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04jtb · 2 December 2018, 02:31 AM

Recently bought my first Rolex, a 18603 two tone and it’s been perfect! However for my insurance I needed an independent valuation so took it to a registered valuer today who seemed to think it was not legitimate due to the engraving on the lugs and the lume on the dial.. however they didn’t remove the case back to check the movement.. I later took it to another jeweller who did remove the caseback for me but also seemed to think there was no problem with any of it and that it was all correct for the age. I’ve attached all the pics I’ve been given by the valuer and the ones I have taken of the movement and would like peoples opinion on here please.

The first valuer took issue with the lume , particularly at 7.00 . Also the etching of ‘stainless’ and the ‘OL’ in Rolex on the lugs. They also mentioned there being a crown engraving on the Crystal being wrong for the year but I can accept that it may have had a new crystal in the past 32 years.

TLDR , is it legit or not ? Many thanks Jack

JacksonStone · 2 December 2018, 03:02 AM

Not seeing any pics.

04jtb · 2 December 2018, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Not seeing any pics.

Sorry I uploaded them to Flickr then linked them in , is there a better way ?

04jtb · 2 December 2018, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04jtb

Sorry I uploaded them to Flickr then linked them in , is there a better way ?

Here is the album they are in

https://flickr.com/photos/64965985@N...57698317676460

MARGARITATIME · 2 December 2018, 03:40 AM

You can get it checked during a Rolex service. They will also warranty it for 2yrs I believe. Any irregularities can be rectified by Rolex. Wish I could help, but not knowlegable on 5 digit watches.

04jtb · 2 December 2018, 04:55 PM

Further to the pics this watch also has the instant date change. Are there any fakes that change instantly like a Rolex should

asiparks · 2 December 2018, 06:33 PM

It might be the photo/ smudgy fingerprints on the crystal, but the hands look really rough...is the lumed section on the minute hand pointed at both ends ?

04jtb · 2 December 2018, 06:39 PM

Yes the lume is pointed both ends, the lume is much brighter on the minute hand too so I assume it’s been replaced

JacksonStone · 2 December 2018, 09:26 PM

First up, it's a 16803, not a 18603. The model number in the caseback says 16800, which is the black SS model. Minute hand is fake. 7:00 lume plot is a problem. Right there is enough to suggest this is possibly a franken, maybe worse. You may wish to consider sending it to Rolex for authentication.

04jtb · 2 December 2018, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

First up, it's a 16803, not a 18603. The model number in the caseback says 16800, which is the black SS model. Minute hand is fake. 7:00 lume plot is a problem. Right there is enough to suggest this is possibly a franken, maybe worse. You may wish to consider sending it to Rolex for authentication.

Thank you for your reply , I think it may be best for me to do this as I cannot be sure otherwise. I believe from my research that all casebacks on this model were stamped 16800

TimeToGo · 2 December 2018, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04jtb

Thank you for your reply , I think it may be best for me to do this as I cannot be sure otherwise. I believe from my research that all casebacks on this model were stamped 16800

You are correct about the caseback. 16800 is fine. I think the watch has some real parts but others.... very questionable

TimeToGo · 2 December 2018, 10:54 PM

Yes, there appears to be some inconsistensies with the case engravings, as mentioned with the letter spacing..
Below are some pics for your comparison from the HQ Milton site.
I notice initially the pointed "A" on the case... Just need to keep doing your due diligence..
Did you purchase recently?
.

TimeToGo · 2 December 2018, 11:04 PM

Also notice the difference of the "1" on serial..
.

asiparks · 3 December 2018, 12:05 AM

the L and E in "STAINLESS" look like they were electropencilled in...
Hard to be sure but the dial print looks unevenly done too...

not a movement expert, but it looks ok....

GLADIATOR · 3 December 2018, 03:44 AM

ALL looks mighty suspicious to me.
PM me the serial number I will run a test on it.
Movement and inside case photos??

04jtb · 3 December 2018, 07:59 AM

Many thanks Gladiator, have PM’d you!

Thank you for the very detailed reply TimeToGo I agree with what you have shown me from the other photos , and I did purchase recently within the last couple of months

Asiparks, yes I agree the LE looks different and slightly wobbly

GLADIATOR · 3 December 2018, 08:53 AM

Responded.
That serial number comes up clean

04jtb · 4 December 2018, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Responded.
That serial number comes up clean

Thank you , I take it that is a pretty good indicator that it is genuine ? Many thanks

GLADIATOR · 4 December 2018, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04jtb

Thank you , I take it that is a pretty good indicator that it is genuine ? Many thanks

Sadly not.
Just means that serial number is not an obvious fake.
Your watch may be a marriage piece - or a fake movement still

04jtb · 4 December 2018, 06:24 AM

From what I’ve read there was never a fake version of the 3035 that’s in this watch, is this true do you know? Either way I stayed up until midnight last night and the date changed instantly at around 11.56 as Rolexes are meant to

GLADIATOR · 4 December 2018, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04jtb

From what I’ve read there was never a fake version of the 3035 that’s in this watch, is this true do you know? Either way I stayed up until midnight last night and the date changed instantly at around 11.56 as Rolexes are meant to

You are kidding?
Why not just change the hands to see at what time it flips over??

To confirm / authenticate we need to see movement
A

04jtb · 4 December 2018, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

You are kidding?
Why not just change the hands to see at what time it flips over??

To confirm / authenticate we need to see movement
A

I was awake anyway

I’ve attached the only two photos I took when I had a jeweller remove the rear case at the weekend. Unfortunately I didn’t realise at the time it was the balance wheel that needs to be seen and don’t have the removal tools

GLADIATOR · 4 December 2018, 06:55 AM

What I can see that looks good
A

JacksonStone · 4 December 2018, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

What I can see that looks good
A

The movement looks OK, although it would help to see the balance. Regardless, there's no question that minute hand is not genuine, and it looks like either one or more of the lume plots was replaced, or the dial is fake. So at a minimum we can say - even if the watch itself is genuine (and I'm not convinced it is) - at some point in its history, someone got hold of it and did some dodgy "repair" work, leaving the watch as some form of a franken. OP, my best advice remains submitting it to Rolex for verification. They'll tell you if it's genuine, and if so, what is needed to bring it back to fully correct condition.

Best of luck.

breitlings · 4 December 2018, 07:17 AM

The movement looks rough to me. I would want to see the rotor on the other side. The whole watch is rough. I would guess it's partially real, partially rebuilt with fake parts.

I think you should wait for crown and caliber to weigh in. but I have some concerns that I would think the insurance adjusters would share. Maybe it's not "fake" but maybe its not worth what a 16803 is usually worth. I would guess somewhere like 2k-4k USD maybe if my concerns are borne.

function12 · 4 December 2018, 07:31 AM

I don't like the Swiss markings on the face either.

Haywood_Milton · 4 December 2018, 09:13 AM

If the case has been renumbered, how much further does the discussion need to go?

TimeToGo · 4 December 2018, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

If the case has been renumbered, how much further does the discussion need to go?

Thank you, Sir!
The answer is right in front but hard to accept..

crowncollection · 4 December 2018, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

Thank you, Sir!

The answer is right in front but hard to accept..

Exactly

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04jtb · 6 December 2018, 06:11 AM

Thanks for all your replies , all sorted now !

2 December 2018, 02:31 AM	#1
04jtb "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: UK Watch: 16613, SMP Posts: 37	Difference of opinion Recently bought my first Rolex, a 18603 two tone and it’s been perfect! However for my insurance I needed an independent valuation so took it to a registered valuer today who seemed to think it was not legitimate due to the engraving on the lugs and the lume on the dial.. however they didn’t remove the case back to check the movement.. I later took it to another jeweller who did remove the caseback for me but also seemed to think there was no problem with any of it and that it was all correct for the age. I’ve attached all the pics I’ve been given by the valuer and the ones I have taken of the movement and would like peoples opinion on here please. The first valuer took issue with the lume , particularly at 7.00 . Also the etching of ‘stainless’ and the ‘OL’ in Rolex on the lugs. They also mentioned there being a crown engraving on the Crystal being wrong for the year but I can accept that it may have had a new crystal in the past 32 years. TLDR , is it legit or not ? Many thanks Jack

2 December 2018, 06:33 PM	#7
asiparks "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Portland, OR Watch: ing the Detectives Posts: 1,884	It might be the photo/ smudgy fingerprints on the crystal, but the hands look really rough...is the lumed section on the minute hand pointed at both ends ? __________________ Eagels may soar, but weasels are seldom sucked into jet engines...

3 December 2018, 12:05 AM	#14
asiparks "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Portland, OR Watch: ing the Detectives Posts: 1,884	the L and E in "STAINLESS" look like they were electropencilled in... Hard to be sure but the dial print looks unevenly done too... not a movement expert, but it looks ok.... __________________ Eagels may soar, but weasels are seldom sucked into jet engines...

3 December 2018, 03:44 AM	#15
GLADIATOR "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Real Name: Adam Location: Costa Blanca, Watch: YMII,GMTII,DAYTONA Posts: 5,288	ALL looks mighty suspicious to me. PM me the serial number I will run a test on it. Movement and inside case photos?? __________________ The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill "We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."

3 December 2018, 08:53 AM	#17
GLADIATOR "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Real Name: Adam Location: Costa Blanca, Watch: YMII,GMTII,DAYTONA Posts: 5,288	Responded. That serial number comes up clean __________________ The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill "We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."

2 December 2018, 03:02 AM	#2
JacksonStone Banned Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,150	Not seeing any pics.

2 December 2018, 03:40 AM	#5
MARGARITATIME "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Watch: 116610lv, 116710BL Posts: 279	You can get it checked during a Rolex service. They will also warranty it for 2yrs I believe. Any irregularities can be rectified by Rolex. Wish I could help, but not knowlegable on 5 digit watches.

2 December 2018, 04:55 PM	#6
04jtb "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: UK Watch: 16613, SMP Posts: 37	Further to the pics this watch also has the instant date change. Are there any fakes that change instantly like a Rolex should

2 December 2018, 06:39 PM	#8
04jtb "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: UK Watch: 16613, SMP Posts: 37	Yes the lume is pointed both ends, the lume is much brighter on the minute hand too so I assume it’s been replaced

2 December 2018, 09:26 PM	#9
JacksonStone Banned Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,150	First up, it's a 16803, not a 18603. The model number in the caseback says 16800, which is the black SS model. Minute hand is fake. 7:00 lume plot is a problem. Right there is enough to suggest this is possibly a franken, maybe worse. You may wish to consider sending it to Rolex for authentication.

3 December 2018, 07:59 AM	#16
04jtb "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: UK Watch: 16613, SMP Posts: 37	Many thanks Gladiator, have PM’d you! Thank you for the very detailed reply TimeToGo I agree with what you have shown me from the other photos , and I did purchase recently within the last couple of months Asiparks, yes I agree the LE looks different and slightly wobbly

4 December 2018, 06:24 AM	#20
04jtb "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: UK Watch: 16613, SMP Posts: 37	From what I’ve read there was never a fake version of the 3035 that’s in this watch, is this true do you know? Either way I stayed up until midnight last night and the date changed instantly at around 11.56 as Rolexes are meant to

4 December 2018, 06:55 AM	#23
GLADIATOR "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Real Name: Adam Location: Costa Blanca, Watch: YMII,GMTII,DAYTONA Posts: 5,288	What I can see that looks good A __________________ The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill "We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."

4 December 2018, 07:17 AM	#25
breitlings Banned Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Bethesda Watch: Apple TV Posts: 5,744	The movement looks rough to me. I would want to see the rotor on the other side. The whole watch is rough. I would guess it's partially real, partially rebuilt with fake parts. I think you should wait for crown and caliber to weigh in. but I have some concerns that I would think the insurance adjusters would share. Maybe it's not "fake" but maybe its not worth what a 16803 is usually worth. I would guess somewhere like 2k-4k USD maybe if my concerns are borne.

4 December 2018, 07:31 AM	#26
function12 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 518	I don't like the Swiss markings on the face either.

4 December 2018, 09:13 AM	#27
Haywood_Milton "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: Yes, it is ! Location: Cheshire & Mersey Watch: Military issue Sub Posts: 1,319	If the case has been renumbered, how much further does the discussion need to go? __________________ Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 Milgauss 1019x3 Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660.

6 December 2018, 06:11 AM	#30
04jtb "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: UK Watch: 16613, SMP Posts: 37	Thanks for all your replies , all sorted now !

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