5513 milsub for sale

[willjones]

Sothebys 11th of November in Geneva .

[1675-David]

probably Frontiers!!

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

probably Frontiers!!

I was just thinking the same thing. Most auction house dont vet the pieces too closely.

[Kijamon]

Hi guys, that was actually my Dad posting the OP.

The watch in question has been in our family for 30 years, was picked up at Rosyth docks in a job lot when their military base closed. Nice wee story. My dad kept a hold of it as it was an odd looking piece and it was taken many years later (2010 I think) to a Rolex shop in Glasgow to be made operational and we have the certificate and all that from that time.

It's lot 47 in the Important Watch Auction in Geneva by Sotheby's.

Dad just felt it was time to move it on so someone can wear/enjoy it properly!

[330ci]

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auct...s-steel-divers

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Kijamon

Hi guys, that was actually my Dad posting the OP.

The watch in question has been in our family for 30 years, was picked up at Rosyth docks in a job lot when their military base closed. Nice wee story. My dad kept a hold of it as it was an odd looking piece and it was taken many years later (2010 I think) to a Rolex shop in Glasgow to be made operational and we have the certificate and all that from that time.

It's lot 47 in the Important Watch Auction in Geneva by Sotheby's.

Dad just felt it was time to move it on so someone can wear/enjoy it properly!

What a nice find some years ago, good luck with the sale!

[dbhak22]

Here is the listing for reference: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auct...vers?locale=en

Part of the "Important Watches featuring Masterworks of Time" auction.

[1675-David]

Good luck with the sale!! I loved that drive as a kid, over the bridge, the railway bridge on one side and the docks on the other, keeping an eye out for battleships and submarines..

[foil_guy]

Originally Posted by Kijamon

Hi guys, that was actually my Dad posting the OP.

The watch in question has been in our family for 30 years, was picked up at Rosyth docks in a job lot when their military base closed. Nice wee story. My dad kept a hold of it as it was an odd looking piece and it was taken many years later (2010 I think) to a Rolex shop in Glasgow to be made operational and we have the certificate and all that from that time.

It's lot 47 in the Important Watch Auction in Geneva by Sotheby's.

Dad just felt it was time to move it on so someone can wear/enjoy it properly!

Did it have that Bezel insert when it went for service?

[Kijamon]

Originally Posted by foil_guy

Did it have that Bezel insert when it went for service?

Edit - I think I might be mistaken, i found a very old photo

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by Kijamon

It did not, that's a replacement

Ouch!!

[Kijamon]

The bezel is a replacement and the strap is as well. Had this confirmed from my dad. Sorry, this watch has sat in a safe for quite a while.

Rolex put the replacement bezel and strap on but everything else is original. The sword hands had oxidisation but not too bad for the age.

[cardiel]

holy moly......'a job lot'! I remember working on a film shoot at Rosyth dockyard maybe 22 or 23 years ago....we were filming a pop promo in a large building, but off to one side were these cages on trollies stuffed with all kinds of things that were being sold as....you guessed it, 'job lots'............imagine finding a milsub in there?

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by Kijamon

Edit - I think I might be mistaken, i found a very old photo

gonna hafta post that picture...

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by cardiel

holy moly......'a job lot'! I remember working on a film shoot at Rosyth dockyard maybe 22 or 23 years ago....we were filming a pop promo in a large building, but off to one side were these cages on trollies stuffed with all kinds of things that were being sold as....you guessed it, 'job lots'............imagine finding a milsub in there?

At one time Motosail in Weymouth had trays of mil subs to sell off, produced from the counter like a platter of dead fish, "£50 each and help yourself."

[77T]

I hope your lot clears the estimate by such a margin that you’re £100K to the good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jrs146]

Wow very cool. What a great story also!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Haywood_Milton]

Apparently plenty to celebrate here, but the auction listing is fanciful:

"As opposed to the 5517, the reference 5513 came with any combination of hands (standard or Sword) or bezels (calibrated to 15 or 60 units)."

As far as 1970s military issue Submariners go, that is poppycock!

I would like to know if the case-back correctly matches the watch. They were commonly swapped during MOD service and this is one of several aspects that are key to value.

If the watch realised a hammer price towards the auction house's upper estimate (for ease let us say £65,000), it may be worth considering some sums. The winning bidder would actually pay £84,500 (hammer + buyer's commission @ 25% + VAT) while the seller might be lucky to realise £60,000 after seller's fees have been deducted. Looking at the total take for the auction house, which as a percentage across their industry has grown greatly in the last thirty years, increasingly I wonder if auction is a sensible route to take when there are dealers who can probably sell a watch for more and may take a thinner margin.

At the very least, one might press hard to have the seller's fee reduced to zero. Where one has a watch of significant value, in the UK it is possible even to have both the seller's fee reduced to zero and share a small proportion of the buyer's fee. One needs to find a flexible auction house which takes a commercial view of the whole but, yes, by this I do mean that an auction seller can actually realise more than hammer price from a sale.

Sotheby's also have this watch coming up https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auct...centre-seconds , which illustrates how common the swapping of case-backs was. That listing also contains the same nonsense about hands and bezels. What level of knowledge should one expect, if the auction house is generating a mere £20,000 or so from your business?

Insta : haywood_milton_rolex

[vintagetudor]

Some very good points raised in the above comment. Having previously worked in the auction business for over 20 years (now retired) its true that most auction houses (including the big ones) will negotiate with the seller re fees.
Normally in would only usually apply to the trade and how many pieces they were putting in per sale etc, but certainly most trade sellers could get anywhere between 4-10%, against this you have to factor in catalogue illustrations i.e. photos of the piece and where they're placed i.e. front cover etc all these are extra costs incurred.
What we are seeing with auction houses now, are buyers commissions of anywhere between 25-40% plus 5% if you're bidding via platforms like the salesroom.com and additional postage costs through third party mailing services making it even more expensive.
I have to agree with Mr Milton that when you look at the sums involved in selling high end vintage pieces, one would expect a high level of expertise when appraising and validating from the auction house specialists. Unfortunately this isn't always the case and perhaps it would be better looking to sell within the private market.

[harry in montreal]

If a private seller has a premier piece, it is up to them to negotiate a better commission percentage. I’ve negotiated with southebys and others because the piece was destined to adorn the auction catalog cover. The auction house does give value, they should advertise and give certain bidders confidence to participate when they may hold back in a gallery setting. The house should do proper research and connect with their client list of Whale bidders. Plus, as a seller, there is always the lottery win scenario if 2 people have more money than common sense. It’s ideal when sellers have no idea, but I’ve used them when I feel I could set a new price standard. The southeby listing is not great and the caseback should be photoed, possibly they were afraid to remove it and damage it? Either way, they failed to hit the top end of the market

[harry in montreal]

Double post. Sorry

[Rolexbanksy]

Anyone know the final price achieved on milsub.

[Haywood_Milton]

"Great Scott! I can't believe it sold for that much, Marty!"

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Rolexbanksy

Anyone know the final price achieved on milsub.

Hang on, let me get my time machine.