How is this any different to a #1 restaurant, Porsche or Ferrari limited run, Clubs?

[inadeje]

Thread after thread concerning the disgust, head-scratching and indignation that Rolex AD’s don’t have watches, restrict sales or are selective with customers. Yet we have examples all around us that this happens in many industries, services and retail environments.

Ferrari 599 GTO, F12 TDF, 812 GTS - Just one example of limited run 12 cylinder Ferrari’s (there are many other variants). These cars were all limited production. You weren’t getting one unless you have an extensive and contemporary buying history with Ferrari. Out-the-gate lucky buyers could quadruple (or more) retail price, but Ferrari keeps tabs on these resale shenanigans and the offenders NEVER get a sought after Ferrari again. NO MATTER who they are.

Porsche GT-2, GT-3 - ditto above

The most popular restaurant in a major city - News flash - You’re probably never getting a table. If you do it will be outside of usual dining hours. After you’ve dined numerous times during these bizarre hours you’ll create a “relationship” and maybe, just maybe, you’ll get to dine one Friday night if its your 30 wedding anniversary, birthday etc. Maybe… Dress code? If they say no sneakers, you’re not getting in with sneakers NO MATTER who they are.

Clubs - Super select nightclubs. Has anyone tried to get into a major city’s hottest nightspot?

Golf Clubs - Anyone play Golf? How about the chicest Golf Club in say the Hamptons? Are you just showing up there, paying your membership and playing? How many personal references do you need? Interview? Board approval?

I hope that this thread isn’t off topic, but the memo everyone isn’t getting is that Rolex has moved upmarket in dramatic fashion. Some of It’s products have become the unicorn of the watch world. This Forum you’re reading hasn’t probably ever been as active as it is now.

The “disgust”, “AD won’t”, “empty cases” and “waiting list” threads are just repetitive reminders that our much loved brand has hit the high notes, it’s become coveted, it’s arriving in Patek or AP territory, or moving close to this niche.

I’ve listed a few examples of industries, services and retail environments in which this has been the case for DECADES. Anyone else care to provide more examples, services or products that coincide with this new Rolex reality? If only to bring back some sanity to TRF and underline why this current situation isn’t as abnormal as we incessantly or continuously keep reading.

The Rolex boat sailed, or at least it has for the foreseeable future. I for one salute Rolex, it’s truly masterful what they’ve achieved through marketing and supply quotas. They’ve cultivated this brand in such a manner that it’s so impressive to see it explode the way it has over the past few years. We lose perspective though, we are blessed that this happened on our watch (pardon the pun). I mean that it’s happening now and we are witnessing it first hand. It’s only taken 116 years…, but things have changed positively for the brand. It was overdue in my humble opinion.

[Brew]

Ma Nishtana?


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[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by inadeje

Thread after thread concerning the disgust, head-scratching and indignation that Rolex AD’s don’t have watches, restrict sales or are selective with customers. Yet we have examples all around us that this happens in many industries, services and retail environments.

Ferrari 599 GTO, F12 TDF, 812 GTS - Just one example of limited run 12 cylinder Ferrari’s (there are many other variants). These cars were all limited production. You weren’t getting one unless you have an extensive and contemporary buying history with Ferrari. Out-the-gate lucky buyers could quadruple (or more) retail price, but Ferrari keeps tabs on these resale shenanigans and the offenders NEVER get a sought after Ferrari again. NO MATTER who they are.

Porsche GT-2, GT-3 - ditto above

The most popular restaurant in a major city - News flash - You’re probably never getting a table. If you do it will be outside of usual dining hours. After you’ve dined numerous times during these bizarre hours you’ll create a “relationship” and maybe, just maybe, you’ll get to dine one Friday night if its your 30 wedding anniversary, birthday etc. Maybe… Dress code? If they say no sneakers, you’re not getting in with sneakers NO MATTER who they are.

Clubs - Super select nightclubs. Has anyone tried to get into a major cities hottest nightspot?

Golf Clubs - Anyone play Golf? How about the chicest Golf Club in say the Hamptons? Are you just showing up there, paying your membership and playing? How many personal references do you need? Interview? Board approval?

I hope that this thread isn’t off topic, but the memo everyone isn’t getting is that Rolex has moved upmarket in dramatic fashion. Some of It’s products have become the unicorn of the watch world. This Forum you’re reading hasn’t probably ever been as active as it is now.

The “disgust”, “AD won’t”, “empty cases” and “waiting list” threads are just repetitive reminders that our much loved brand has hit the high notes, it’s become coveted, it’s arriving in Patek or AP territory, or moving close to this niche.

I’ve listed a few examples of industries, services and retail environments in which this has been the case for DECADES. Anyone else care to provide more examples, services or products that coincide with this new Rolex reality? If only to bring back some sanity to TRF and underline why this current situation isn’t as abnormal as we incessantly or continuously keep reading.

The Rolex boat sailed, or at least it has for the foreseeable future. I for one salute Rolex, it’s truly masterful what they’ve achieved through marketing and supply quotas. They’ve cultivated this brand in such a manner that it’s so impressive to see it explode the way it has over the past few years. We lose perspective though, we are blessed that this happened on our watch (pardon the pun). I mean that it’s happening now and we are witnessing it first hand. It’s only taken 116 years…, but things have changed positively for the brand. It was overdue in my humble opinion.

Totally Agree

[Nanasaka90]

I agree. It’s frustrating, but it’s reasonable.


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[Little machines]

Agreed!! Realistic post.

[Goin2drt]

The only problem is you are comparing apples to oranges and your logic is missing one fact. Rolex ADs have ZERO inventory. Sure Ferrari and Porsche have hard to get unicorn cars but they HAVE cars and suvs for you to buy when you walk into the dealer. Comparing a material item to “access” to a place is also a REALLY far stretch.

[mountainjogger]

Agreed.

[teck21]

The difference is many of those are out of the league of most, and they understand and accept it.

Based on msrp alone though, many have not yet come to accept the same for Rolex.


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[airchitect]

Agree in some respects except many of your examples are far more upmarket than Rolex. Meaning they’re more comparable to Patek, Journe, etc. Not run of the mill Rolex.


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[geoffreyis]

Originally Posted by Brew

Ma Nishtana?


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Exactly!!!!!

[geoffreyis]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

The only problem is you are comparing apples to oranges and your logic is missing one fact. Rolex ADs have ZERO inventory. Sure Ferrari and Porsche have hard to get unicorn cars but they HAVE cars and suvs for you to buy when you walk into the dealer. Comparing a material item to “access” to a place is also a REALLY far stretch.

Not entirely true. Porsche dealer nearby has no inventory. Albeit 2 Macans. Not much to see.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by airchitect

Agree in some respects except many of your examples are far more upmarket than Rolex. Meaning they’re more comparable to Patek, Journe, etc. Not run of the mill Rolex.


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Yes, they are far more upmarket.

His point is that Rolex is moving upmarket.

My point is that many are currently either not cognizant or accepting of that.


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[Societas]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

The only problem is you are comparing apples to oranges and your logic is missing one fact. Rolex ADs have ZERO inventory. Sure Ferrari and Porsche have hard to get unicorn cars but they HAVE cars and suvs for you to buy when you walk into the dealer. Comparing a material item to “access” to a place is also a REALLY far stretch.

Plenty of inventory :) ==> diamond / lady DJ in the windows, some sports models in the safe.

I agree with OP point. What can be viewed as shocking is the disconnect between the level of exclusivity and the relative affordability of certain SS models, IMHO

[rolexgiants]

Originally Posted by Brew

Ma Nishtana?


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Halailah hazeh...

That’s all I remember! LOL.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by rolexgiants

Halailah hazeh...

That’s all I remember! LOL.

Haha…..same here

[TswaneNguni]

Lost me at the car section .....

[Shadow Play]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

The only problem is you are comparing apples to oranges and your logic is missing one fact. Rolex ADs have ZERO inventory. Sure Ferrari and Porsche have hard to get unicorn cars but they HAVE cars and suvs for you to buy when you walk into the dealer. Comparing a material item to “access” to a place is also a REALLY far stretch.

Just last week the AD in my home city had over a dozen Rolex watches in the window. Every single watch was a Datejust.

I also believe Rolex had positioned Tudor so that almost every model is available. Just like Omega and Breitling.

[brandrea]

I was at RSC Toronto yesterday (love that place btw), and even the display cases in their lobby were empty

[77T]

If you mean the level of whining then our WIS community might take top step on the podium.

Of course there are some differences, but in general our whines are more like fingernails scratching on an old fashioned chalkboard.

There are generational and doctrinal differences between the groups of sports car buyers, golfers, diners and Rolex seekers.

Even here on TRF we see that - the value cohort, the vintage cohort, the flex cohort…all the way to the first-time buyers who are new to mechanical watches - and all the colors in between those groups.

It makes our watch world quite diverse.

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[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Lost me at the car section .....

Exactly. Trying to compare a limited run (very limited) $500K+ car to a $30K SS model that you can go buy ANY OF THEM today from a gray.

[1William]

I like the OP's points and see it also with other luxury goods and services. I believe the expectation for some is that if a company produces a good and sets a price they should be able to buy it for that price. Works with most items but for some, not so much. It all comes down to money. If we could walk into any AD and buy what ever watch we wanted for retail or less then many would not want them. I remember the days of getting any Rolex, except the Daytona in SS, at a discount and on the spot. Trusted Sellers were loved for the discounts and post after post on TRF was about the good deals we got. Now it is as much about speculation and equity in the watches and if you get it at retail you can sell in the future for more. In the end, it is always about the watches for me.

[JRell]

Totally agree. I’m just trying to get a bottle of Blanton’s!

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by inadeje

Thread after thread concerning the disgust, head-scratching and indignation that Rolex AD’s don’t have watches, restrict sales or are selective with customers. Yet we have examples all around us that this happens in many industries, services and retail environments.

Ferrari 599 GTO, F12 TDF, 812 GTS - Just one example of limited run 12 cylinder Ferrari’s (there are many other variants). These cars were all limited production. You weren’t getting one unless you have an extensive and contemporary buying history with Ferrari. Out-the-gate lucky buyers could quadruple (or more) retail price, but Ferrari keeps tabs on these resale shenanigans and the offenders NEVER get a sought after Ferrari again. NO MATTER who they are.

Porsche GT-2, GT-3 - ditto above

The most popular restaurant in a major city - News flash - You’re probably never getting a table. If you do it will be outside of usual dining hours. After you’ve dined numerous times during these bizarre hours you’ll create a “relationship” and maybe, just maybe, you’ll get to dine one Friday night if its your 30 wedding anniversary, birthday etc. Maybe… Dress code? If they say no sneakers, you’re not getting in with sneakers NO MATTER who they are.

Clubs - Super select nightclubs. Has anyone tried to get into a major city’s hottest nightspot?

Golf Clubs - Anyone play Golf? How about the chicest Golf Club in say the Hamptons? Are you just showing up there, paying your membership and playing? How many personal references do you need? Interview? Board approval?

I hope that this thread isn’t off topic, but the memo everyone isn’t getting is that Rolex has moved upmarket in dramatic fashion. Some of It’s products have become the unicorn of the watch world. This Forum you’re reading hasn’t probably ever been as active as it is now.

The “disgust”, “AD won’t”, “empty cases” and “waiting list” threads are just repetitive reminders that our much loved brand has hit the high notes, it’s become coveted, it’s arriving in Patek or AP territory, or moving close to this niche.

I’ve listed a few examples of industries, services and retail environments in which this has been the case for DECADES. Anyone else care to provide more examples, services or products that coincide with this new Rolex reality? If only to bring back some sanity to TRF and underline why this current situation isn’t as abnormal as we incessantly or continuously keep reading.

The Rolex boat sailed, or at least it has for the foreseeable future. I for one salute Rolex, it’s truly masterful what they’ve achieved through marketing and supply quotas. They’ve cultivated this brand in such a manner that it’s so impressive to see it explode the way it has over the past few years. We lose perspective though, we are blessed that this happened on our watch (pardon the pun). I mean that it’s happening now and we are witnessing it first hand. It’s only taken 116 years…, but things have changed positively for the brand. It was overdue in my humble opinion.

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[enjoythemusic]

Que Será, Será.........

Did you get your $1.2 billion this hour? Every hour $1.2b is being produced, be sure to get yours today!

[IamJacky]

Originally Posted by inadeje

I’ve listed a few examples of industries, services and retail environments in which this has been the case for DECADES. Anyone else care to provide more examples, services or products that coincide with this new Rolex reality? If only to bring back some sanity to TRF and underline why this current situation isn’t as abnormal as we incessantly or continuously keep reading.

I know of a Japanese silver jewelry brand named Goro's that was coveted among only enthusiasts back in the early 2000's and thanks to the internet it's become so sought after today that there's an entire economy based on its secondary market, similar to Rolex (though the brand is only mostly popular in Asia whereas Rolex is world-wide).

Goro's specializes in hand-made, Native-American inspired silver pieces, with the Eagle Feather as its iconic piece. All the pieces were originally solely hand crafted by its creator Goro Takahashi, the silver works are continued by his disciples after his passing in 2013.



Prior to the age of the internet and social media, Goro's were mostly revered by certain groups of enthusiasts/collectors who were "in the know" and appreciated the craft and style of the brand.

Goro's has a very, very strict/strange shopping policy. There is only one shop in the world that is in Tokyo Japan; they only allow a certain number of customers into their store (I think 5) at any given time; only those who waited in line and got the raffle number get to go in and only when they're called; they don't always have all the products available for sale, AND they have the final say if they want to sell the pieces to you.

Still, Goro's popularity continued to climb. In recent years, thanks to the exposure of social media and internet, the demand for their pieces have skyrocketed to unprecedented level.

Despite their increasing popularity, Goro's do not expand their business; they don't plan on ever opening a second branch store nor do they plan on increasing production of their pieces at all. In many ways it is quite similar to the Rolex phenomenon: the demand grew exponentially while supply remains low.

As a result, there is now an entire secondary market with dealers who specialize in reselling Goro's pieces at significant premiums for those who don't want to go through the near-impossible task of shopping at a Goro's store.

[Jack T]

The enhanced exclusivity of particular Ferrrari and Porsche models, or more restrictive access and membership qualifications at clubs and restaurants hasn’t quadrupled demand, brought hoards of wannabes out of the woodwork or created a huge aftermarket of resellers.

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by teck21

Yes, they are far more upmarket.

His point is that Rolex is moving upmarket.

My point is that many are currently either not cognizant or accepting of that.


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Sure they are, esp from a marketing (ie lack of inventory) perspective, but the product is no better than it was a decade ago. So reality is, they are not more “tangibly” upmarket than when an LN GMT could be had in the low 6’s brand new. At least the other brands mentioned actually deliver something for those dollars whether it be hand finishing, crazy movements etc. This is simply a case of a company being smart and consumers being naive as all hell.


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[stewester]

I suppose the difference is that the product (as a whole) hasn't changed. New models have been introduced of course, but conceptually most the Rolex range is the same or at least very similar to when things were far more 'normal' and they were possible to buy from authorised retailers. It's the selling practices and sentiment of the watch buying public that have changed.

It's a bit like a nightclub changing its entrance policy to become very exclusive but remaining the same in every other aspect. For the long time enthusiast it just seems a bit distasteful.

[Chester01]

Agreed but for those of us like myself in the game for decades, I don’t like being manipulated. The issue where these things are only attainable by oligarchs when they used to be available at army bases is sad, and from my vantage point distasteful. Rolex is quickly becoming synonymous with ostentatious displays of wealth and run away capitalism as its deep history of making watches that have survived the highest peaks, deepest depths, and hell of warfare fades into obscurity. Just sad really. Some may call it clever marketing and yes rolex os making bank, but it’s selling out.

[Aquinas]

Rolex isn't comparable with Ferrari. Rolex built and builds robust, reliable tool watches. A better comparison would be Toyota. And having to beg to get on a waiting list for a Camry would irritate quite a lot of people.