Red Sub - 1680 Red Flags / Overall Quick Impressions?

[SLD]

Vintage gang,

I am looking to purchase a Red Sub 1680 from an original owner (buy the owner and all that) and just wanted to get your quick expert opinions on this photo. I'm new to the vintage scene (have other modern Rolex pieces) and would love your input.





This is described to me as a one owner red sub, with what appears to be a Mark IV feet first dial. The watch he clearly been worn (I am more than okay with that) and from my initial research, looks wonderful. I will, of course, have it authenticated but ... first impressions?

[inadeje]

I’m no expert on these but the hands seem to have been changed and the crystal is skewed.

[Styles Bitchley]

What’s the serial? The dial and hands on my mk4 are similarly mismatched and I’m pretty sure they’re original. Lights are well worn on this example but it has a nice well loved vibe about it. Service insert, btw.

[SLD]

Serial is 2,8X and yes, seller has disclosed the service insert. So that’s good. I’m believing the seller that the hands are original (for now) unless others can jump in there. Appreciate the insight so far, thank you kindly.


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[alwayshere]

As Styles has said, it looks like a Mark 4 dial and looks in good shape too. The crown guards are thin(ner) though. The hands might be service.

The insert needs another look. the pearl is aftermarket so question if the insert is genuine at all (I haven't bothered to check the guides).

Also, crystal is aftermarket.

Whats the asking price roughly?

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by SLD

Serial is 2,8X and yes, seller has disclosed the service insert. So that’s good. I’m believing the seller that the hands are original (for now) unless others can jump in there. Appreciate the insight so far, thank you kindly.


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Mine is 2.8 too, so I’d say there’s a good chance there was some different lume being used by the hands and dial makers at that time. Others will disagree though. Price should reflect the well worn lugs and aftermarket/ service bits and bobs.

[SLD]

You are all wonderful, thanks for the fast feedback.

Seller is asking 12,500 no box, no papers. Thoughts on that price?


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[Hkspwrsche]

Originally Posted by SLD

You are all wonderful, thanks for the fast feedback.

Seller is asking 12,500 no box, no papers. Thoughts on that price?


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At that price, it’s certainly more attractive even with a few minor questions and polished case. I’d take that deal myself. Good luck.

[KY..]

I would have hurried and bought it at $12,500 USD for sure.
If it is $12,500 GBP I would still do it.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

What’s the serial? The dial and hands on my mk4 are similarly mismatched and I’m pretty sure they’re original. Lights are well worn on this example but it has a nice well loved vibe about it. Service insert, btw.

Mine were also (and it’s a 2.9 mil serial), until I wore it every day in the sun for about 6 months. Then they matched.


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[mbc]

You need clearer pics with full printing visible. Even with the issues, 12.5k sounds a bit fishy to me. Dial/hands alone would be worth a high % of that. I don’t see anything immediate on the dial, but study and over study. Check movement, case back, lug markings, etc.

[MrChamfers]

Oh man, these go for more than twice that. You might get a steal if the case and dial check out.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by SLD

You are all wonderful, thanks for the fast feedback.

Seller is asking 12,500 no box, no papers. Thoughts on that price?


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no brainer for $12,500 - it also comes with what might be a 93150.

insert and crystal can be replaced.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by SLD

Seller is asking 12,500 no box, no papers. Thoughts on that price?

Suspiciously cheap - I'd expect around double that price.

If it's just some old guy who doesn't know what he has, fair enough. Buy him a nice bottle of Scotch, too.

If it's via a dealer who knows what he's doing, ask what's wrong with it.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Suspiciously cheap - I'd expect around double that price.

If it's just some old guy who doesn't know what he has, fair enough. Buy him a nice bottle of Scotch, too.

If it's via a dealer who knows what he's doing, ask what's wrong with it.

This ^

[lancelot]

At 12.5k, its definitely at the lower end of the market, it has obviously had a polish over the years as you can see the pin sticking out of the top right lug, also maybe worth getting it under a UV light just to check the dial/hands are in order

[SLD]

Thank you for the pricing feedback, I do appreciate it.

I am going to look at the watch this weekend and will take all of your notes with me. Very interested to learn more about this particular 1680. I will update this thread with more information as a get it.

[pc109]

Not an expert, and the pics are low resolution/poor lighting, but…

The bezel insert bothers me a lot. It has the metal surround Pearl, but doesn’t even look like typical luminova 16610 or 14060 bezel fonts, “5” on the 50 looks squat, the “10” relation to the hash marks look weird, overall font looks thin. Really reminds me of the inserts on fake Chinatown subs. Experts please correct me if I’m mistaken…

In light of that, plus all the good reps/Frankens out there along with the unbelievable price, I’d be very careful to look at the movement, case engravings.

As for the hands differing in patina from lume plots, I wouldn’t care about that since that era, they aged differently. I would be the most concerned about having the proper correct shaped hands.

For OP, I’d go study what the latest fake 1570 movements look like, dials coming out of Vietnam, and all their tells (if any, these days)…

If this watch is proper other than the insert, this is a great looking wearer.

[michaelodonnell123]

Until you have it fully authenticated, inside (remove case back) and outside by somebody who knows what they are doing, assume it's fake. Many people post here how they got screwed over with a fake or Frankenstein watch. Don't be the next guy.

[karleone]

Hard pass. Case has been overpolished (springbar getting out of the case!), no more chamfers / bevels, lugs brushing not near close to a Rolex V brush factory finish... The case is in very bad shape

[77T]

Originally Posted by SLD

Thank you for the pricing feedback, I do appreciate it.

I am going to look at the watch this weekend and will take all of your notes with me. Very interested to learn more about this particular 1680. I will update this thread with more information as a get it.

From the narrative, am I right to think you are dealing with the owner directly?

If so, be sure you know the seller very well and not walking into something sketchy. That may be the reason for the asking price.

But - If it's a dealer, then this is suspiciously low. Good luck on your visit, from the photos it looks interesting if all works out to be genuine.

[Styles Bitchley]

If the dial is legit, it’s worth the asking price almost on its own. However, the photo seems to show a stain or mark of some kind on the left side. Maybe it’s in the crystal or the lighting but both images seem to have the same discolouration.

[springer]

I tend to agree with some of the other comments. First off, that is not a 1680 service insert. Look at the pearl - it has the metal band around the pearl. I have no idea what it is, maybe it's from a later sapphire model such as a Sub 16610.

The case is been substantially polished - to start with, look at the top right lug.

But, if the OP likes the watch, so do I. The price is reasonable for what it is.

[alwayshere]

its really important to check the dial out 100%. There is a very good fake Mark IV dial that I have been made aware of - probably only very very small printing differences compared to the genuine. I would want better and closer pics showing all of the text to be sure.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

its really important to check the dial out 100%. There is a very good fake Mark IV dial that I have been made aware of - probably only very very small printing differences compared to the genuine. I would want better and closer pics showing all of the text to be sure.

Was this fake developed recently?
The OP dial looks very aged to me.

[Dan S]

The insert and case are the issues, but they may be baked into the price as long as you're ok with the case.

[Realezt01]

Nice bruv