WARNING: xxxx NOT to be trusted

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Originally Posted by MonBK

That's how he makes multi million dollars.

You didn't think it was on cat food, did you?

My daughter is a junior at Stanford and works at Facebook...if she tells me she wants to sell watch parts when she graduates I'm going to kill her

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

Yes, clearly I made my money by selling watch hands......just this one time.
...seems people are more annoyed at my wealth than the issue.

Granted, I may be in the wrong here, if it is proven he finds the hand in the package. But that has not happened yet, has it...

and then some just post because they can
and that is how one gets 46,477 posts

The issue is that you're wrongfully accusing a member here.

[Classique Breguet]

Originally Posted by MonBK

The issue is that you're wrongfully accusing a member here.

Hasn't been proven as wrongfully accusing yet, has it?
Can you answer this question?

Was I correctly or wrongfully accused of not sending what was promised? Provable or not?

So who is guilty until proven innocent? Who is innocent until proven guilty. Can't have it both ways... Problem is nothing is provable in this situation.

Facts show:
I mailed a package
He received a package
He said there were only 2 hands
I said there were 3 in a sealed zip lock taped shut taped inside cardboard
I said send the package back for a FULL REFUND, and that I would post the situation here.
7 hours pass.
I post here.
He said he would check the package again.
No response since



Is it possible someone broke into the package and removed only one hand? yes, but not very likely.
Is it possible I sent only 2 hands? From everyone else's side, yes, for me no, because I taped the clear bag shut with a clear view of the 3 hands inside.

I cannot speculate what happened without knowing it is only speculation. I could ask why he needed hands in the first place, but that only leads to more speculation, doesn't it...

At this point, we are at an impasse.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

Yes, clearly I made my money by selling watch hands......just this one time.
...seems people are more annoyed at my wealth than the issue.

Granted, I may be in the wrong here, if it is proven he finds the hand in the package. But that has not happened yet, has it...

and then some just post because they can
and that is how one gets 46,477 posts

You made the point of bringing that up. For someone who makes their living selling, you're not coming off very well. Whether or not this gets resolved, I know where I'm not spending any of my money.....

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by TheRolexKingofLV

My daughter is a junior at Stanford and works at Facebook...if she tells me she wants to sell watch parts when she graduates I'm going to kill her

Trace, I just pooped....

[Grahamcombat]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

Given it is un-provable if he stole it, or if I never sent it, your post is at the very least disingenuous, isn't it. Under what scenario could it be proven to your satisfaction that you would abide by your above pledge? Does one exist, were you realllly risking anything. Really, I would really like to hear what criteria could be available that you would accept. If there aren't any, then exactly what was the point of your post?

Since you can't prove it either: what's the point of yours?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Classique Breguet]

I'll do something novel in our exchange here, I'll directly answer your question without evading. You said you would do something if the un provable was proved, did you not? That was the point of my post responding to your post.

and, in further direct response, I've not asked for your money, have I? The idea that I want or need something from you is your own speculation, your own projection.


If someone falsely accuses me of scamming them, they had better be prepared for a vigorous defense. This is what happened here.

This, for me, is not about my/your suggested need to be liked, as it was pretty obvious to me I would get flamed as boorish by some members no matter how this was presented, or how it ends, this was posted to educate others so they may benefit from my poor judgement of not videotaping the contents clearly as they were handed off to a trackable carrier for this international shipment.

Lesson learned: NEVER deal with an international customer who requests no tracking, and ALWAYS have a video of handing the item off to fedx, etc. This has saved me twice with some large purchases. Had I done that, this would have never been posted here.

[blue16613]

Take Aways From This Totally Sophomoric Thread:

• The anonymity of the internet let's out personality traits and aggressions that would otherwise not exist.
• Neither one's level of education, personal accomplishment nor bank account are enough to suppress such boorish behavior
• In life one comes to know and appreciate their own personal cadre of trusted sellers and trusted buyers. The chances you'll find either while at an online sales forum are slim.

Mods, I respectfully request this thread gets deep sixed.

[Old Expat Beast]

Keeping thread open for now but removed email and home address of buyer.

[Classique Breguet]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Keeping thread open for now but removed email and home address of buyer.

Agreed, Fair enough. I should not have posted that in the first place.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

1st, being a doctor does not equate to being above scamming. I know a doctor who specializes in catching scamming doctors. My wife is a doctor as well, graduated top of her class at Stanford medical. I know probably 100 doctors, several of which I would not do business with and several more I would not want to "practice" on anyone I cared about. I am a business owner, a multi millionaire, (easily verifiable as well) and do not tolerate myself being accused of lying or scamming.

The reason I am so pissed and hypersensitive / hyper vigilant is the last two transactions I had which originated from rolex forums had problems. Both claimed nondelivery were international transactions for smaller items and were shipped us postal international which does not have tracking once it leaves the USA. I will never do this again. In BOTH cases, the items were "delivered" the day after I explained clearly I was going to post here my experience, not that I could prove that they did or did not get their packages, but that I had this situation, and if it were to be revealed as a pattern, members would know to be wary.

He has now contacted me, and will check to see if the missing hand is in the package. If it is, then I will immediately confess to my mistake of jumping the gun. If not, I will stick to simply telling my side as it happened. Fact is he emailed me saying one of three hands was missing from a sealed envelope. Opinions may differ how this happened, but I am not one to stand for being accused of not delivering what was promised and what I know 100% was in the package when sent.

So, yes, it is very possible I have jumped the gun here. The facts I am working with are: received an email saying one hand was missing. To me, this is an accusation there were only 2 of 3 hands sent. I sent email back 7 hours with no response before posting here. Of course given he is on the other side of the world, he could have easily missed it while sleeping.

He's about 11 time zones away and you think 7 hours is a fair time to wait before blasting the guy on a public forum? That's ridiculously short for a buyer on the other side of the planet. You couldn't wait a day for the emails to catch up to the time difference?

[Classique Breguet]

guilty as charged

[Sierrarls]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

I am a business owner, a multi millionaire, (easily verifiable as well) and do not tolerate myself being accused of lying or scamming.

My name is Elmer J Fudd. I am a millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.

And I joined TRF to educate myself about Rolex. WTF.

[Classique Breguet]

You are no doubt the funniest poster ever.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

I mailed a set of 16610LV hands to xxx in Australia.

He claimed one of the hands (hour hand) was missing in the shipment. I am 100% certain all 3 hands were in the same sealed ziplock bag, which was securely taped closed and surrounded by thick cardboard, in a sealed package. It is just not very likely that someone would have opened the package during shipment and only stolen one hand.

He may have scammed me, but lets not let him scam anyone else!

I have 100% feedback on WUS, rolexforums, over 900 on ebay, etc. I have bought and sold tens of thousands of dollars of watch stuff last year, including 4 rolexes here, but the last 3 small transactions I've had on Rolex forums dealing out of the country have had problems. Two said they did not receive the packages (but refused to pay for shipping with tracking) until I threatened to post about the situation here, then they magically arrived within 1 day.

We have to try to stop this. The least we can do is force the scammers to have to change contact information every time...

If the buyer is not willing to pay for tracking, they can claim it was never received. In my case, buyer is claiming one of three hands is missing, there is not much I can do to defend myself from this, but I can warn all of you that this person is NOT to be trusted ever again!

It is your part and your rules. If they don't agree to your terms, don't sell to them. I would never mail anything without tracking. If they are that damn frugal I'd forget about dealing with them.

[Classique Breguet]

I just learned that lesson...on the third try. Apparently I'm a slow learner.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

Agreed. In this case, I had a funny feeling about this guy so I forced him to pay paypal gift. I assume he really needed the hands. Likely had a bad hand, likely the one he claimed was "missing" from the package.

At first he balked, but then agreed. Since it was paypal gift, and I emailed him photos of the package being left at the post office, seemed everything was fine. This morning I get a message that the package arrived, but one hand was "missing"

What has saved me in the past was "secretly" videotaping placing an expensive watch in the box, then sealing the box and handing it over to FEDX in one take, with the product never off camera, etc. I only revealed this video to paypal after the buyer claimed damage or some other B.S. I did not do that in this case because the value was only $280. Lesson learned though.

There is a growing number of scammers on the internet and the scams are getting more clever so we must work together to protect ourselves as much as possible.

Another reason not to take Paypal. It just isn't worth the drama with Paypal.

[deepakc]

Dear all, I have just visited the forum in between surgical cases to find that this thread has expanded at an alarming rate. I don't like to air dirty laundry in public but it appears that things have spiraled out of control here!

I don't think that classic Breguet is lying. He mailed the package appropriately and it arrived as per the photo he sent me. There was no zip lock bag but there was a paper Rolex pouch taped in between folded cardboard. When I opened the pouch there were 2 folded strips of paper- one containing a second hand and the other containing the minute hand. There has been an error somewhere and I believe it is not intentional. I will go and look again and see if it is in there when I get home from work (it is currently after midday here). Also on that note- the reason there was a seven hour wait before my email reply is because it was the middle of the night here and i was sleeping. With any luck it is my stupidity and it is lodged somewhere in the packaging. If not then I will put a WTB post for a 16610LV maxi hour hand and see if anyon is still willing to deal with me!

[deepakc]

Also, I paid with paypal gift so I can not scam you! I have no
Buyer protection or insurance and there is absolutely nothing I can do to get any money back whatsoever unless you voluntarily agree to give it back. I am
Obviously a terrible scammer.

[Grahamcombat]

Originally Posted by deepakc

Dear all, I have just visited the forum in between surgical cases to find that this thread has expanded at an alarming rate. I don't like to air dirty laundry in public but it appears that things have spiraled out of control here!

I don't think that classic Breguet is lying. He mailed the package appropriately and it arrived as per the photo he sent me. There was no zip lock bag but there was a paper Rolex pouch taped in between folded cardboard. When I opened the pouch there were 2 folded strips of paper- one containing a second hand and the other containing the minute hand. There has been an error somewhere and I believe it is not intentional. I will go and look again and see if it is in there when I get home from work (it is currently after midday here). Also on that note- the reason there was a seven hour wait before my email reply is because it was the middle of the night here and i was sleeping. With any luck it is my stupidity and it is lodged somewhere in the packaging. If not then I will put a WTB post for a 16610LV maxi hour hand and see if anyon is still willing to deal with me!

I'll deal with you sir. You've been nothing if not not honorable. Please let me know if there is anything I can do for you. -Matt


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[AK797]

Clearly the OP has been burned before or nearly was, and has jumped the gun here. Sufficient time should be given for responses, usually a few days and after 2/3 messages have been sent, before going public. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

[Classique Breguet]

In thinking about it. I agree I completely jumped the gun here in pure reaction to my last two experiences of attempted scamming. In this case, given the responses from the buyer, I believe at this point there was no malice intended.

Given this, MODERATOR, it may be in everyone's best interest to delete this thread now.

I do not see a path to resolution at this point, but this mess could dissapear with my consent and blessing.

You could leave it up if you think that is more useful, your choice, I do suggest you consider changing the title as it appears to not be terribly valid at this point.
I'm thinking more for the benefit of the buyer, not so much for the peanut gallery comments, their kindergarden blather means very little to me, nothing more witty than the typical "oh yeah" of a 4 year old.

[Fjweld]

Originally Posted by AK797

Clearly the OP has been burned before or nearly was, and has jumped the gun here. Sufficient time should be given for responses, usually a few days and after 2/3 messages have been sent, before going public. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

From reading some of OP's for sale posts, I don't think he's been burned IMO he is just not a nice person (IMO)

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

In thinking about it. I agree I completely jumped the gun here in pure reaction to my last two experiences of attempted scamming. In this case, given the responses from the buyer, I believe at this point there was no malice intended.

Given this, MODERATOR, it may be in everyone's best interest to delete this thread now.

I do not see a path to resolution at this point, but this mess could dissapear with my consent and blessing.

I have a few posts I'd like to make disappear too

Something tells me you'll be wearing this thread like a scar.

[Classique Breguet]

Originally Posted by Fjweld

From reading some of OP's for sale posts, I don't think he's been burned IMO he is just not a nice person (IMO)

So, you then have a list of all the emails I've received at my email, do you?

So you have a rational evidencial basis for your opinion then, yes?

I don't expect you to answer directly for obvious reasons.

I believe this bartmoon emoticon says it best

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

In thinking about it. I agree I completely jumped the gun here in pure reaction to my last two experiences of attempted scamming. In this case, given the responses from the buyer, I believe at this point there was no malice intended.

Given this, MODERATOR, it may be in everyone's best interest to delete this thread now.

I do not see a path to resolution at this point, but this mess could dissapear with my consent and blessing.

Yes, I am sure you would like it to go away. However, I have edited and deleted a couple of posts here to protect the buyer's good name, but I am leaving it open for now as a lesson in how NOT to conduct yourself when dealing with issues like this on TRF.

[Fjweld]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

So, you then have a list of all the emails I've received at my email, do you?

So you have a rational evidencial basis for your opinion then, yes?

Good luck with post

[johnjm]

Originally Posted by grahamcombat

you are proving my point: Why post he's a scammer if you. Don't. Know?

Why not wait and see? He has as much right (though he probably wouldn't because of scruples) to come on here and accuse you. But he didn't.

Again, your actions of vilify then verify make me know who i'm going to do my next $250 deal with.


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+1

[Fjweld]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Yes, I am sure you would like it to go away. However, I have edited and deleted a couple of posts here to protect the buyer's good name, but I am leaving it open for now as a lesson in how NOT to conduct yourself when dealing with issues like this on TRF.

As always ExPat

[Classique Breguet]

Ok, fair enough mod. I can't argue with that.

However you might want to change the title, since it appears to not be terribly valid at this point.

There are lessons still to be learned of not doing deals where the buyer declines tracking, and the even better one of taking a cel phone video of the packing and handing off to the carrier as proof of what was sent. Had I had that, they buyer would know at the very least that what was promised was sent, this is at the core of the cause of this dispute.