So what does NOS entail?

[nolan386]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Here’s the link

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=676542


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Boom there you go


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[nolan386]

Wonder why there’s no case back shots....


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[Chiboy]

The only acceptable engraving on the back of a watch advertised as "New Old Stock" would be "NOS."

IMO, and I'm no expert, NOS would mean bought from AD new and socked away. Not worn, not sized, sure as sh!t not had the caseback altered or changed. In the same way watches are described as "brand new, dealer removed stickers." It's still, IMO, brand new even if being sold by third party (AD customer or gray marketer).

If one has the opinion that only a Rolex AD can sell a watch as NOS, then no watch on here could be described as "new" or NOS. Just my opinion.

Clearly what the seller in question is advertising is wrong on many, many levels.

[bondtoys]

In my opinion, the seller should be banned!
Immediately!

[77T]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

In my opinion, the seller should be banned!
Immediately!

That’s not the best first step methinks, but Steve is on the case.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...55&postcount=2


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[RichM]

Here it is again. https://www.fogcityvintage.com/nos-explorer-ii-polar

[Dr.Brian]

Owned and worn by 2 different people with replacement parts is about as far from New Old Stock as you can get.
To me NOS is just as it says, new but old. As in Unworn.

[jrs146]

In my opinion it's all about disclosure. With a used watch, some things are 100% known and others are not so clear. If you are buying an older watch and you're not the original owner, how do you really know if it's ever been worn? It's hard.

However, there are things you may know. And as a seller, if you know them, you should have an obligation to state them. Especially if you are going to classify a watch as New Old Stock. Which to me means, 100% never altered, sized, worn, and is 100% mint. Full stickers. That's a bold statement. Unfortunately this seller had the caseback polished to remove the engraving. That was never disclosed. Links were added to watch. That was not disclosed in the for sale listing. However I will say that he told me through a PM when I asked that he added in links. But what if a buyer didn't ask? That's where the problem is for me. The lack of disclosure. I find it deceptive. It's less important if you're going to classify a watch as used from the beginning, even mint. I would take no issue with that. Links can be removed, a caseback can be buffed out and if the watch is mint, it's mint. But it's used. And in this instance the price would be a few grand less than what is being asked.

Just my 2 cents.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Rich Mickol

Here it is again. https://www.fogcityvintage.com/nos-explorer-ii-polar

Not really “again”. That is his own website. He also posts FS watches here that are on his website.


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[breitlings]

That price lol.

[Coopdog]

NOS is like “unpolished” in vintage. It means as much as you trust the seller.

For me I would never pay NOS money for a watch in this market. How hard can it be to have a watch that is in good shape polished really precisely, and get someone with access to a factory to reapply protective plastic to the case bracelet and clasp? If it makes the price of a Kermit go from $12k to $25k, I’m sure a lot of people are “fudging” it :).


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[jrs146]

It appears the seller does not want to make any changes. He hasn’t responded to Steve. He’s also sticking to his story because of the “stickers”. I find this to be very very dishonest.




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[nolan386]

Originally Posted by jrs146

It appears the seller does not want to make any changes. He hasn’t responded to Steve. He’s also sticking to his story because of the “stickers”. I find this to be very very dishonest.




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He so blocked us from IG, buyer be aware when buying from @tjbender fogcitywatches


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[037]

"Still stickered" is his cutoff point for NOS? Ok, let's see the caseback stickers. A truly NOS 5-digit would still have them.

[tjbender]

Hello

This thread was just brought to my attention so I wanted to weigh in. The watch I listed does indeed have stickers in place on the 9 o’clock side of the case and the top right lug. This description is inline with my sales post “remains partially stickered”. My photos also show there is no sticker on the bottom right lug. These stickers, were on the watch when received and I have no reason to assume they would not be factory. The watch is flawless. The clasp remains tight – just as new. In fact, my watch maker was extremely excited when he saw the piece given it’s “new” condition, expressing he’d only seen a few similar.

Has the watch been worn? Possibly, but the same can be said about any used watch. Even watches sold at an AD have likely been worn (and most recently have had their stickers removed and bracelets sized to prevent flipping). We never know, so I have to go off what feels right. I purchased this watch myself at a very large premium because it’s NOS in my opinion.

Moving on to the caseback, when the watch was received, it was corrected. I also had to open the watch to confirm authenticity and movement type (3185 vs 3186 plays a big variable in a Z serial 16570). Any dealer would do the same when taking in a new piece. Are all “NOS” watches sold by independent dealers now consider otherwise?

Now for the substance of my listings, I intentionally don’t provide much detail on all sales posts because I want my customers to reach out. This allows me to qualify buyers and begin focusing my time on the people who aren’t kicking tires. Does a real estate agent put all property disclosures on their marketing collateral, or once they’ve accepted an offer and put the property in contract?

This is a part time business for me and I don’t have time to speak with everyone, as much as I try. When I have a buyer who is qualified and shows real interest in a watch I ALWAYS jump on a call to walk through the purchase process, highlight anything that needs to be represented and answer any questions.

I offer a 72 hour inspection period on all of my watches, and follow up with EVERY customer once my watch has been delivered, it’s not worth my time to sell a watch a customer is 100% satisfied with. In fact many of my customers have expressed that I point things out they would have never caught themselves.

I have nothing but 5 star reviews. If I’m off on calling this a NOS watch, I’m sorry. To me that’s what I consider it and the buyer agreed.

[RLX_NY]

that's not how this works, NOS is not open to individual interpretations, well I guess it is according to you. new old stock is exactly that, old stock that's new, not messed with in any way.... a watch cannot be new if it's had parts replaced/worked on.

so in your case you purposely leave your listings vague? if the buyer is savvy/knowledgeable enough you'll disclose more info otherwise if buyer has no clue then on to the next one?

that's like a car salesman saying the hood has been repainted, 20K miles on the motor but I consider it new cus it's the finest example you can find

[FTX I]

Nevermind

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by tjbender

it’s NOS in my opinion.

This is the nub of the issue. In the post truth world in which we live, everything is up for interpretation and opinion, to which everybody is loudly entitled, rather than fact, is king.

However, even giving you the benefit of the doubt on the unique interpretation of “NOS”, the ad falls short of a reasonable degree of candour (in my opinion ) as it doesn’t mention the polished out caseback engraving which many potential buyers would want to know about before considering a purchase.

[SMD]

Did you tell the "buyer" this NOS watch has been worn, has been sized and that the case back has been polished out? Or did you just mention the "stickers" that are still, barely, hanging on the case (except for the case back sticker of course)?

Another seller to add to the ignore list.

[superdog]

Oh boy.

This can’t be right...

[cup8]

I was looking at pictures earlier of a NOS watch that had clearly been worn. Very good condition, but not NOS. NOS is new like it was bought and left in its box and dug out of the loft after 40 years, not worn carefully for a couple of years.

[911NBK]

Wow this is messed up. If you expose the guy then that may make you feel like you lack integrity, but if you don't then one of us might get hit for buying something we think is something else. I'd probably PM the guy and tell him to get it right.

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[Coopdog]

Originally Posted by tjbender

Hello

This thread was just brought to my attention so I wanted to weigh in. The watch I listed does indeed have stickers in place on the 9 o’clock side of the case and the top right lug. This description is inline with my sales post “remains partially stickered”. My photos also show there is no sticker on the bottom right lug. These stickers, were on the watch when received and I have no reason to assume they would not be factory. The watch is flawless. The clasp remains tight – just as new. In fact, my watch maker was extremely excited when he saw the piece given it’s “new” condition, expressing he’d only seen a few similar.

Has the watch been worn? Possibly, but the same can be said about any used watch. Even watches sold at an AD have likely been worn (and most recently have had their stickers removed and bracelets sized to prevent flipping). We never know, so I have to go off what feels right. I purchased this watch myself at a very large premium because it’s NOS in my opinion.

Moving on to the caseback, when the watch was received, it was corrected. I also had to open the watch to confirm authenticity and movement type (3185 vs 3186 plays a big variable in a Z serial 16570). Any dealer would do the same when taking in a new piece. Are all “NOS” watches sold by independent dealers now consider otherwise?

Now for the substance of my listings, I intentionally don’t provide much detail on all sales posts because I want my customers to reach out. This allows me to qualify buyers and begin focusing my time on the people who aren’t kicking tires. Does a real estate agent put all property disclosures on their marketing collateral, or once they’ve accepted an offer and put the property in contract?

This is a part time business for me and I don’t have time to speak with everyone, as much as I try. When I have a buyer who is qualified and shows real interest in a watch I ALWAYS jump on a call to walk through the purchase process, highlight anything that needs to be represented and answer any questions.

I offer a 72 hour inspection period on all of my watches, and follow up with EVERY customer once my watch has been delivered, it’s not worth my time to sell a watch a customer is 100% satisfied with. In fact many of my customers have expressed that I point things out they would have never caught themselves.

I have nothing but 5 star reviews. If I’m off on calling this a NOS watch, I’m sorry. To me that’s what I consider it and the buyer agreed.

No serious buyer cares what “your opinion” of NOS is. By defending this position you just sound untrustworthy.


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[Dr.Brian]

It’s obviously not NOS if it’s sized, worn, engraved, etc.
Might as well call it “minty” at least that doesn’t have a real expectation of newness.

[nolan386]

Originally Posted by Coopdog

No serious buyer cares what “your opinion” of NOS is. By defending this position you just sound untrustworthy.


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Exactly


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[Andad]

Is this Trigger’s Explorer?

[grimps]

I can't see what the obsession is with stickers in place . I'd rather have a watch with no stickers and the warranty card stamped last week then one with all the stickers on that was purchased 3 years ago

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by grimps

I can't see what the obsession is with stickers in place . I'd rather have a watch with no stickers and the warranty card stamped last week then one with all the stickers on that was purchased 3 years ago

Indeed.

The only objectively good reason to buy a watch in genuine NOS condition, assuming you’re paying a premium, is if you never intend to wear the thing. Otherwise, you just paid over the odds to be the first to scratch it up.

[Andad]

Tim, see Larry’s post 17.

Educate yourself on NEW OLD STOCK.

Correct your mistakes.

If an AD found a Rolex in their safe that was an older current model or a discontinued model then that is new old stock.

As soon as it is sold it is second hand not new.

If the buyer resold it in the same condition then it could be described as as an unworn example.

As for the engraving.....

As for your explanation....

Your credibility is being evaluated.....

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by piratfisk

Solve the mystery of what NJP means?

Not Just Perfect.