Rolex Model Numbers

[Jim Johnson]

Hi all - just joined the forum as this seems to be where all the Rolex experts hang out! I restore and flip old LED watches from the 70's (remember Pulsar?) and have now decided to invest in a Rolex. The model that I like the most is the Pepsi GMT Master model.

Just as with the old LED watches, there seems to be the same discussions about model numbers, correct bracelets, hollow vs solid links etc - problem is I know nothing about Rolexes.

And so, I'm here doing my research to learn a few things before making a big investment. Sooo, my question is, I'm looking for a GMT Master Pepsi that...

-has an oyster bracelet
-sapphire crystal
-stainless steel case
-ceramic bezel
-at least superluminova so the lume is still bright as this will be a used one

So what GMT Master (Pepsi) model numbers should I be looking for when shopping for one? Any help appreciated - thanks!

[JR16]

Welcome to TRF!

Sorry, but the combo you list doesn’t exist.

Ceramic steel Pepsi’s have jubilee bracelet.
Ceramic Pepsi with oyster bracelet is white gold
Steel Pepsi with oyster bracelet has aluminum insert.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ltmgeller]

The current ceramic bezeled model is the 126710BLRO or the previous model 116710BLRO are the two references that are the closest to what you want. If you were looking for something older with the aluminum bezel, the first Pepsi GMT with a sapphire crystal was a 16700. Do some searching of previous threads on the various Pepsi GMTs to better familiarize yourself with what you would like. I prefer the 16700 because of its quickset feature. Good luck and happy hunting. Learn about the 16700, 16710, and the 116710BLRO before making a decision.

[HansSolo]

Research: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ro...ference-points

[RJRJRJ]

Ceramic bezeled Pepsi means you'll be shelling out between 20-60k and the watch won't need a restoration.

[Jim Johnson]

Holy crap - you guys are knowledgeable!! I'll read up, check out the links and research - thanks to all!

In the meantime, is this possible:

-jubilee bracelet
-sapphire crystal
-stainless steel case
-ceramic bezel
-at least superluminova so the lume is still bright as this will be a used one

Thanks again!

[jlovda]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

Holy crap - you guys are knowledgeable!! I'll read up, check out the links and research - thanks to all!

In the meantime, is this possible:

-jubilee bracelet
-sapphire crystal
-stainless steel case
-ceramic bezel
-at least superluminova so the lume is still bright as this will be a used one

Thanks again!

That appears to be the current 126710BLRO. You are looking at the most in-demand SS watch Rolex makes and they sell for over $20K on the grey market.

[Jim Johnson]

Is it me or is the bezel on that one a darker blue than past Pepsi GMT's?

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

-has an oyster bracelet
-sapphire crystal
-stainless steel case
-ceramic bezel
-at least superluminova so the lume is still bright as this will be a used one

You can have 4/5 out of the box.

16710 late examples will have an Oyster bracelet, sapphire crystal, SS case and superluminova. But the bezel will be aluminum, not ceramic.

116719BLRO will have an Oyster bracelet, sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel and Chromalight (which is Rolex alternative to Luminova). But it will be WG, not SS.

126710BLRO will have a sapphire crystal, SS case, ceramic bezel and Chromalight. But it will come on a Jubilee.

126710BLRO fits the most since if you are willing to spend a bit more, you can get a 97200 bracelet from the Sub for it or a 78200 from an older GMT if you prefer a smaller clasp with Easylink and PCL to a larger clasp with Glidelock and brushed finish.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

Is it me or is the bezel on that one a darker blue than past Pepsi GMT's?

There are different variations for 126710BLRO bezel. Some people call them Mk I, II and III. Some people hate using that terminology. But the simple truth of the matter is there are 3 distinct variations. Earlier 126710BLROs used to have same light bezel as the black dial 116719BLROs. Very bright pastel colors. Later on, the bezel became darker. Last version of the bezel is so dark that in some environments the blue looks black.

[Jim Johnson]

Ridiculous amount of info you guys have in your heads!

-So if I get an aluminum bezel, can Rolex replace these over time?

-I worry about old lume and Tritium not glowing - I've read Luminova and Superliminova never really wear out? True?

[RJRJRJ]

Originally Posted by jlovda

That appears to be the current 126710BLRO. You are looking at the most in-demand SS watch Rolex makes and they sell for over $20K on the grey market.

I think 126710BLNR would meet the criteria and be a bit cheaper. But still likely wouldn't need a restoration.

To OP, ceramic bezels are a relatively new thing in the Rolex lineup, and will probably not need a restoration. They only come on six digit models, so if that is a criteria, you'll have to start at five digit models.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

Ridiculous amount of info you guys have in your heads!

-So if I get an aluminum bezel, can Rolex replace these over time?

-I worry about old lume and Tritium not glowing - I've read Luminova and Superliminova never really wear out? True?

That's not a lot of information TBH.

Yes, you can replace an aluminum bezel. In fact if you get a 16710 you can get yourself all 3 bezels (Coke, Pepsi and black) and swap them out whenever you wish.

Everything in this world wears out. The question is how long does it take to wear out. In case of Luminova it will probably last about as long as the universe. I don't have exact numbers but your watch will become useless way before Luminova on the dial does.

[Jim Johnson]

Thanks - I'm slowly narrowing it down. I don't really care for the darker bezel on the latest model and I really like the Oyster bracelet - so I think I'm leaning towards the 16710.

-so it sounds like the 16710 wasn't ever made with Chromalight?
-also, I like the simple deployment clasp on the 1675 (don't care for the safety clasp but could live with it) - can you put a simple deployment clasp/oyster band like that on the 16710?

Thanks!

[77T]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

can you put a simple deployment clasp/oyster band like that on the 16710?

You can do a lot of different swaps - but I’d suggest finding the right model first and make it yours.

Then spend some time getting more input. What you propose is a path to devaluation unless the option was available from Rolex in that watch model/bracelet combo.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

Thanks - I'm slowly narrowing it down. I don't really care for the darker bezel on the latest model and I really like the Oyster bracelet - so I think I'm leaning towards the 16710.

-so it sounds like the 16710 wasn't ever made with Chromalight?
-also, I like the simple deployment clasp on the 1675 (don't care for the safety clasp but could live with it) - can you put a simple deployment clasp/oyster band like that on the 16710?

Thanks!

If your only gripe is the dark bezel, you can find 126710BLRO with an extremely light bezel. In fact lighter than 16710. This picture from Hodinkee is an example of a light bezel 126710BLRO.



-No, it was only made with tritium, Lumonova and SuperLuminova. Both the latter ones should effectively never age. Tritium dial has a Swiss T<.25 marking, Luminova is marked Swiss (often referred to as Swiss only), and SuperLuminova is marked Swiss Made. They do have a green lume as opposed to later watches with Chromalight that are blueish.

-I don't know why you'd want to, but sure, you could.

[Jim Johnson]

That's VERY helpful info about the markings for the different lumes!

I don't care for the Oysterlock - I had a DOXA with a safety clasp like that and it seemed like it could scratch the rest of the watch when you take it off.

So I noticed the 16700 came with the Oyster 78360 bracelet (the one I really like), and started leaning towards that until I figured out that the movement was different from the 16710, WHICH, according to Gmtmasterhistory, was also available with the Oyster 78360 bracelet!

So it looks like the 16710 is what I'm looking for - if I can find one with an Oyster 78360 bracelet - or find one to put on it.

Wondering about the movements - Gmtmasterhistory said the 16710's has 3185 movements except "Late 2007: Caliber 3186 instead of 3185 (late Z-series and the M-series)".

-if true, how do I tell if a 16710 has a 3185 or a 3186?

[breed]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

Wondering about the movements - Gmtmasterhistory said the 16710's has 3185 movements except "Late 2007: Caliber 3186 instead of 3185 (late Z-series and the M-series)".

-if true, how do I tell if a 16710 has a 3185 or a 3186?

Z and some M serial numbers in the 16710 with 3186 movements were produced in 2006 and into 2007. They are about 2x the price of the earlier 16710 (from 1999-2006) (go search chrono24 and they are $19-25K.

3185 is a rock solid movement, I would go this route.

I just recently bought a 2001 16710BLRO. It was the sweet spot for me and went with a solid seller that had a history of sales and the watch had good documentation. Not original box and papers but a bill of sale from a well known jeweler (and also a 2 year warranty on the last service).

[Stan Cooper]

I'll probably get flamed, but I retrofitted my c. 2000 16710 (P serial) with an aftermarket bezel and ceramic BLRO insert. I have the original bezel and aluminum black insert as well and it only takes me 5 minutes to swap them. Aluminum bezel inserts can get scratched, but the ceramic inserts are much more resistant to scratching, which is why I chose to create this frankenwatch.

[Jim Johnson]

Thanks everybody for all the info - I'll do more research but I think the 16710 is what I'm looking for. Interesting idea on putting on a ceramic bezel - I can certainly see the utility of it!

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

I'll probably get flamed, but I retrofitted my c. 2000 16710 (P serial) with an aftermarket bezel and ceramic BLRO insert. I have the original bezel and aluminum black insert as well and it only takes me 5 minutes to swap them. Aluminum bezel inserts can get scratched, but the ceramic inserts are much more resistant to scratching, which is why I chose to create this frankenwatch.

Interesting mod Stan. No from me

[Jim Johnson]

So is the consensus that the 3185 movement is good?

[Stan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson

So is the consensus that the 3185 movement is good?

Yes; It's solid, accurate, reliable, bulletproof. It's a Clydesdale workhorse.

[Lew Archer]

Originally Posted by HansSolo

Research: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ro...ference-points

Very informative. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jim Johnson]

Okay, so I've narrowed it down to a 16710, swiss or swiss made (to get the luminova or superluminova) with an Oyster 78360 bracelet (which some came with).

One problem I'm confused on - if I get a 16710 that doesn't come with the Oyster 78360 bracelet that I like, and I have to buy it separate, will any Oyster 78360 band do (saw some on e-bay) - confused about the end link thing - is there a certain end link number I need so it will fit on this model?

Can you still get the Oyster 78360 band from Rolex?

[SS Oyster]

Jim - before you decide about the bracelet, I would suggest you try on a 16710 with it’s original bracelet. I think you will find it works great as built, so you can relax on a very expensive proposition of changing bracelets.

The other thing ... 16710 BLRO GMT Master II is a terrific watch, does wear smaller fit a 40mm watch. Also, the bracelet, while strong, feels far less substantial than the more modern 116710 or 126710, which has a far better clasp as well.

So ... advise trying them all on before pulling the trigger.

My strong advise is to get the one you want, which for me was the one below. Notice the colors lighten quite a bit in daylight and darken indoors. This one is a Mk2 purchased from Rolex Boutique April 2019.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tudk]

Originally Posted by HansSolo

Research: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ro...ference-points

Thanks for sharing that link

[Jim Johnson]

It would be smart to try them all before investing - agreed - thanks for the pics! Still wondering about the end links just so I'm clear...

[rmagoo57]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

I'll probably get flamed, but I retrofitted my c. 2000 16710 (P serial) with an aftermarket bezel and ceramic BLRO insert. I have the original bezel and aluminum black insert as well and it only takes me 5 minutes to swap them. Aluminum bezel inserts can get scratched, but the ceramic inserts are much more resistant to scratching, which is why I chose to create this frankenwatch.

Sorry Stan, but i gotta "flame" you. Looks like an 80 yr old man that dyed his hair jet black! Buy a new insert and enjoy it's natural beauty.

[Stan Cooper]

Originally Posted by rmagoo57

Sorry Stan, but i gotta "flame" you. Looks like an 80 yr old man that dyed his hair jet black! Buy a new insert and enjoy it's natural beauty.

Well, I'll be 80 next year, so I guess that fits, but I like my white hair.

I have the original anodized aluminum insert and it's in good shape. I just want to keep it that way and this one doesn't scratch nearly as easily. No offense taken, though.