Govberg asking US$37.5k for LNIB Blue 5711. What is going on?!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Is it really gone? I figured ppl just stopped posting in it since it’s ran its course.

everyone's post counts went down... so yep

[Chiboy]

This seems like dirty pool. They let the thread go for a long time, but ultimately took it out of the archives for future readers to learn from. Seems a little underhanded on the surface. But maybe there is another explanation? It seems like the latter comments got more and more benign in terms of content. I can't imagine what tipped the mods over the edge on page 28 that hadn't been said in the first 27 pages...

[Silver Bullet]

That’s disappointing. An explanation of why it was removed should be in order, no?

[walds11]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

This seems like dirty pool. They let the thread go for a long time, but ultimately took it out of the archives for future readers to learn from. Seems a little underhanded on the surface. But maybe there is another explanation? It seems like the latter comments got more and more benign in terms of content. I can't imagine what tipped the mods over the edge on page 28 that hadn't been said in the first 27 pages...

I’m with you man! Maybe Govberg paid off TRF to have the thread removed

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by walds11

I’m with you man! Maybe Govberg paid off TRF to have the thread removed

Perhaps there was a 5522 involved!

Seriously, I guess it's their sandbox and they get to set the rules.

[mcorliss]

Govberg has always been more highly priced from my own experience...and also kind of difficult to deal with. I had a bad experience one time and then wrote about it someplace, only to have their store manager freak out, calling me demanding that I erase the comment, but after refusing, only then did they finally agree to make the transaction right, after giving me the run around. It was more of Joma.com buying experience than an Authorized Dealer experience. Will never deal with them again.

[GB-man]

Steve is under no obligation to anyone regarding what contents he keeps on here or what he removes. This is not Wikipedia

I would have rather it stayed but I could envision them offering him money to remove it. And if it was me...I’d take it lol

[codecow]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Steve is under no obligation to anyone regarding what contents he keeps on here or what he removes. This is not Wikipedia

I would have rather it stayed but I could envision them offering him money to remove it. And if it was me...I’d take it lol

Ultimately Mike ended up getting a 5522 anyway right?

[Andrés G]

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by mcorliss

Govberg has always been more highly priced from my own experience...

I almost dealt with them once when trying to get my RO 15400 back in Feb. My local AD quoted me one price that with no additional discount using cash/wire transfer. I called up Govberg and they quoted me something that was almost $1500 higher. Govberg salesman said there’s no reason to buy from him and go with my local AD since they couldn’t go any lower to match that price.

[taofeeq]

Yeah a sucker is born every minute...

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tng11

A local grey dealer is asking the equivalent of $45,500 for a pre-owned 2014 5712/1A, plus 13% taxes making it $51,415.

What the heck is going on with this market? I can't believe that 5712 waiting lists have exploded in just about 3 months?

5711 is selling here for a 60% premium and I can see the 12 going a similar way, already at 20%. These two are very linked.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

everyone's post counts went down... so yep

So I assume this thread is destined to be deleted as well, and since I don't own any PP, and am only in it to increase my post count, I might as well bow out.

Seriously, the owners can do what they want to do, but if this is meant to be an impartial forum for learning and sharing then censorship should be clearly communicated. I thought the main rules were to be decent to people and not to touch on hot button issues (unrelated to watches).

[Knappo 1307]

Any ill comments towards Govberg will eventually be deleted. There have been several threads on here regarding (not so great) dealings with Govberg, and poof they disappear....

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Any ill comments towards Govberg will eventually be deleted. There have been several threads on here regarding (not so great) dealings with Govberg, and poof they disappear....

Very depressing but sadly true.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by AK797

5711 is selling here for a 60% premium and I can see the 12 going a similar way, already at 20%. These two are very linked.

I am still kicking myself for having passed on a BNIB 5712/1A at US MSRP + sales tax just a few weeks back. Then again, I keep telling myself that it's better off I don't get involved in this current Nautilus tulip mania.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

So I assume this thread is destined to be deleted as well, and since I don't own any PP, and am only in it to increase my post count, I might as well bow out.

Seriously, the owners can do what they want to do, but if this is meant to be an impartial forum for learning and sharing then censorship should be clearly communicated. I thought the main rules were to be decent to people and not to touch on hot button issues (unrelated to watches).

Are you still sure you want to get your post count up?

[Silver Bullet]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

So I assume this thread is destined to be deleted as well, and since I don't own any PP, and am only in it to increase my post count, I might as well bow out.



Seriously, the owners can do what they want to do, but if this is meant to be an impartial forum for learning and sharing then censorship should be clearly communicated. I thought the main rules were to be decent to people and not to touch on hot button issues (unrelated to watches).

I, for one, completely agree.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by KarlS

I want to see how much jewellry he has

Originally Posted by KarlS

I can't help but notice threads seem to disappear at this mention...

Your unrelenting campaign of attacking another member and a business is now at an end.
You just keep repeating your post again and again and again and I've had enough. You fail to heed my request to get over this. No one is forcing you to deal with any particular retailer and they can (as many many other retailers do) require a purchaser of a hard to get item to purchase other item/s.
So I'm setting you free.

Originally Posted by walds11

I’m with you man! Maybe Govberg paid off TRF to have the thread removed

The imputation is that I have taken a bribe. That is a very serious and totally false allegation to make.
I haven't receive a red cent from Govberg, I've never purchased from them, no one I know is a customer of Govberg and neither I nor anyone associated with me has secured a promise of anything (money, watches, jewellery) for the future.

So you can go too.

I've just had enough of the unrelenting bashing of Govberg. If you've got a grievance then go to the police or the better business bureau.

Govberg operates a legitimate business and a successful business for many years. If you like them or not its up to you but using this forum as a basis for continual antagonism and not abuse of me will not be tolerated.

The tread of the 5522 had run its course and it had spiralled into a defamatory and unfairly disparaging attack. That is not the policy of this forum and it was removed for no other reason.

It can't be said I didn't give fair warning. So you get what you asked for, that's the way you want it, and that's what you get.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Your unrelenting campaign of attacking another member and a business is now at an end.
You just keep repeating your post again and again and again and I've had enough. You fail to heed my request to get over this. No one is forcing you to deal with any particular retailer and they can (as many many other retailers do) require a purchaser of a hard to get item to purchase other item/s.
So I'm setting you free.

Forums thrive on open debate. This story is not a straight forward one of an AD selling hard to get items only to very good customers - it goes far deeper and hence why some of us have been so animated. It is the PP name that we feel needs protecting.
Banning members who have much to contribute is never a good outcome.

I remember similar on Fchat over a certain suppliers tactics that many felt was unacceptable while others were comfortable. Many contributors were banned and the forum was all the worse for it.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Forums thrive on open debate. This story is not a straight forward one of an AD selling hard to get items only to very good customers - it goes far deeper and hence why some of us have been so animated. It is the PP name that we feel needs protecting.
Banning members who have much to contribute is never a good outcome.

I remember similar on Fchat over a certain suppliers tactics that many felt was unacceptable while others were comfortable. Many contributors were banned and the forum was all the worse for it.

Russell makes some excellent points I think are well worth considering.

I also agree with Steve that personal attacks and disparaging remarks about any forum member should have no place on TRF, but I believe the lines must become somewhat blurred when a forum member is more business entity than individual contributor. We have an entire forum section ("Watch Out!!!") where members regularly voice their grievances about poor service or unsavory activity. No doubt the information contained therein has saved many a forum member from needless heartache. Would anyone want such comments suppressed?

When we have the opportunity to learn and benefit from the collective experiences of other forum members, TRF does its greatest service. Differing opinions and perspectives are inevitable, but I have faith that most members can sift through the rhetoric and demagoguery and make an informed judgement. Slanderous remarks are completely unacceptable, whether directed at a business or an individual. Strongly worded opinions, however uncomfortable, must remain the lifeblood of this forum.

My remarks are intended primarily to voice my sadness seeing longstanding forum contributors recently banned, many of whose opinions I often personally disagree but value nonetheless. I actually think I'll miss those the most, for in our disagreements came meaningful insight.

I acknowledge that I am not privy to what happens behind the scenes, and I am not challenging any forum moderator's discretion. If my remarks are deemed unacceptable please delete, and I won't comment further. I can show myself to the door.

Thank you Steve for this opportunity, and thank you for this wonderful forum.


Happy Thanksgiving to all.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Russell makes some excellent points I think are well worth considering.

I also agree with Steve that personal attacks and disparaging remarks about any forum member should have no place on TRF, but I believe the lines must become somewhat blurred when a forum member is more business entity than individual contributor. We have an entire forum section ("Watch Out!!!") where members regularly voice their grievances about poor service or unsavory activity. No doubt the information contained therein has saved many a forum member from needless heartache. Would anyone want such comments suppressed?

When we have the opportunity to learn and benefit from the collective experiences of other forum members, TRF does its greatest service. Differing opinions and perspectives are inevitable, but I have faith that most members can sift through the rhetoric and demagoguery and make an informed judgement. Slanderous remarks are completely unacceptable, whether directed at a business or an individual. Strongly worded opinions, however uncomfortable, must remain the lifeblood of this forum.

My remarks are intended primarily to voice my sadness seeing longstanding forum contributors recently banned, many of whose opinions I often personally disagree but value nonetheless. I actually think I'll miss those the most, for in our disagreements came meaningful insight.

I acknowledge that I am not privy to what happens behind the scenes, and I am not challenging any forum moderator's discretion. If my remarks are deemed unacceptable please delete, and I won't comment further. I can show myself to the door.

Thank you Steve for this opportunity, and thank you for this wonderful forum.


Happy Thanksgiving to all.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

TONY64 I agree with your points. I remain unclear if we are allowed to post about negative AD experiences and what the criteria is for having a thread deleted.

I erroneously started a thread to get clarity on this issue that has now been moved. I suspect because it was expressed as a generality.

With this in mind I don't want to participate in this specific thread without knowing what the rules are as others have gotten banned. Are we allowed to express an opinion that suggests a dealer is acting unscrupulously or do we risk being banned and having the thread go away?

Anyone your help is appreciated.

[codecow]

I miss a lot of the folks who have been banned and now Karl. A lot of these guys had a good sense of humor. Respects!

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

TONY64 I agree with your points. I remain unclear if we are allowed to post about negative AD experiences and what the criteria is for having a thread deleted.
. . .
Anyone your help is appreciated.

Honest AD experiences are generally accepted if they are genuine and of importance to the Forum members.

Piling on, unsubstantiated rancor, and libel are a far different animal. Animosity against a member, business, or the Forum itself is never appropriate.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Tools

Honest AD experiences are generally accepted if they are genuine and of importance to the Forum members.

Piling on, unsubstantiated rancor, and libel are a far different animal. Animosity against a member, business, or the Forum itself is never appropriate.

I believe the subjective nature of the criteria as described, juxtaposed against the emotional response elicited by the now deleted Govberg post and banning of members such as Karl leaves some of us concerned that our "opinions" no matter how genuine can result in banning. Going one step further this fear will diminish the overall quality of dialogue.

This concern is being expressed on numerous threads among a variety of posters.

And here in lies the problem. I am raising a concern because I enjoy TRF, but risk it being defined as "piling on" and getting banned.

Don't know that I have a solution but to continue to avoid posting, don't contribute content and lurk only. Hardly a good outcome for the venue if others do the same.

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

I believe the subjective nature of the criteria as described, juxtaposed against the emotional response elicited by the now deleted Govberg post and banning of members such as Karl leaves some of us concerned that our "opinions" no matter how genuine can result in banning. Going one step further this fear will diminish the overall quality of dialogue.

This concern is being expressed on numerous threads among a variety of posters.

And here in lies the problem. I am raising a concern because I enjoy TRF, but risk it being defined as "piling on" and getting banned.

Don't know that I have a solution but to continue to avoid posting, don't contribute content and lurk only. Hardly a good outcome for the venue if others do the same.

I agree. Unfortunately my desire to contribute has also been greatly diminished with all the recent bannings and blurred lines.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

I believe the subjective nature of the criteria as described, juxtaposed against the emotional response elicited by the now deleted Govberg post and banning of members such as Karl leaves some of us concerned that our "opinions" no matter how genuine can result in banning. Going one step further this fear will diminish the overall quality of dialogue.

This concern is being expressed on numerous threads among a variety of posters.

And here in lies the problem. I am raising a concern because I enjoy TRF, but risk it being defined as "piling on" and getting banned.

Don't know that I have a solution but to continue to avoid posting, don't contribute content and lurk only. Hardly a good outcome for the venue if others do the same.

100% agree with this. There seems to have been a very grey area defined by the moderation team as to what are opinions and piling on. Sure, opinions on this board can get cagey at time, but that's all part of a good and honest dialogue. I sure miss having people around who may have stronger opinions, which still contributed meaningfully to the dialogue on this board. Now, I'm sure people will be more reluctant to express their true opinions, and we will all lose out because of that.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by tng11

100% agree with this. There seems to have been a very grey area defined by the moderation team as to what are opinions and piling on. Sure, opinions on this board can get cagey at time, but that's all part of a good and honest dialogue. I sure miss having people around who may have stronger opinions, which still contributed meaningfully to the dialogue on this board. Now, I'm sure people will be more reluctant to express their true opinions, and we will all lose out because of that.

Totally


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AK797]

In fairness to the mods, whom we all respect and deeply acknowledge keep this forum as the best on the net by a mile, the Govberg thread had dragged on for many many pages and we all had our say before finally the mods told us to rein it in. I was vocal on that thread as well but we had all had our say by then and it was time to stop as it was all one sided. As for members getting banned I am sure they were warned before but yet kept repeating comments about Govberg in other threads, even on the Rolex forum too, and there is only so much you leeway you can give members before action is taken.