the Coronavirus outbreak thread

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by superdog

agree. I am not overly worried about myself. just stating some of what I am doing and what I am thinking.

curious though that the worlds' experts are not putting out this information. that people are not researching this.

it is similar to the problem with diabetes and obesity in the US. Instead of actually taking accountability for ones self and actions, we are creating new and different drugs. the government should be promoting a healthy diet and lifestyle not pouring money into a broken healthcare solution that just kicks the can down the road.

this virus appears to be attacking those very same people that should have been getting healthier based on their diabetes rather than taking pills to mask it.

its as if everyone would prefer to just sit around and let someone else solve their problems. I simply don't understand this mindset.

yes, I can barely tie my own shoes so I will buy slip ons instead. that is the mentality here. Instead of actually pushing yourself away from the table and effecting positive changes.

in this situation, we are literally right now locked away in our homes. Why exactly are government officials not promoting a health lifestyle??? why is there absolutely zero accountability for us as individuals.

because the vast majority are looking for some kind of handout or help or solution to be provided to them.

I think that expecting the government to provide heath advice is rather optimistic but rather naive.

Federal politicians need to accept bribes (donations) at the rate of $18,000 per day. They go into a special room and solicit them on a daily or twice a week basis. Every lobby from grains, sugar, soft drink, to milk to manufacturing, to Big Food, Pharma etc etc is paying them money. Most of what people in the US now eat is fake food, saturated with sugar and advertised a healthy.

So to expecting the government to offer anything meaningful is not going to happen.

Pharma is a major player in the medical field, and sponsors almost ALL medical studies, medical research facilities and medical schools as well as "information" to doctors.

In fact the movement to proper eating and health came NOT from the medical profession but from people who have a medical background and took it upon themselves to start research into what we are eating that is making us sick and obese. Usually from a personal quest.


A bit of info on who owns what, and of course they pay millions/billions to lobby groups every year.

https://www.lifecoachcode.com/2017/0...edia-internet/

[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by superdog

thats too smart for me.

All I am saying is the "experts" and the powers that be should be promoting what people can do to better themselves. Not all the doom and gloom. Yes, challenges abound. Of course. But clearly our population will benefit from a healthier fitter lifestyle.

stop eating so damned much. have fruit instead of a candy bar. there are bananas and apples and oranges in every bodega I have ever been in to. and I work in all the worst areas as I work in industrial parks across the country.

I am not perfect either. and I have been drinking at nights during all this crap. but I am getting sleep, I am exercising, and I am watching what I eat.

personal accountability goes a long way in life.

Seth I can sum it up as, we are collecting data right now, to be continued.

I agree that people need to be accountable for their actions and lifestyle. This crisis will force everyone's hands unfortunately. But now is better than never to adopt a healthier lifestyle. Everyone can exercise on the cheap with just the weight of the human body.

Diet is tougher, as a lot of the poorest among us live in food deserts where there may be 5 fast food options, but limited or no grocery stores. Dense urban areas are an exception. Dietary habits die hard. Not making excuses, but how is it possible to get a fully formed cheeseburger than a bundle of carrots? The ridiculous food subsidies in this country and the poor diets that engenders (and subsequent health problems) boggles the mind. Let alone the fact that many walk no further than from their car to their office and back in a given day.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I think that expecting the government to provide heath advice is rather optimistic but rather naive.

Federal politicians need to accept bribes (donations) at the rate of $18,000 per day. They go into a special room and solicit them on a daily or twice a week basis. Every lobby from grains, sugar, soft drink, to milk to manufacturing, to Big Food, Pharma etc etc is paying them money.

So to expecting the government to offer anything meaningful is not going to happen.

Pharma is a major player in the medical field, and sponsors almost ALL medical studies, medical research facilities and medical schools as well as "information" to doctors.

In fact the movement to proper eating and health came NOT from the medical profession but from people who have a medical background and took it upon themselves to start research into what we are eating that is making us sick and obese. Usually from a personal quest.


A bit of info on who owns what, and of course they pay millions/billions to lobby groups every year.

https://www.lifecoachcode.com/2017/0...edia-internet/

yes, because similar to Joey, they took an oath to help people.

naive yes. that is me to a tee. I always expect more from people than is realistic. that is why I am so often disappointed.

[Phooi]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

I agree. The perception is you either have it or you don't...but there does seem to be a case for viral load exposed to and level of illness.

I am not sure what the data is on that, but you do see doctors and nurses being exposed to a very high concentration and duration of exposure to virus and they can get very very ill..

So, again, my mask crusade does allow mitigation of viral load taken in as there is a barrier to block more virus from getting up you nose...

I don't see a path to balancing without masks for the general public...either commercially produced or homemade. Get something in front of your face holes.

There are current discussions by the CDC on the efficacy of using face masks for the general public. You can search for articles online.

I have a friend in Taiwan, a country that has CV19 under control, explained to me what their country implemented when CV19 occurred. One of their first acts were to put on face masks. In fact, the government provides face masks to its population.

In Taiwan, masks have become a socially acceptable practice after the SARS epidemic. It is so commonplace that people wear them even if you have any signs of being ill (ie., allergies, colds, etc.). People will get upset if you’re coughing and not wearing your mask.

All of this was an anecdote for the use of face masks. The problem in the US currently is the lack of supply of surgical masks. At this stage, all supply should go towards the frontline people (ie., healthcare workers, essential services) who needs them the most. For the rest of the populace, I think some sort of face mask wouldn’t hurt. I think the challenge would be messaging it in a way that minimizes panic and hoarding.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by superdog

thats too smart for me.

All I am saying is the "experts" and the powers that be should be promoting what people can do to better themselves. Not all the doom and gloom. Yes, challenges abound. Of course. But clearly our population will benefit from a healthier fitter lifestyle.

stop eating so damned much. have fruit instead of a candy bar. there are bananas and apples and oranges in every bodega I have ever been in to. and I work in all the worst areas as I work in industrial parks across the country.

I am not perfect either. and I have been drinking at nights during all this crap. but I am getting sleep, I am exercising, and I am watching what I eat.

personal accountability goes a long way in life.

Same can be said about financial stability.

I can't count how many times people have been told to save money for a shtf fund. At least 6 months, in case, well a nasty virus starts attacking us and the economy takes a dive..

How many people did that? To me, that is a factor in stopping this disease as eating too many twinkies..maybe not as much, but still a factor as it is clearly limiting our options in terms of resolutions.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Same can be said about financial stability.

I can't count how many times people have been told to save money for a shtf fund. At least 6 months, in case, well a nasty virus starts attacking us and the economy takes a dive..

How many people did that? To me, that is a factor in stopping this disease as eating too many twinkies..maybe not as much, but still a factor as it is clearly limiting our options in terms of resolutions.

I agree with you 100%. Finally. Whew. I went years agreeing with you on everything, and then nothing...

And you (the proverbial you) can't blame that on socioeconomic conditions either. On this very forum you have people debating about free money and buying luxury items on credit. Debating for everything they are worth defending the wisdom of getting a monthly payment for an item they just don't need.

Things were going great in this country. In the world, mostly. Everyone thought the gravy train was unending. And here we are.

You are 100%, in my opinion...if people were better prepared we would not be in this situation we are in.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by superdog

I agree with you 100%. Finally. Whew. I went years agreeing with you on everything, and then nothing...

And you (the proverbial you) can't blame that on socioeconomic conditions either. On this very forum you have people debating about free money and buying luxury items on credit. Debating for everything they are worth defending the wisdom of getting a monthly payment for an item they just don't need.

Things were going great in this country. In the world, mostly. Everyone thought the gravy train was unending. And here we are.

You are 100%, in my opinion...if people were better prepared we would not be in this situation we are in.

I know right! Especially my post yesterday you headbanged..lol

It was more an exercise in contrarianistic viewpoints based on a convo I had. I'll PM you about it..

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

I know right! Especially my post yesterday you headbanged..lol

It was more an exercise in contrarianistic viewpoints based on a convo I had. I'll PM you about it..

sorry.

I do hear you. And I look forward to your PM.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by superdog

this virus appears to be attacking those very same people that should have been getting healthier based on their diabetes rather than taking pills to mask it.

Seth, I generally agree with your comments and observations. However, I have to take issue with this generalized comment and disagree with you here.

Although I will admit to a certain prejudice myself to people who are grossly overweight, suffer health consequences from it, and do nothing to correct the situation. That's not right for me to do, but I do, and I admit it.

However, diabetes is a different story. It is a disease, not a lifestyle, and although there is a strong correlation between obesity and high blood sugar, the simple fact is that the disease often causes the obesity, not vice-versa.

I speak as one who suffers from this disease. Anyone that has seen me in person would say that I am the proper height for my weight. My BMI at 23 is within the "normal" range. Anyone that knows me personally knows that I go to extreme lengths to limit my diet, exercise regularly and it is only the "pills" that I take daily, for the rest of my life, that keeps the disease manageable, so far.

So let's all be careful not to paint with too broad of a brush stroke.

[Phooi]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

Seth I can sum it up as, we are collecting data right now, to be continued.

I agree that people need to be accountable for their actions and lifestyle. This crisis will force everyone's hands unfortunately. But now is better than never to adopt a healthier lifestyle. Everyone can exercise on the cheap with just the weight of the human body.

Diet is tougher, as a lot of the poorest among us live in food deserts where there may be 5 fast food options, but limited or no grocery stores. Dense urban areas are an exception. Dietary habits die hard. Not making excuses, but how is it possible to get a fully formed cheeseburger than a bundle of carrots? The ridiculous food subsidies in this country and the poor diets that engenders (and subsequent health problems) boggles the mind. Let alone the fact that many walk no further than from their car to their office and back in a given day.

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Same can be said about financial stability.

I can't count how many times people have been told to save money for a shtf fund. At least 6 months, in case, well a nasty virus starts attacking us and the economy takes a dive..

How many people did that? To me, that is a factor in stopping this disease as eating too many twinkies..maybe not as much, but still a factor as it is clearly limiting our options in terms of resolutions.

Sadly, it is times like this that highlights the frailties and inadequacies in our social, political, health and financial structures. Again, sadly we have to first face this horrendous challenge so all those other issues will get pushed into the background.

Even now, we struggle trying to confront this virus with a united front. Imagine if this were WWII today and overlay our current responses to that challenge. Part of the population believing that WWII was a hoax or a political stunt. People arguing that the draft was infringing on their constitutional rights. States deciding how they would participate in the war effort. Companies deciding who and how much they would build and sell tanks, fighters and weapons for. Hoarding of steel and other raw materials...

I hope that when this has passed that people will remember all the challenges we went through to survive this. I hope that we take those lessons to heart and make some meaningful changes and not go back to business as usual.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by m j b

Seth, I generally agree with your comments and observations. However, I have to take issue with this generalized comment and disagree with you here.

Although I will admit to a certain prejudice myself to people who are grossly overweight, suffer health consequences from it, and do nothing to correct the situation. That's not right for me to do, but I do, and I admit it.

However, diabetes is a different story. It is a disease, not a lifestyle, and although there is a strong correlation between obesity and high blood sugar, the simple fact is that the disease often causes the obesity, not vice-versa.

I speak as one who suffers from this disease. Anyone that has seen me in person would say that I am the proper height for my weight. My BMI at 23 is within the "normal" range. Anyone that knows me personally knows that I go to extreme lengths to limit my diet, exercise regularly and it is only the "pills" that I take daily, for the rest of my life, that keeps the disease manageable, so far.

So let's all be careful not to paint with too broad of a brush stroke.

Not to get into a whose fault it is match about diabetes, but the fact that people eating a diet of massive amounts of carbs, which turn into glucose immediately in the body, which triggers an immediate insulin response, which over time causes insulin resistance, and diabetes, as well as obesity, is in fact a food/diet based choice.

And that's to say nothing about the consumption of massive amounts of actual sugar and fructose.

People are even just for breakfast, eating cereal (carb) laced with sugar, orange juice (fructose), toast (carb), muffins (sugar and carbs), and wonder why they are becoming diabetic.

And sadly growing worse by the year in the US.

A can of Coke is 39 grams of sugar, and the daily adult intake of sugar should safely be around 25.(6 teaspoons) The average American consumes 77 grams a day. About 60 extra pounds of sugar per year.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by m j b

Seth, I generally agree with your comments and observations. However, I have to take issue with this generalized comment and disagree with you here.

Although I will admit to a certain prejudice myself to people who are grossly overweight, suffer health consequences from it, and do nothing to correct the situation. That's not right for me to do, but I do, and I admit it.

However, diabetes is a different story. It is a disease, not a lifestyle, and although there is a strong correlation between obesity and high blood sugar, the simple fact is that the disease often causes the obesity, not vice-versa.

I speak as one who suffers from this disease. Anyone that has seen me in person would say that I am the proper height for my weight. My BMI at 23 is within the "normal" range. Anyone that knows me personally knows that I go to extreme lengths to limit my diet, exercise regularly and it is only the "pills" that I take daily, for the rest of my life, that keeps the disease manageable, so far.

So let's all be careful not to paint with too broad of a brush stroke.

fair enough and good point. thank you for bringing it to light and correcting me.

my father has Type 2 diabetes. He has home grown type 2. And I am sure I don't have all the facts, so please forgive my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Adult Onset Diabetes is often the result of a poor diet and lifestyle.

it is certainly not a dig against anyone. Most certainly not you. And I appreciate you pointing out my mistake.

I also respect the crap out of you taking an active role in doing your best to control your condition.

my father does almost nothing of the sort. He is the pinnacle of the health care system keeping him alive. In his situation, of course, I am grateful of it. It does not mean I respect his decisions or his actions, nor the health care system for supporting him.

[Zakalwe]

Regarding the tangent about Type 2 DM, it is becoming increasingly clear that several diseases with the same end result (relative insulin deficiency and insulin resistance) have all been lumped together and called “Type 2 Diabetes” when in fact they are somewhat different clinical entities.

The classic archetype of T2DM is the fat, over-eating, under exercising person who gorges their liver to the point that the insulin they naturally produce doesn’t work properly, causing diabetes. These people could in large part rid themselves of their illness if they ate better, exercised more and lost weight and they are in the majority of diabetics in the West. There are however a minority of slim, apparently healthy people, with no family history of diabetes who nevertheless develop diabetes in adulthood without the need for insulin and they are very clearly different from the first group. These people are likely very significantly genetically predisposed to having abnormal glucose metabolism and no amount of eating better and exercising more will help them - they need meds. A third type is the very elderly, generally quite skinny person who develops diabetes in their 70’s or 80’s. My pet theory is that these folks just have slightly decrepit pancreases that don’t work as well as they used to, much like most other bits of the elderly body. Again weight loss doesn’t help these people and in fact encouraging frail, skinny octogenarians to cut carbs out of their diet and lose weight has the potential to be actively harmful.

The whole message on diabetes to the public is generally grossly over-simplified for the sake of promoting a sound message about healthy lifestyle.

[Bearxj86]

China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak - US intelligence says:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...xcRKefDH1Jxtno

[Moggo]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak - US intelligence says:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...xcRKefDH1Jxtno

I read somewhere that it’s believed China’s total is 40x what they have said. Will look for the link but believe it was on Sky News.

If true that is shocking!


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[daveathall]

Originally Posted by Moggo

I read somewhere that it’s believed China’s total is 40x what they have said. Will look for the link but believe it was on Sky News.

If true that is shocking!

If Sky News told something that was true, then that would be shocking.

[Bearxj86]

The truth is in the Urns. China censorship is extremely potent and they paid $400 per dead body as compensation for silence.

[Moggo]

Originally Posted by daveathall

If Sky News told something that was true, then that would be shocking.

Agreed But I still believe the Chinese figures are massively higher than official figures.


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[Brew]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak - US intelligence says:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...xcRKefDH1Jxtno

I have zero reason to believe US intelligence any more than whatever China reports. I have zero faith that we will ever be told the truth. Zero.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by Moggo

But I still believe the Chinese figures are massively higher than official figures.

Oh yes, definitely.

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by RWH

Lots of people are working from home and the stimulus will provide income for many as we get this under control. Unless you think millions dead and millions sick won't affect the economy much. The workers are the highest risk of contact because they interact and are outside most of the day. Also it's highly unlikely 180 million people will be unemployed as that's more than 100% of the American workforce

Even now in China with the lockdowns lifted people are choosing to stay home as much as they can. It's still advised to social distance

Personally I think the economic side of this is going to be a solid s$&t show if the govt doesn’t somehow freeze ALL interest/debt. Many people can’t pay for what they otherwise would if it weren’t for govt mandates (right or wrong). So if the govt is going to keep ppl from working, the govt needs to make sure the avg guy, companies, municipalities aren’t going to get crushed by whatever debt they have..... I’ve yet to hear of VISA/etc volunteering to freeze everyone’s interest where it’s at until it’s all over........ at the end of the day, for the most part, listen to Ramsey people.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Blansky

So much of this depends on WHEN we go back to work. If we went back in 2 weeks, probably no economic affect, but if we go back in September or later, predicted number are probably out the window.

Obviously if there are limited deaths and people go back in a few months, the economy should pretty much rebound to where it is today within not too long.

We also have the law of unintended consequences, where companies see that, you know what, some of these jobs can be part time and from home, or we can teleconference more and travel less, or small businesses just can't bounce back and disappear. etc.

It will be interesting to see if there are corporate workforce reductions that don't go back to previous numbers after this.

Agree depends on when we go back. Also depends on how good of a job we do beefing up medical system in interim and changing peoples behavior and being to test and track to try and keep form having to have this happen to this extent a few months later.

As to a couple of weeks, US has extended current guidance till end of April I am unaware of any plan under consideration in the nation that will have us back with a couple of weeds.

Stay safe.

[RWH]

Originally Posted by airchitect

Personally I think the economic side of this is going to be a solid s$&t show if the govt doesn’t somehow freeze ALL interest/debt. Many people can’t pay for what they otherwise would if it weren’t for govt mandates (right or wrong). So if the govt is going to keep ppl from working, the govt needs to make sure the avg guy, companies, municipalities aren’t going to get crushed by whatever debt they have..... I’ve yet to hear of VISA/etc volunteering to freeze everyone’s interest where it’s at until it’s all over........ at the end of the day, for the most part, listen to Ramsey people.

I think something that a lot of people have overlooked in this thread is also that the stimulus package includes a very generous unemployment boost. Workers are now able to get an extra $600 PER WEEK on top of normal unemployment. Also this unemployment benefit now extends to gig economy workers too that were previously unable to file for unemployment benefits. The $600 boost is for up to 4 months

[Moggo]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Oh yes, definitely.

I’m struggling to believe pretty much anything anyone presents as fact at the moment. Our daily press conferences are becoming a work of fiction also.

It’s all so depressing. Just some truth would do.


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[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Brew

I have zero reason to believe US intelligence any more than whatever China reports. I have zero faith that we will ever be told the truth. Zero.

I’ve been on this forum for a few years now, and that’s the truest $h1T I’ve heard to date.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by pickettt

I’ve been on this forum for a few years now, and that’s the truest $h1T I’ve heard to date.

I really want to play X files music to this quote.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Brew

I have zero reason to believe US intelligence any more than whatever China reports. I have zero faith that we will ever be told the truth. Zero.

First rule about spies is never trust a spy.

[77T]

So Georgia,Mississippi and Florida finally issued statewide orders to stay at home.


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[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by pickettt

I’ve been on this forum for a few years now, and that’s the truest $h1T I’ve heard to date.

I'll second that.

[mountainjogger]

A sheriff's deputy in NC and a police officer in Santa Rose have died of CV. Another danger added to the list first responders face every day to keep us safe.

https://www.wxii12.com/article/montg...vid19/32004533

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/1...e-officer-dies