches from them before and have a solid, though certainly not VIP-level purchase history. I was told "no" on absolutely everything from the Royal Oak line -- no 15550s, 15450s, 26331STs, 26315s in any metal, 15202s in any metal, perpetuals in any metal, or the new "evolutive" dial tourbillons in any metal. All I was offered were a few Offshores and gold 26331s, but my ~6.5" wrist doesn't support the Offshores. I like the 26331OR, but it's definitely not my first choice from AP, and I'm not inclined to buy one because it didn't seem that it would help much as far as getting anything else down the line (might as well go grey and pocket the savings at that point).

Has anyone else had a similar experience recently? They were super helpful as recently as a year ago, then it seemed like everything flipped. It's very frustrating because I'm an established customer, I love the brand, and they literally will not sell me anything that I can wear (aside from the gold 26331s). I get that the market is hot, that my account isn't that big, and that there will be pieces that I can't get because of that, but this seems a bit ridiculous to me.

If I had to posit why this is the case, it looks to me like a lot of the "VIP" clients are grey dealers -- for example, about 200 26579CEs have been produced (producing 100/year, have been in production for 2 years), and 42(!!!) are listed for sale on Chrono24 (a number of others are probably listed on other platforms, and others were also previously listed and had sold) right now. For the record, I don't think I'm qualified for that piece where I stand now, but the fact that so many are ending up on the grey market, as well as the fact that I can't get anything even though I'm a decent client, leads me to believe that resellers are buying up everything they can from these boutiques, building huge accounts, thus blocking any "regular" customers from getting anything because they have higher priority.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this, similar complaints, or suggestions on what I could try/where I could go to actually buy an AP?

[AshAP]

I’m surprised to hear this, the boutique experience in the UK is totally different. Here the UK boutique really looks after new clients (and old clients too). I have first hand experience with this as I introduced a friend to them this time last year and they’ve sold him some killer watches, obviously things like the 15407 they’re saying no to but they’ve been very accommodating with watches that he’s asked for.


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[msm2]

Are you working with your same sales person at the boutique? I think if you went in with a specific watch you really want they would help try to get it for you. I personally do not think it helps going in asking for all the "hot" references (from time only / chrono / tourbillon) looking to get any of them as it comes across as you would want it just to flip.

Do remember everything listed on Chrono24 is not necessary in stock ready to go. A ton of grey dealers post to gain exposure and when you call it "just sold" but they can find you another one...

[T3F]

Originally Posted by AshAP

I’m surprised to hear this, the boutique experience in the UK is totally different. Here the UK boutique really looks after new clients (and old clients too). I have first hand experience with this as I introduced a friend to them this time last year and they’ve sold him some killer watches, obviously things like the 15407 they’re saying no to but they’ve been very accommodating with watches that he’s asked for.


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Mine was fantastic at first, too, which is part of why I'm so stunned at the reversal! They sold me a blue dial 15400ST with no purchase history (I never even stepped foot -- and still haven't -- in the boutique, as there isn't one anywhere near where I live) back in December 2017, then a 15202ST in July 2018. Maybe they decided I got lucky enough and don't deserve anything else? Not sure, but it's really surprising and seems pretty weird to me.

[AshAP]

Did you sell either of those?


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[T3F]

Originally Posted by msm2

Are you working with your same sales person at the boutique? I think if you went in with a specific watch you really want they would help try to get it for you. I personally do not think it helps going in asking for all the "hot" references (from time only / chrono / tourbillon) looking to get any of them as it comes across as you would want it just to flip.

Do remember everything listed on Chrono24 is not necessary in stock ready to go. A ton of grey dealers post to gain exposure and when you call it "just sold" but they can find you another one...

My old salesperson handed me off to a new one for some reason, which might be part of it. I did ask for a few (15202OR, 26315ST) specifically at the start, and mentioned offhand that I'd love some of the hard-to-get ones at some point but knew they were tough and that I had no expectations of getting one soon. After my initial requests were denied, I brought up other stuff I'd be interested in, got denied again, then just asked what I could get because that seemed easier than going down a list and getting denied for everything.

[AshAP]

I can’t see why they would restrict the sale of a tourbillon as boutiques don’t discount and I wouldn’t have thought that it’s a watch that would easily flip.


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[T3F]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Did you sell either of those?


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Nope, still have both and will forever. I'd happily prove it to them, too. Maybe they assumed I did, but they never even asked -- I just kept hearing that "the boutique's established clients get priority," which further pissed me off internally (I was externally very nice, because I know getting mad wouldn't help my case ) because I am, technically, an established client.

[Flying Doctor]

Have to agree with ASH - UK AP experience is they are helpful.........

FD.

[SMD]

My only thought is that what you asked for has been allocated already as those tend to happen in January. NYC is bad but not awful. I was there Friday and they have the Ghost in the case and available for sale, and a few others but most everything else has been allocated. 15500 (all dials), 15450 (all dials), 38 mm ROC is not out yet, not sure about 41mm ROC. DM if you are interested in a NYC contact. Otherwise, there is always the secondary market for them.

PS -- Chrono24 listings are usually just bait. There is no way there are 42 independent listings for the Ce Perp.

[AshAP]

Strange, it’s almost as though they have mistaken you for someone else. I’d say it’s time to try a new boutique because your existing relationship doesn’t seem to be counting for anything. Is it worth going over the salespersons head and trying to deal with the manager.


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[roxobox]

Originally Posted by T3F

Hi all,

I've recently been wanting to add to my AP collection and contacted the boutique I've bought two watches from -- the Bal Harbour one that's owned by AP itself -- inquiring about a few pieces I'm interested in. Some of these were rare and I didn't expect anything -- the ceramic perpetual and tourbillon, the 15202BC, the 15407s in both metals -- and I was predictably shot down. Others, though, I didn't think would be that hard, especially given I've bought two watches from them before and have a solid, though certainly not VIP-level purchase history. I was told "no" on absolutely everything from the Royal Oak line -- no 15550s, 15450s, 26331STs, 26315s in any metal, 15202s in any metal, perpetuals in any metal, or the new "evolutive" dial tourbillons in any metal. All I was offered were a few Offshores and gold 26331s, but my ~6.5" wrist doesn't support the Offshores. I like the 26331OR, but it's definitely not my first choice from AP, and I'm not inclined to buy one because it didn't seem that it would help much as far as getting anything else down the line (might as well go grey and pocket the savings at that point).

Has anyone else had a similar experience recently? They were super helpful as recently as a year ago, then it seemed like everything flipped. It's very frustrating because I'm an established customer, I love the brand, and they literally will not sell me anything that I can wear (aside from the gold 26331s). I get that the market is hot, that my account isn't that big, and that there will be pieces that I can't get because of that, but this seems a bit ridiculous to me.

If I had to posit why this is the case, it looks to me like a lot of the "VIP" clients are grey dealers -- for example, about 200 26579CEs have been produced (producing 100/year, have been in production for 2 years), and 42(!!!) are listed for sale on Chrono24 (a number of others are probably listed on other platforms, and others were also previously listed and had sold) right now. For the record, I don't think I'm qualified for that piece where I stand now, but the fact that so many are ending up on the grey market, as well as the fact that I can't get anything even though I'm a decent client, leads me to believe that resellers are buying up everything they can from these boutiques, building huge accounts, thus blocking any "regular" customers from getting anything because they have higher priority.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this, similar complaints, or suggestions on what I could try/where I could go to actually buy an AP?

I posted a thread about my difficult interactions with Boutiques that ended up being several pages long and are very similar experiences to yourself.

You're not alone, though I managed to get lucky recently, will be making a post about that soon. My luck had nothing to do with a boutique though, just a friendly AD.

I'm glad to hear I'm not alone.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by T3F

Nope, still have both and will forever. I'd happily prove it to them, too. Maybe they assumed I did, but they never even asked -- I just kept hearing that "the boutique's established clients get priority," which further pissed me off internally (I was externally very nice, because I know getting mad wouldn't help my case ) because I am, technically, an established client.

Hard to establish yourself as a client if you can't buy anything

[AK797]

We know AP want to go the exclusivity route so I'm not surprised some Boutiques and ADs have been instructed to be tight with all but the VVIPs to help create the scarcity/hype effect while price rises still have not done so.

[jumpmandk]

In general it seems as though the model for US boutiques seem to be silo models - in the sense that while there is appreciation for the brand by acquiring pieces across different stores, the Westime operated boutiques do business by purchase history purely by individual location.

So if you buy from the Brickell store, it doesn't give you any status or pull with LV or LA..

Unfortunately, the boutique operated stores in LA and NY, given the sheer income per capita in those 2 cities, makes it as difficult to try to get anything beyond 15400/500/ROC/ROO..

You may be able to score a steel or gold variant perpetual, but likely nothing beyond that.

The stores/boutiques abroad are more accommodating in my experience as well

[Vaxe]

I recently asked 2 ADs about the 26579CE and both whispered “I can get one for you but not at retail, which I know you won’t like”. One offered to sell at $150k, and these are authorized dealers. So I think this can be fixed if AP transitions to full boutique or cut out the shady ones selling for a premium under the table.

Originally Posted by T3F

Hi all,

I've recently been wanting to add to my AP collection and contacted the boutique I've bought two watches from -- the Bal Harbour one that's owned by AP itself -- inquiring about a few pieces I'm interested in. Some of these were rare and I didn't expect anything -- the ceramic perpetual and tourbillon, the 15202BC, the 15407s in both metals -- and I was predictably shot down. Others, though, I didn't think would be that hard, especially given I've bought two watches from them before and have a solid, though certainly not VIP-level purchase history. I was told "no" on absolutely everything from the Royal Oak line -- no 15550s, 15450s, 26331STs, 26315s in any metal, 15202s in any metal, perpetuals in any metal, or the new "evolutive" dial tourbillons in any metal. All I was offered were a few Offshores and gold 26331s, but my ~6.5" wrist doesn't support the Offshores. I like the 26331OR, but it's definitely not my first choice from AP, and I'm not inclined to buy one because it didn't seem that it would help much as far as getting anything else down the line (might as well go grey and pocket the savings at that point).

Has anyone else had a similar experience recently? They were super helpful as recently as a year ago, then it seemed like everything flipped. It's very frustrating because I'm an established customer, I love the brand, and they literally will not sell me anything that I can wear (aside from the gold 26331s). I get that the market is hot, that my account isn't that big, and that there will be pieces that I can't get because of that, but this seems a bit ridiculous to me.

If I had to posit why this is the case, it looks to me like a lot of the "VIP" clients are grey dealers -- for example, about 200 26579CEs have been produced (producing 100/year, have been in production for 2 years), and 42(!!!) are listed for sale on Chrono24 (a number of others are probably listed on other platforms, and others were also previously listed and had sold) right now. For the record, I don't think I'm qualified for that piece where I stand now, but the fact that so many are ending up on the grey market, as well as the fact that I can't get anything even though I'm a decent client, leads me to believe that resellers are buying up everything they can from these boutiques, building huge accounts, thus blocking any "regular" customers from getting anything because they have higher priority.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this, similar complaints, or suggestions on what I could try/where I could go to actually buy an AP?

[vlps]

Rolex, PP, AP are all like this as of late

[T3F]

Originally Posted by vlps

Rolex, PP, AP are all like this as of late

In my experience, this is worse. You have to play the game with Rolex and Patek, but with AP, it seems like they don’t even want to play.

[thekman]

I have said this before, I think with AP it just depends on the day and the salesperson you talk to.
I personally have placed a deposit on a black 15500 at the NYC Boutique last March. It was my first time ever setting foot in that store and likely the very last time for a long time as I don't plan on any other big purchases. I have also seen several incomings by newbie AP owners for 15500s in the past two months.
The only thing I can think of is that allocations for the hot pieces in 2019 are all gone. You might have better luck checking again at the end of the year for 2020 allocations.



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[Fat_ninja]

Don’t feel bad. They won’t sell me a 15407st neither

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by T3F

In my experience, this is worse. You have to play the game with Rolex and Patek, but with AP, it seems like they don’t even want to play.

Well, I remember you starting a similar thread to this in the Rolex forum, also counting Chrono24 listings for hard-to-get sports watches.

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by T3F

My old salesperson handed me off to a new one for some reason, which might be part of it. I did ask for a few (15202OR, 26315ST) specifically at the start, and mentioned offhand that I'd love some of the hard-to-get ones at some point but knew they were tough and that I had no expectations of getting one soon. After my initial requests were denied, I brought up other stuff I'd be interested in, got denied again, then just asked what I could get because that seemed easier than going down a list and getting denied for everything.

Based on your first posts in this thread, it does sound like you went down a list of watches they can sell all day every day. They sold you two highly desirable Royal Oaks last year without purchase history, and you are going down their list, asking about every other hot Royal Oak.

I’ll trust that you still have your ROs, but I’m not surprised if they are suspicious.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by T3F

In my experience, this is worse. You have to play the game with Rolex and Patek, but with AP, it seems like they don’t even want to play.

You are reading far too much into one anecdote.

[GB-man]

That sucks. I would make an In person visit wearing your jumbo and talk with your old salesperson. Everyone could use a trip to Miami Beach !

[CoveWatch]

Seems pretty odd that they won’t even sell or get you a ROC or 37mm RO..even new guests can get on the list for those

[T3F]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

Well, I remember you starting a similar thread to this in the Rolex forum, also counting Chrono24 listings for hard-to-get sports watches.

That's not exactly what I did, but yeah, I did start one where I speculated about why certain watches seem very "scarce," my guess being that a good amount of ADs sold their hot watches mainly to the grey market. There are a few differences, the first being that there are way more Rolex dealers, so even though some won't engage, it's possible to find one that will (whereas there's only a handful of AP boutiques in the U.S.). Still, I do think the situation is similar-ish.

Originally Posted by RolexZen

Based on your first posts in this thread, it does sound like you went down a list of watches they can sell all day every day. They sold you two highly desirable Royal Oaks last year without purchase history, and you are going down their list, asking about every other hot Royal Oak.

I’ll trust that you still have your ROs, but I’m not surprised if they are suspicious.

Sorry if that's what it seemed like I did, because it isn't, exactly for the reason you stated. I asked about two first: the 15202OR, which is by no means a hot watch, selling for $10-15k under retail, and the 26315, which is a new watch that's not out yet, so it's unclear how "hot" it really is, and it's not exactly limited production. When I was turned down, I went back with 2-3 more models, again not the typical "hot" ones, was turned down again, and once this process repeated itself a few times, I finally asked what I could actually buy. The really hot ones -- e.g., the ceramic perpetual, openworked, etc. -- I mentioned as a long-term goal and made it clear that I knew I couldn't get them now, but wanted them to know that was something I'd eventually be on the lookout for down the line.

I would understand their reaction if I did send over a list of hot models and asked for any/all of them, but that's not what happened.

Originally Posted by SMD

You are reading far too much into one anecdote.

Perhaps, but I visited Beverly Hills and Las Vegas and had basically the same experience, which was more understandable because I had no purchase history. New York took my name for a 26315, but said it was unlikely, and the Hamptons told me they couldn't do anything unless I was local (which was understandable, if a bit frustrating, as there are no boutiques or dealers remotely close to me so it's not like I have many options).

[drgoro]

Nothing but great experiences w my AP boutique!

[Soly20]

Thats surprising. My AP boutique is very cooperative and is willing to try to get me any watch that I want, even the SS ones. I just picked up 15500ST blue dial (incoming thread soon). Also they are working on getting me a 15451ST also blue dial for my wife.

[kingofthehill]

APUK are exemplary and cannot be recommended highly enough.

[masterserg]

Not at all. Bal Harbour has been nothing but great with me.